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13:38:51 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:38:52 <Zakim> Meeting: Publishing Steering Committee
13:39:02 <wendyreid> date: 2024-05-10
13:54:17 <wolfgang> wolfgang has joined #pbgsc
13:55:29 <wendyreid> chair: tzviya
14:00:06 <tzviya> regrets+ Rick, Cristina
14:00:19 <tzviya> Regrets+ Ivan
14:00:22 <tzviya> present+
14:00:39 <tzviya> Present+ George, Wolfgang, Graham
14:01:13 <Ralph> present+
14:01:30 <Ralph> regrets+ Daihei
14:01:32 <tzviya> regrets+ Daihei
14:01:38 <wolfgang> present+
14:03:08 <AvneeshSingh> AvneeshSingh has joined #pbgsc
14:03:12 <AvneeshSingh> present+
14:03:23 <liisamk> liisamk has joined #pbgsc
14:03:30 <liisamk> present+
14:04:46 <Ralph> present+ Paul_Belfanti
14:05:27 <Ralph> scribe+
14:05:34 <Bill_Kasdorf> Bill_Kasdorf has joined #pbgsc
14:06:00 <Bill_Kasdorf> present+
14:06:07 <paul_b> paul_b has joined #pbgsc
14:06:13 <Ralph> agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-publishing-sc/2024May/0002.html
14:06:14 <wendyreid> present+
14:06:17 <paul_b> present+
14:06:25 <Ralph> topic: Digital Publishing Summit May 31, 2024
14:06:38 <Ralph> George: EDRLab is doing a 1-day conference
14:06:46 <Ralph> ... I'm doing a short keynote
14:07:07 <Ralph> ... one thing I plan to say is that we've made huge strides in accessibility but there's still a long way to go
14:07:16 <Ralph> ... people still don't know what EPUB is, at least in higher ed
14:07:31 <tzviya> q+
14:07:33 <Ralph> ... people that take the time to learn about it love it but it's still second to PDF
14:07:43 <wendyreid> q+
14:07:46 <Ralph> ... there's a long way to go in adoption, understanding, and promotion
14:07:50 <leslie> leslie has joined #pbgsc
14:07:56 <tzviya> ack me
14:08:02 <Ralph> ... there are still a lot of features I see being developed in the CG and passed to reading systems
14:08:22 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:08:28 <Ralph> Tzviya: do you want the Steering Committee involvement?
14:08:33 <Ralph> George: I want promotion
14:08:54 <Ralph> ... Daisy is doing its part in the a11y community, particularly in higher ed
14:09:02 <Ralph> ... US and Canada work is going well
14:09:05 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:09:11 <Ralph> ... I don't know about Europe
14:09:38 <Ralph> Wendy: a problem I've heard, even as recently as a couple of months ago, speaking with people in Europe ...
14:09:55 <Ralph> ... had I heard about publishers' skepticism about EPUB3, borne by rendering issues
14:10:02 <liisamk> q+
14:10:09 <Ralph> ... I said I'd love to know what those issues are, as I'm not aware of them
14:10:10 <Bill_Kasdorf> q-
14:10:26 <Ralph> ... this relates to our efforts to get the industry to move from EPUB2 to EPUB3
14:10:32 <tzviya> q+ to mention a11y discussions about epub v pdf
14:10:43 <Ralph> ... if there is skepticism due to rendering issues, we need to know what those issues are
14:11:00 <tzviya> ack liisamk
14:11:02 <Ralph> ... I think we have answers to all but we need to know where the skepticism is coming from
14:11:41 <Ralph> Liisa: I'm hearing from colleagues in Europe not that there's skepticism; they know they will need to move to EPUB3 for a11y
14:11:49 <Ralph> ... but the issue is over updating catalogs
14:12:03 <Ralph> ... and the rendering of HTML is inconsistent across platforms
14:12:21 <Ralph> ... they don't have the resources to test across all platforms so they go to the lowest common denominator
14:12:33 <Ralph> George: epubtest.org is coming out with new tests
14:12:46 <Ralph> ... but this has nothing to do with HTML rendering
14:12:52 <Ralph> ... we have one SVG rendering test
14:12:57 <Ralph> ... and some MATHML tests
14:13:07 <wendyreid> q+
14:13:13 <Ralph> ... we could test HTML rendering across platforms
14:13:20 <Ralph> ... I know how much work is it to do a11y testing
14:13:25 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:13:30 <Ralph> ... we could do the rendering testing collectively
14:13:37 <wendyreid> q-
14:13:45 <Ralph> ... and get rendering agents acting properly
14:13:55 <tzviya> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa/2024May/0006.html
