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10:35:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
10:35:48 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
10:38:03 <Lisa> scribe: Jan
10:39:40 <Lisa> agenda+ change in timeline. see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit
10:40:18 <Lisa> Coordinating editors draft for issue papers . see https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.v7hk8nwe43hs
10:40:38 <Lisa> agenda + EA action item ?
10:40:53 <Lisa> Agenda+ Coordinating editors draft for issue papers . see https://docs.google.com/document/d/15HtPkkYx1CIl6bAwP2nsSZKhqTVbqcuMDRz5RmtmvXg/edit#heading=h.v7hk8nwe43hs
10:41:12 <Lisa> agenda+ Thursdays at 4 there is a working github call (bi-weekly)
10:41:24 <Lisa> agenda+ Color patern https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CeqiSy3tVDoeBzCG8LpkyFT1fvugGk86JuT6NvfSiAA/edit
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14:49:54 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/05/06-coga-irc
14:49:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:49:58 <Zakim> Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
14:50:04 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:50:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/06-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:50:34 <Lisa> scribe: Jan
14:58:06 <Lisa> q?
14:58:22 <Lisa> present+
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15:02:58 <Lisa> scribe+ Justine, Jan
15:03:14 <rashmi> present+
15:03:32 <Lisa> next item
15:03:39 <Lisa> scribe+ Justine, Jan, Rain
15:04:02 <JeanneEC> present+
15:04:12 <Lisa> see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit
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15:04:25 <Justine> Lisa: Agenda item 1 - Looking at timelines
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15:05:56 <Justine> ... Deliverables: Making Content Usable, update key research papers. I moved Phase 1 which was targeted for end of April.
15:07:27 <Justine> ...Phase 1 now moved to end of July
15:08:01 <Justine> ...Issue papers will have working drafts in September
15:08:22 <Lisa> q?
15:08:40 <Lisa> are we ok with new timelines
15:08:43 <julierawe> +1
15:08:46 <Rain> +1
15:09:01 <Justine> +1
15:09:02 <Lisa> +1
15:09:14 <Lisa> any objections
15:09:15 <Justine> Lisa: This new timeline gives us some breathing room.
15:10:10 <Justine> ...I think we'll end up with better results at the end of the year.
15:10:26 <Lisa> next item
15:10:36 <Lisa> close item 2
15:10:49 <Lisa> next item 3
15:11:12 <Lisa> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit
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15:11:44 <Justine> Lisa: Recaps beginning of meeting and agenda for today.
15:11:54 <JMcSorley> present+ JMcSorley
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15:12:17 <rashmi> present+
15:12:22 <JMcSorley> scribe+ Jan
15:12:56 <JMcSorley> Changed the timelines a bit - we are hoping to get the editor's draft of issue papers a little earlier than we had originally thought.
15:14:31 <JMcSorley> The action items include supported decision making, which will need to be revisited when Becca is available. We have one issue paper that is already in and two more that are close: Way Finding and Safety
15:15:34 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Would love to have Supported Decision making in the editor's draft - do people feel they can make their contributions to Supported Decision Making by the end of May so that we can get it moved to GitHub?
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15:17:20 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Should we go ahead and put this into GitHub with editor's note
15:17:33 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Could we stretch the timeline by about one week?
15:17:44 <JMcSorley> Lisa: That sounds doable
15:18:30 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Janina has asked for the end of this week to make sure that she's comfortable with the structure in GitHub - right now it's in a branch.
15:18:30 <Lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/index.html
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15:19:42 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We don't have an introduction, but we have a note that we will add one; we have modules, and  I think we can add safety. Older issue papers are in a separate section.
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15:20:15 <Lisa> https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/Conversational-Voice-Systems.html
15:20:41 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Please review the link provided and let us know if you have any concerns. We also need to look at conversational voice systems - not so much the content, but everything around the content - is the structure okay?
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15:22:17 <Lisa> 1 st august as review date for Cognitive Accessibility Issue Papers - Conversational Voice Systems?
15:22:42 <Lisa> any feedback on stucture: by end the week on https://raw.githack.com/w3c/coga/issue-papers-v2/issue-papers/Conversational-Voice-Systems.html
15:22:53 <JMcSorley> Lisa: I suggest the end of July or first of August for feedback on Conversational Voice Systems - look it over and give feedback on the structure by the end of this week, but on the content by the first of August.
15:23:33 <JMcSorley> Lisa: If I can get feedback on the structure by May 10, 2024, then I could move those structural suggestions to our other issue papers.
