17:58:51 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:58:55 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/30-aria-apg-irc 17:58:55 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:58:56 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:59:18 present+ 18:01:26 Jem has joined #aria-apg 18:02:01 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/30-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 18:02:42 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practice Guide 18:02:45 jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg 18:02:58 present+ 18:03:09 present+ jugglinmike 18:03:15 howard-e has joined #aria-apg 18:03:15 arigilmore has joined #aria-apg 18:03:18 present+ 18:03:20 Zakim, start the meeting 18:03:20 RRSAgent, make logs Public 18:03:22 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 18:03:42 present+ 18:03:45 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force Weekly Teleconference 18:04:19 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:04:52 CurtBellew has joined #aria-apg 18:04:53 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-30%2C-2024-Agenda 18:07:27 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:07:33 Jem: Next meeting will be May 8th 18:07:38 Jem: Any requests for changes? 18:07:44 present+ 18:07:48 Jem: Hearing none, we'll move on 18:07:48 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/31 18:08:00 Topic: Publication status 18:08:09 Jem: next publication date: May 7 18:08:32 Matt_King: We pushed this back due to Access U and Shawn's availability 18:10:17 Matt_King: I don't know if we can get this all done by next week 18:10:25 present+ siri 18:10:46 Matt_King: Shawn did say that we could publish later in the week next week, if necessary 18:11:01 Matt_King: I guess we'll have to decide later in this week if we'll be ready on May 7 18:11:10 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:11:34 Matt_King: We could push back to May 21. I was hoping to avoid that because I wanted to get a new release in before Global Accessibility Awareness Day (GAD)... 18:11:55 Matt_King: ...but I haven't even started the blog post which would support that, so maybe it's already too late for that 18:12:02 Topic: Feed example update 18:12:11 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775 18:12:24 Matt_King: While testing, I was running into trouble with CTRL+End 18:13:01 Matt_King: Right now, since the CTRL+End is specifically targetting the delay slider, it's moving focus to before the feed instead of after the feed 18:13:30 arigilmore: Instead of the "terms of use" button? We added that button so there was somewhere else to go 18:14:04 Matt_King: Ah, I didn't realize that we had added that. That actually makes the problem simpler to solve than I thought! 18:14:26 Matt_King: Putting the focus there would enable that CTRL+End key to work whether its in CodePen or not 18:14:58 Matt_King: Oh, we don't have CodePen on this one 18:15:11 Matt_King: I don't know if we can. We don't have to make that part of this pull request, though 18:15:22 Jem: I can open an issue about adding CodePen to this page. 18:15:43 Matt_King: That CTRL+End behavior was the only problem that I had found 18:16:17 arigilmore: I'm not sure how much work it will take to fix that. I thought it was working a while ago; I haven't looked in some time, so I wonder if something broke recently 18:17:09 arigilmore: There is a regression test. In my "feed" test changes, it checks for the "CTRL+End" keys 18:17:48 Matt_King: CTRL+End is clearly taking me to the "delay" selector 18:17:55 arigilmore: Okay, I'll take a look 18:18:46 Matt_King: We probably need to merge the "main" branch into this branch for these tests to pass 18:19:00 arigilmore: The pull request branch is already up-to-date 18:19:34 present+ howard-e 18:20:22 arigilmore: Maybe I have to run the coverage report locally and update it myself 18:20:34 howard-e: That seems to be the case, but I'm not understanding why you have to do that... 18:21:36 howard-e: The regression in the other failing test is, I think, something I've been seeing recently. I attempted to fix it in a patch I pushed yesterday 18:21:58 howard-e: Alex is reviewing that fix, now 18:22:22 Matt_King: If arigilmore can figure out what's going on with CTRL+End, then I think this is ready for merge 18:22:50 Matt_King: I'm excited to get "feed" moving again. I think there are more steps for feed 18:23:05 Topic: Update to AT Support tables 18:23:17 https://deploy-preview-317--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/patterns/radio/examples/radio-activedescendant/ 18:24:06 Matt_King: If you look at the current "radio button" example in production and compare it to this one, the AT support tables (the section right after "roles states and properties"), the differences you'll find... 18:24:14 Matt_King: Previously we had ATs in the rows 18:24:56 Matt_King: Now, so that we can show more data for each combination, the first column is the combination of the screen reader and browser. The second column is for the percentage of passing "must" behavior, and the third column is for the percentage of passing "should" behaviors 18:25:23 Matt_King: We're going to add a link to a page explaining these columns (that's the next item in today's agenda), but before we go there 18:25:41 Matt_King: ...I have two bits of feedback: about the column names and about the number of rows in the table 18:26:25 Matt_King: On the column names, it says "must assertion priority". That's technically correct, but I think a name like "must behaviors" (and, correspondingly, "should behaviors") will be more understandable 18:26:42 Jem: I like that 18:28:43 Siri: even with that change, I have to go back and read what they mean? 18:28:58 present+ 18:30:00 Matt_King: "Must" behaviors are the ones that are required for the thing to be usable at all. "Should" behaviors are those whose absence would not prevent operation 18:32:29 siri: Usually, radio buttons, once you select one, you cannot unselect it 18:32:44 Matt_King: there is no support for unselecting a radio button without selecting another. That's built into the pattern 18:32:57 Matt_King: Although that's not related to anything in AT support 18:33:48 Jem: Do you have an analogy for these terms? 