14:14:16 <Ralph> Tzviya: there was a discussion on the APA list; "a manifest for accessibility"
14:14:24 <Ralph> ... it had a lot of old and incorrect information
14:14:44 <Ralph> ... comparison with WCAG is not this group's issue
14:15:04 <Ralph> ... but let's be sure to tell everyone that we are up to speed with the most current version of WCAG
14:15:07 <tzviya> ack me
14:15:07 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to mention a11y discussions about epub v pdf
14:15:12 <Ralph> Avneesh: I'm working on that
14:15:25 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:15:29 <Ralph> ... scheduling some meetings
14:15:49 <Ralph> Bill: those insights are really important; it had not occurred to me that epubtest is a11y testing
14:15:53 <wendyreid> q+
14:16:02 <Ralph> ... if that could be expanded to include rendering, that would be very useful
14:16:11 <Ralph> ... but as George pointed out it's also a lot of work
14:16:27 <tzviya> ack we
14:16:31 <Ralph> ... my perception on the a11y question is that EPUB3 is how you get accessible ebooks
14:16:39 <Ralph> ... if that message is not getting across it's really terrible
14:16:49 <Ralph> Wendy: I'd caution against us trying to figure this out from our side
14:16:56 <Ralph> ... we don't know how people are building their books
14:17:09 <Ralph> ... we'd have to guess how every publisher is constructing their books
14:17:28 <Ralph> ... it's more useful to reach out to the various publishing associations and figure out their needs
14:17:38 <Bill_Kasdorf> Great points, Wendy, thanks!
14:17:46 <Ralph> ... from the perspective of having to test many publishers across the world, I've found some really wild things people are doing
14:17:56 <Ralph> ... it would be near impossible to replicate all of that
14:18:14 <Ralph> ... a lot of a11y in EPUB3 is highly dependent on the features of the platform
14:18:26 <Ralph> ... whether the platform is well-integrated with the operating system, etc.
14:18:41 <Ralph> ... it's better for us to find out what the problems are
14:18:45 <Ralph> Tzviya: +1
14:18:59 <Ralph> topic: Industry Workshop at TPAC in September (EAA and Publishing)
14:19:11 <Ralph> Tzviya: there was some discussion at the previous two meetings
14:19:22 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:19:31 <tzviya> ack AvneeshSingh
14:19:41 <Ralph> Avneesh: wondering about the scope
14:19:50 <Ralph> ... September TPAC will be in California
14:19:57 <wendyreid> q+
14:19:59 <Ralph> ... are we address concerns of the US market or of Europe?
14:20:11 <Ralph> ... I don't think W3C has many European publishers as members
14:20:17 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:20:23 <Ralph> ... I don't think we'd be successful at getting European publishers to this TPAC
14:20:30 <Ralph> Wendy: I talked about this with Ivan and Shinya
14:20:59 <Ralph> ... EAA is one topic we could talk about, but this would naturally focus on North American publishers
14:21:02 <tzviya> q+ to talk about larger scope of EAA on rest of web
14:21:14 <Ralph> ... instead, we could focus on what's next; what's the future of the digital publishing activity
14:21:37 <Ralph> ... with topics like scholarly publishing, what are the gaps, how do we further publication manifest
14:21:47 <Ralph> ... it may be easier to attract that audience to California
14:21:55 <liisamk> q+
14:21:58 <tzviya> ack me
14:21:58 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to talk about larger scope of EAA on rest of web
14:22:03 <Ralph> ... I do need to submit a request for space in a couple of weeks
14:22:30 <Ralph> Tzviya: another topic is to take advantage of being with other W3C groups and talking about EAA
14:22:46 <Ralph> ... W3C also has a ton of work on web payments; maybe a session on a11y and payment
14:22:54 <Ralph> ... talking about the tentacles of a11y
14:23:18 <Ralph> ... this would need to be coordinated with WAI; it wouldn't be specifically a "publishing" workshop
14:23:39 <tzviya> ack liisamk
14:23:43 <Ralph> ... talking about publishing, payments, and maybe other areas [of a11y[
14:23:47 <Ralph> s/y[/y]
14:24:00 <Ralph> Liisa: would we consider hybrid so Europeans could participate?