15:23:45 <rashmi> q+
15:24:08 <Lisa> ack next
15:24:08 <JMcSorley> Lisa: just feedback on the structure and wrapping on Conversational Voice Systems by May 10, 2024.
15:24:24 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: How do we give feedback on Conversational Voice Systems?
15:25:04 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We had this as a Google Doc for a long time, but now it's in GitHub. I would say that providing an email would be okay.
15:25:16 <kirkwood> present+
15:25:50 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Please make sure that the email subject line says "Comment on Conversational Voice Systems" so that it's easy to track
15:26:10 <Lisa> next item
15:26:20 <Lisa> close item 3
15:26:22 <Lisa> next item
15:27:29 <julierawe> Please add me to next Thursday's Github meeting, thanks
15:27:39 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Anyone who is editing in GitHub, we are having a call every other Thursday at 9:00 a.m. EST / 4:00 p.m. Israel - we are doing this to support each other while we make changes in GitHub.
15:28:10 <JMcSorley> Julie: Is it from this coming Thursday or a week from this Thursday?
15:28:35 <JMcSorley> Lisa: It's a week from this Thursday - May 16th.
15:30:04 <Lisa> editorial list https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/task-forces/coga/wiki/List_for_final_edit#General_editorial
15:30:40 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Frankie took an action item and we were thinking Julie might want to join in: when people are making a change and we've agreed to add something like a bullet point, the editing of the document is painful and it's a big document - we want to make sure that they check against the guide we have so that it's consistent across the document. We
15:30:40 <JMcSorley> need to be consistent throughout the document. We have a list that we did for the final edit. There's an older editorial list, but it's difficult to follow. WAI also has its own editor's guide.
15:30:45 <Lisa> wai style guide https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Style
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15:31:28 <JMcSorley> Lisa: What Frankie was going to do was put a list in the General Editorial suggestions so that people could follow those suggestions.
15:32:25 <Frankie> The Google Doc link: https://docs.google.com/document/d/18rqamyGgYF1DAUHLhsXmR20FtN9AQSaPc9zpFNN1xgM/edit
15:33:53 <JMcSorley> Lisa: At the time we made the General Editorial recommendations, we may not have quantified it well. We also want to add things from the WAI style guide, but we need to make sure that it does not conflict with Content Usable recommendations. Where something isn't specified in our editorial list, but is in the WAI style guide, we may want to add it,
15:33:53 <JMcSorley> but we just need to make sure that the recommendation does not conflict with Content Usable. That is the job - we were wondering if Julie wanted to participate and we need to highlight any suggested changes so that we can discuss and agree on final styles we will use.
15:35:38 <JMcSorley> Julie: Yes, this is something I need to learn how to do, so I am happy to work with Frankie on the General Editorial checklist so that it looks like the same person has done the writing.
15:35:47 <JMcSorley> Lisa: When do you think we can have a draft?
15:36:00 <JMcSorley> Frankie: Can Julie and I talk and get back to you later this week?
15:36:34 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Yes, it's hard to move forward without this guidance, so the sooner we have a checklist - even a draft checklist, the better.
15:36:38 <Lisa> q?
15:36:46 <Lisa> next item
15:37:18 <JMcSorley> Lisa: the rest of the call is to discuss the new color pattern.
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15:38:47 <JMcSorley> Lisa: we reviewed a lot of research, but this is a difficult concept because there are different cultural norms - we think we need more research, so we're hoping that maybe John K could add some additional research.
15:39:06 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We don't want to be specific in a way that won't work cross-culturally or with different types of content.
15:39:43 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: The pattern name would be use color to aid orientation and focus - this will help orient users
15:40:12 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: this will help with focus and support people with working memory difficulties
15:40:39 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: we should use limited colors to avoid cognitive overload - use color to identify main content
15:40:59 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Color can affect emotions - don't use colors that can increase anxiety
15:41:12 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: This needs more review and research
15:41:32 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Color can help users orient themselves and can help with way finding
15:41:53 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Color can help understand visual hierarchy.
15:42:07 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Can help users focus on tasks.
15:42:27 <Lisa> q?
15:42:38 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: Can help users find key content, such as safety warnings
15:43:03 <JMcSorley> Rashmi: There needs to be other visual queues other than color
15:43:40 <kirkwood> q+
15:43:46 <Rain> q+
15:43:59 <Lisa> ack next
15:44:38 <JMcSorley> John: This is great, but I think we're missing one key concept: findability
15:44:39 <Rain> +1 to adding find-ability (John's note)
15:45:24 <JMcSorley> Lisa: Do we want that in the title, in the text, or as a bullet point?