18:34:17 Matt_King: We're going to have a separate page to explain them 18:36:04 jugglinmike: The report page uses "MUST HAVE behaviors" and "SHOULD HAVE behaviors" 18:36:31 Matt_King: We can use those here, too, or we can change the report page to use "MUST behaviors" and "SHOULD behaviors" 18:37:55 jugglinmike: I prefer "MUST HAVE behaviors" instead of "MUST behaviors" because the word "MUST" is not an adjective, and I think that can make it harder for new folks to parse a name like "MUST behaviors" 18:38:01 CurtBellew: I agree 18:38:05 Matt_King: Sounds good 18:38:59 Matt_King: Now for the row order, they don't appear to be in any discernible order right now 18:39:14 Matt_King: I propose sorting them alphabetically 18:39:24 howard-e: We can do that, no problem 18:40:18 Matt_King: We're going to add a link to a page. I don't know the text of the link, yet--something like "learn more about assistive technology support". Something about how to understand this data 18:40:37 Matt_King: Whatever the text, should the link appear above or below the table? 18:42:16 Matt_King: There's an iframe which includes the table and the two associated buttons 18:42:39 Matt_King: The link would either go after the buttons or before the warning 18:43:18 Jem: Can you summarize the content that you are expecting to appear in this new explanatory page? 18:43:45 Matt_King: The next link in the agenda has a preview of the page https://deploy-preview-318--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/about/ 18:44:03 Matt_King: It includes a heading named "Assistive Technology Support tables" 18:44:16 Matt_King: If you follow that link, you'll find a placeholder page 18:44:48 Jem: I vote for "above" the table 18:45:05 howard-e: Me too; I like to be briefed on what something is before I see it 18:45:29 arigilmore: I feel the same 18:48:50 https://deploy-preview-313--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/live-regions/ 18:48:51 Topic: Adding a Live regions practice page 18:48:59 https://deploy-preview-313--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/live-regions/ 18:49:48 Matt_King: This page about live regions is a few years old 18:50:00 Matt_King: Simon drafted it, and it was intended to be a starting point for discussion 18:50:16 Matt_King: We never got very far with it because there were so many different problems with live regions 18:50:41 Matt_King: Now, the Web Platform Tests browser interoperability for accessibility project is taking up issues with live regions 18:50:52 Matt_King: So it's a good time for this group to work on getting live regions done 18:51:10 Matt_King: As I read through this, I've been thinking about the things that need to be covered and how they need to be covered 18:51:25 Matt_King: So I'm particularly interested in hearing how folks here think this needs to be changed 18:51:46 Matt_King: You can add comments in the pull request; I just thought it would be easier for folks to read the current proposal by visiting the preview 18:52:06 Matt_King: For one, I don't think if an error and a chat log message are the best examples 18:52:23 Matt_King: Do folks here think we might want to maybe highlight other kinds of examples? 18:53:09 Jem: Why don't we add our comments to this pull request, also responding to the question you raised 18:53:14 Matt_King: That would be great 18:53:34 Jem: I'll assign it to everyone here on the call today. Any objections? 18:53:44 CurtBellew: Sounds good 18:54:25 Matt_King: I'm curious about the content at a high level. Right now, I'm not interested in fixing editorial issues like spelling and grammar 18:55:13 Matt_King: For instance, when it says "chat log", I think it maybe be confusing because I don't think anyone uses the "log" role because it typically doesn't do a good job of only communicating the changes that need to be communicated. 18:55:29 Matt_King: Maybe just "chat" or "chat message", for instance 18:56:03 s/"chat" or "chat message"/"chat messages"/ 18:56:18 Matt_King: Has anyone ever seen the "log" role used well? 18:56:20 Jem: Not me 18:58:37 Matt_King: I think the section titled "triggering live regions" should probably be level 2 instead of a sub-section 18:58:52 Matt_King: It isn't a live region state or property, so it shouldn't be a sub-section 18:59:24 Matt_King: And that sub-section (that is, "Triggering live regions") is probably the one that needs the most work 18:59:37 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:59:48 Jem: I know of a video by Sarah which may be relevant 19:00:52 Matt_King: If anyone wants to share some good references on the topic (either in the issue or the pull request) then we could use them as a basis for a summary 19:01:53 Zakim, end the meeting 19:01:53 As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, Jem, jugglinmike, howard-e, arigilmore, CurtBellew, siri 19:01:55 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 19:01:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/30-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:02:03 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:02:03 RRSAgent, leave 19:02:03 I see no action items 19:02:03 Zakim has left #aria-apg