14:24:05 <Ralph> Tzviya: it will all be hybrid
14:24:18 <Ralph> ... I expect we'd have some of our community from Europe
14:24:44 <Ralph> Wendy: it's driven from publishing but it's a larger web concern
14:24:48 <Ralph> ... a multi-spec issue
14:25:03 <Ralph> ... it's something that I think multiple groups will have something to say
14:25:17 <Ralph> ... e.g. how text-to-speech works and could work
14:25:30 <Ralph> Leslie: for RS or for those who have specific solutions for ebooks?
14:25:53 <Ralph> Wendy: there's not a lot of understanding of how a TTS engine actually derives what it's going to say when reading a document
14:26:06 <Ralph> ... it's not formal standardization but documentation on best practices
14:26:20 <Ralph> ... so people building TTS engines can provide the best experiences
14:26:39 <Ralph> ... e.g. reading the alt text as well as the "visible" text
14:26:56 <Ralph> ... we'd have to talk with Kevin White to see what interest there is
14:27:07 <Ralph> George: I sent an invitation to the RS Testing group
14:27:25 <Ralph> ... Hadrian is a guest speaker this coming Tuesday to talk about his work on TTS
14:27:39 <Ralph> ... we're trying to get developers of read-aloud functions to come together
14:27:56 <Ralph> ... there are a lot of issues; how to present alt text, how to present MathML, etc.
14:28:06 <Ralph> ... many issues on how to provide a high-quality experience
14:28:16 <wendyreid> +1
14:28:17 <Ralph> Tzviya: should we try to pull together some kind of workshop at TPAC?
14:28:17 <Bill_Kasdorf> +1
14:28:17 <liisamk> +1 to doing something there
14:28:20 <tzviya> +1
14:28:50 <Ralph> Tzviya: anyone opposed?
14:28:53 <liisamk> I do not plan to be there
14:28:57 <Leslie> Leslie has joined #pbgsc
14:29:01 <wolfgang> +1 (but could not attend in person)
14:29:11 <Bill_Kasdorf> Unsure whether I'll be able to attend
14:29:21 <Leslie> Not attending
14:29:26 <Ralph> Tzviya: seems there is rough consensus to work on a workshop
14:29:38 <Ralph> ... I'm imagining a half-day
14:29:59 <Ralph> Graham: [on Zoom chat:] Not on IRC – yes to a workshop, but be wary that this is not an event that Europeans other than Gregorio, Christina take part in regularly
14:30:19 <Ralph> George: [on Zoom chat] will not be going
14:30:33 <Ralph> Tzviya: I'll work with Ivan, Kevin, and Ralph; does that make sense?
14:30:36 <Ralph> George: yes
14:30:54 <Ralph> Tzviya: in the past we've sent explicit invitations to people we think would be interested
14:31:00 <wendyreid> Q+
14:31:03 <Ralph> ... and also request fee waivers
14:31:13 <Ralph> ... we'll talk about topics
14:31:34 <Ralph> ... we need replacement leadership for the CG
14:31:52 <tzviya> ack wendyreid
14:31:55 <Ralph> ... as Wolfgang needs some time off
14:32:14 <Ralph> Wendy: it would be great to narrow down exactly what we want to do at the workshop
14:32:27 <Ralph> ... I'd like an idea of what direction we're heading more specifically
14:32:38 <graham> graham has joined #pbgsc
14:32:41 <liisamk> q+
14:32:47 <Ralph> George: what about holding a workshop at a place publishers would be coming?