15:45:40 <kirkwood> just “Findability is the ease with which information contained on a website can be found”
15:47:12 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We have patterns on findability, but have not used that word. Do we want to define findability here or in a different pattern?
15:48:53 <JMcSorley> Lisa: I think we should define "findability" under our patterns for finding that we already have.
15:49:43 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We have 2 patterns related to finding content, but in the pattern on color, mention that we use color to help people find things, but then define what we mean by that.
15:50:02 <JMcSorley> John: Use color to increase the finability of things - I think it's important to use that term.
15:50:16 <JMcSorley> *findability*
15:50:21 <Lisa> Findability is the ease with which information contained on a website can be found
15:50:41 <Lisa> simpler option: Use color to help users find the content they are looking for or need.
15:50:58 <Rain> +1 to using the plain language version
15:51:00 <kirkwood> i like findability ;)
15:51:03 <JMcSorley> Please vote: option 1 - use the term findability and have to define it, or option 2, the simpler option
15:51:14 <kirkwood> +1
15:51:20 <Rain> +1
15:51:49 <JMcSorley> +1 - combining findability in parentheses after the simpler language
15:52:21 <kirkwood> +1 - combining findability in parentheses after the simpler language
15:52:46 <Lisa> ack next
15:54:18 <JMcSorley> Rain: I love this - there are so many reasons for helping people understand the use of color. It also extends to experiences of low vision. I am concerned as a UX designer and someone who manages UX designers - I am worried that a designer might be overwhelmed and lost on how to do this. It might negate itself with the way it's written. It's fine
15:54:18 <JMcSorley> as an educational piece, but not very clear as a pattern.
15:54:51 <JMcSorley> Rain: we need to find a way to make it actionable - go through each of the bits and think through how a designer can use this.
15:55:26 <tburtin> +1 Rain
15:55:29 <JMcSorley> Rain: for example, using different colors for different sections is helpful, but other sections are less quantifiable.
15:56:22 <JMcSorley> Rain: we should avoid making suggestions of specific colors because colors mean different things to different people - there may need to be some guidance for considering localization and considering personalization.
15:57:42 <kirkwood> +1 to Rain,  & all points  … wondering could language include to highlight critical information? prioritized information?
15:58:03 <JMcSorley> Lisa: these are parts of the reason that we need a huge amount of research to backup more quantifiable recommendations; I did not see clear research that gave us guidance on what to do. I understand the need, but without the research, we a a little stuck.
15:58:29 <JMcSorley> Rain: This is definitely a tricky one, but I think we need to give this more thought to how to make this more practical for designers.
15:58:58 <tburtin> q+
15:59:07 <Lisa> ack next
15:59:15 <JMcSorley> Lisa: My fear is that we don't have the backup research. I hear what you're saying. I can give this a shot at reworking this, but I am not a designer, so I hesitate to take that on.
15:59:42 <JMcSorley> Tiffany - I agree with Rain; I am a designer. Maybe we can do a working session after GAAD - maybe late May / early June.
15:59:56 <kirkwood> +1 to working session
15:59:59 <Rain> +1 to working session
16:00:10 <JMcSorley> Lisa: There are 2 ways to move forward: (1) Working session; (2) Have a designer like Rain or Tiffany.
16:00:24 <tburtin> I'm presenting for GAAD so I'm unavailable till then.
16:00:44 <JMcSorley> Lisa: We will do a working session, but late May / early June means that this pattern will be in the second working draft.
16:01:32 <Rain> +1 to June 6 at proposed time
16:01:38 <JMcSorley> Lisa: I think we will do the first Thursday in June for this working session - an hour before our regularly scheduled COGA subgroup calls. June 6th.
16:01:38 <kirkwood> +1
16:02:03 <JMcSorley> Lisa: June 6, 2024 - 10 Eastern for a working session
16:02:11 <JMcSorley> Tiffany: I think I can make that work.
16:02:17 <Lisa> 10 easten
16:02:42 <JMcSorley> Lisa: John, Rain, and Tiffany can all be there at 10:00 EST, June 6th
16:02:45 <Lisa> RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:02:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/05/06-coga-minutes.html Lisa
16:05:04 <tburtin> I forgot to present +
16:05:08 <tburtin> present+
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