14:32:52 <AvneeshSingh> +1
14:33:05 <Ralph> ... we used to hold sessions at BEA
14:33:14 <Ralph> ... I think BookWorld is still happening
14:33:21 <tzviya> ack liisamk
14:33:49 <Ralph> Liisa: Cristina and I have been talking about a Pub BG meeting in June to bring together folks who are looking at some of the rendering and testing challenges
14:33:56 <Ralph> ... to see if we can start to collect some of that
14:34:20 <tzviya> q+
14:34:22 <Ralph> ... also, Leslie and I have been talking about what we discussed at the previous meeting; doing a listening tour to hear what other groups are talking about
14:34:28 <Leslie> q+
14:34:30 <Ralph> ... and maybe a co-branded event with BISG
14:34:31 <tzviya> ack me
14:34:37 <Ralph> Tzviya: I think working with BISG is a great idea
14:34:40 <AvneeshSingh> +1 Lisa
14:35:00 <Ralph> ... BookWorld and Frankfurt/London Book Fair tend to attract sales execs
14:35:18 <Ralph> ... co-locating with DBW may not be effective
14:35:29 <Ralph> ... but working with BISG would be a really good idea
14:35:44 <AvneeshSingh> q+
14:35:56 <Ralph> ... I'm not sure working on rendering issues is worth our time unless the RS folk are fully on board
14:36:04 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:36:08 <Ralph> ... we should focus on what problems we can solve
14:36:19 <Ralph> ... everyone's rendering issues are going to be different
14:36:20 <tzviya> ack Leslie
14:36:26 <liisamk> I am not as defeatist as you are
14:36:48 <graham> Agreed Frankfurt and London are events focussed on the rights trade. There is a small and dedicated attendance from metadata people because of the mini-conferences we (EDItEUR) run – but that maybe 50 people, some of whom fly in for the day
14:36:53 <Ralph> Leslie: I'm feeling that 15 years ago we had active conversations in the Digital Issues Working Group of the AAP
14:37:09 <Ralph> ... it was an opportunity to talk about the issues of the day, and have a forum for conversation
14:37:11 <graham> They aren't 'e-book people' necessarily though.
14:37:19 <Ralph> ... that won't happen at TPAC; we need to go to where the publishers are
14:37:28 <Ralph> ... we can have a role in encouraging those conversations
14:37:42 <Ralph> ... we can do that with the UK Publishers Association as well
14:38:20 <Ralph> ... AAP does not function in the same way [as 15 years ago] so we can't have the Digital Issues discussion there
14:38:25 <Ralph> ... but we could reach out to BISG
14:38:34 <Ralph> ... get input from the publishers and community about the issues
14:38:42 <Ralph> ... and have conversations about whatever the issue of the day is
14:38:48 <tzviya> q?
14:38:51 <tzviya> ack AvneeshSingh
14:39:18 <Ralph> Avneesh: summing up; I'd say merging the IDPF Board into the Publishing Steering Committee is a very good idea
14:39:31 <Ralph> ... we should focus on issues that need cross-pollination with the W3C community
14:39:31 <graham> The UK PA is a much more politically-focussed organisation now. It has hived off our most active technical committee/working group, the PAAG. However, PAAG remains very active in a largely independent way
14:39:50 <Ralph> ... this group should drive all the things Leslie and Liisa mentioned
14:40:05 <Ralph> ... this group should coordinate the separate communities, not try to merge them
14:40:19 <tzviya> ack bi
14:40:21 <Ralph> ... focus on what needs cross-pollination and reach out to the publishing community where it is
14:40:30 <Ralph> Bill: I'm fully supportive of a BISG connection
14:40:46 <Ralph> ... a lot of this discussion has been book-focused
14:40:57 <Ralph> ... in other areas, such as scholarly publishing, books are no longer the focus
14:41:09 <Ralph> ... university presses all routinely do EPUB3 and focus on a11y
14:41:24 <Ralph> ... those are easy; they have fixed layout, etc.
14:41:38 <Ralph> ... in scholarly they have journals and platforms; those are not the book issues
14:41:56 <Ralph> ... in choosing to focus on books we won't have interest from the scholarly community
14:42:03 <Ralph> Tzviya: I think we realize we have a book focus
14:42:14 <Ralph> ... we can reach out to organizations such as Learning Ally
14:42:30 <Ralph> ... we've reached out to Scholarly and they haven't been interested
14:42:42 <Ralph> ... how we tap into higher ed is a good question
14:42:52 <graham> q
14:42:53 <tzviya> q?
14:42:54 <Ralph> ... I look forward to hearing how the conversation with Brian@BISG goes
14:43:03 <Ralph> George: BISG is very interested in a11y metadata
14:43:04 <wendyreid> q+ graham
14:43:08 <Ralph> ... I've been attending their meetings
14:43:30 <tzviya> ack graham
14:44:05 <Ralph> Graham: Bill is correct; organizations such as BISG are great places to look for collaboration but don't just focus on BISG; there are similar organizations in other countries, such as AIE in Italy
14:44:17 <Ralph> ... the difficulty will be finding the right departments / right people in those organizations
14:44:34 <Ralph> ... one needs to look wider than only BISG
14:44:36 <liisamk>  q+
14:44:42 <Ralph> ... the net needs to be cast widely
14:44:43 <Bill_Kasdorf> BISG is definitely US focused; BookNet Canada is the rest of North America
14:45:03 <Ralph> ... by analogy, on the metadata side we deal with roughly 15 organizations
14:45:08 <Ralph> ... that takes a lot of effort
14:45:13 <Leslie> q+
14:45:19 <Ralph> Tzviya: I guess we do need to define our goals
14:45:26 <tzviya> ack liisamk
14:45:54 <Ralph> Liisa: nobody is suggesting BISG is the only place to go; we suggested a listening tour to get feedback from many organizations
14:46:08 <tzviya> q+ to ask how we involve these groups instead of just interview
14:46:11 <Ralph> ... and pull together an idea of what people around the world need, where they are thinking we should go next
14:46:22 <Ralph> ... whether a standard we already have, or a standard with a missing piece
14:46:33 <Ralph> ... I don't think we have a good connection to what people want and need right now
14:46:48 <tzviya> ack Leslie
14:46:54 <Ralph> ... there may not be long-term coordination with all these organizations but we should start with some outreach
14:46:58 <Bill_Kasdorf> Audiobooks and manga/comics are definitely within the "book" scope.
14:47:10 <Ralph> Leslie: you all are looking for onramps; what standards people need
14:47:30 <Ralph> ... I come from a different place: there are ways now to convey an AI opt-out
14:47:41 <Ralph> ... the standards work has been done by the CG and by Editeur
14:47:54 <Ralph> ... but there's still work to sell this to the publishers to use
14:48:20 <Ralph> ... we used to have a forum to have the conversation about what this is, why you want to do it
14:48:23 <Ralph> ... that's missing
14:48:33 <Bill_Kasdorf> q+
14:48:40 <Ralph> ... Cristina is going around Europe to advise
14:48:53 <Ralph> ... but nobody is doing that in the US
14:49:03 <Ralph> ... I'm looking to encourage those conversations
14:49:21 <Ralph> ... not just in the specific AI conversation, but it would also be a place to answer concerns about EPUB3
14:49:30 <Ralph> ... without those fora things are left to fester
14:49:43 <Ralph> George: I have a question about leadership of the steering committee
14:50:05 <Ralph> ... it would be great to have someone who is not a W3C veteran; somebody in publishing who has their finger on the pulse of publishing today
14:50:20 <Ralph> ... and more independent of W3C; we tend to see things through a W3C lens
14:50:24 <tzviya> ack me
14:50:24 <Zakim> tzviya, you wanted to ask how we involve these groups instead of just interview
14:50:58 <Ralph> ... the IDPF Board has some business to do; one question is who from that Board could help chair this steering committee
14:51:01 <Ralph> Tzviya: +1
14:51:10 <Ralph> ... I completely agree with Leslie
14:51:25 <Ralph> ... we had a network of organizations plugged into the standards work and doing evangelism
14:51:44 <Ralph> ... it was small scale but for those organizations involved it was very important
14:52:06 <Ralph> ... we had lots of different perpsectives
14:52:14 <Ralph> ... it's about plugging everyone in
14:52:30 <Ralph> ... it's a great idea to work with other publishing associations around the world but we need to have a way for them to follow up
14:52:42 <tzviya> ack Bill_Kasdorf
14:52:45 <graham> This app note on the subject of AI and AI outputs https://www.editeur.org/files/ONIX%203/APPNOTE%20Aspects%20of%20AI%20in%20ONIX.pdf has been one of our most downloaded app notes over the last couple of months. It references the W3C TPMrep protocol as part of process of 'opting out'. But it's Europe-only of course
14:52:46 <Ralph> ... we need to figure out how to allow people to participate without paying a membership fee
14:53:08 <Ralph> Bill: a large constituency who are very book-focused and not often in the conversation is libraries
14:53:20 <Ralph> ... we've involved some of them a bit in a11y metadata, particularly in MARC records
14:53:39 <Ralph> ... I've observed often over the years that librarians tend to have a more technical staff than most publishers
14:53:42 <graham> q+
14:53:44 <Ralph> ... libraries can be very useful
14:53:48 <tzviya> ack graham
14:53:51 <Ralph> George: very good point
14:54:02 <Ralph> Graham: you're talking specifically about academic libraries
14:54:19 <Ralph> ... public libraries do not have those technical people and are getting rapidly hollowed-out
14:54:25 <Ralph> Bill: yes
14:54:49 <Ralph> Tzviya: is the goal to talk about the goals of each of those sectors or to involve them in the work?
14:54:54 <liisamk> q+
14:55:06 <tzviya> ack liisamk
14:55:08 <Ralph> Bill: libraries are very concerned about the accessibility of their resources
14:55:18 <Ralph> ... they manage the resources but cannot make them accessible
14:55:35 <Ralph> Liisa: we probably need to stabilize the core before we expand
14:55:50 <Ralph> ... we need leadership, more involvement, bring people together, figure out what we're doing next
14:55:57 <Ralph> ... settle some of that and then look outward
14:56:18 <Ralph> Tzviya: the biggest action item seems to be to talk with Brian@BISG
14:56:34 <Ralph> ... is there someone who will reach out the the British Publishing Association?
14:57:05 <Bill_Kasdorf> The PAAG--Publishing Accessibility Action Group--is very important
14:57:31 <Ralph> ... is there someone who will reach out the the UK Publishing Association?
14:57:31 <Ralph> Graham: PAAG may be a better organization in the UK
14:57:31 <Ralph> ... I take BIC as a given, but it doesn't have a working group specifically looking at this
14:57:43 <Ralph> ... I will talk with them
14:57:48 <Bill_Kasdorf> PAAG is UK but has non-UK members
14:57:52 <Ralph> Wendy: BIC is the British BISG
14:57:59 <Ralph> ... and I can reach out to Booknet Canada
14:58:08 <wolfgang> q+
14:58:12 <Ralph> ... I still know some people in @@
14:58:16 <tzviya> ack wolfgang
14:58:22 <Ralph> Liisa: and the JPA
14:58:24 <wendyreid> s/@@/Boersenverein/
14:58:46 <Ralph> Wolfgang: I know the person at Boersenverein who is focused on digital publishing
14:59:01 <Ralph> Leslie: Liisa and I can come up with a proposed template for the conversation
14:59:10 <Ralph> Tzviya: that would be fantastic
14:59:26 <Ralph> Graham: we often have an informal meeting with Booknet Canada, BISG, and Editeur
14:59:41 <Ralph> ... I'd be happy to raise this in our fortnightly informal meeting
14:59:44 <Ralph> Wendy: that would be great
15:00:00 <Ralph> Tzviya: Wendy and I will schedule a separate meeting to talk about a workshop or "salon" at TPAC
15:00:13 <Ralph> Graham: it would be helpful to have 3 bullet points for what we want from those meetings
15:00:20 <Ralph> topic: next meeting
15:00:33 <Ralph> Tzviya: next call is scheduled for 14 June
15:00:45 <Ralph> [adjourned]
15:00:47 <Ralph> zakim, end meeting
15:00:47 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been tzviya, George, Wolfgang, Graham, Ralph, AvneeshSingh, liisamk, Paul_Belfanti, Bill_Kasdorf, wendyreid, paul_b
15:00:50 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2
15:00:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/10-pbgsc-minutes.html Zakim
15:00:58 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Ralph; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:00:58 <Zakim> Zakim has left #pbgsc
15:01:20 <graham> graham has left #pbgsc
15:01:35 <Ralph> i|date:|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/05/01-pbgsc-minutes.html previous 1-May
15:02:16 <Ralph> present+ Leslie_Hulse
15:02:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/10-pbgsc-minutes.html Ralph
15:03:18 <Ralph> rrsagent, bye
15:03:18 <RRSAgent> I see no action items