12:01:11 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:01:15 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/24-wot-irc 12:01:30 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 12:01:40 present+ Mahda_Noura 12:01:49 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Koster 12:02:34 mjk has joined #wot 12:02:53 present+ David_Ezell 12:03:39 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#24_April_2024 12:05:08 present+ Ege_Korkan 12:06:59 dape has joined #wot 12:07:10 ktoumura has joined #wot 12:07:12 Tomo has joined #wot 12:08:00 present+ Daniel_Peintner, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima 12:08:06 rrsagent, make log public 12:08:11 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:08:12 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/24-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:08:20 regrets+ Sebastian 12:08:50 chair: McCool, Koster 12:09:47 present+ Michael_Lagally 12:10:54 scribenick: Ege 12:11:00 topic: minutes 12:11:14 ktoumura has joined #wot 12:11:20 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/17-wot-minutes.html Apr-17 12:11:32 mm: anything to change? 12:11:37 mm: minutes are approved 12:11:37 matsuda has joined #wot 12:11:44 present+ Tetsushi_Matsuda 12:11:54 topic: IG Charter 12:12:00 mm: there were 19/20 approvals 12:12:11 -> https://www.w3.org/2002/09/wbs/33280/wotig2024/results AC review results (Member-only) 12:12:44 kaz; now we have 22 supports, 1 suggestion 12:13:07 q+ 12:13:55 kaz: the suggestion we see is more something for WG, I will contact the person 12:14:09 mm: It can be a use case 12:14:42 mm: it is good that nobody objected it 12:15:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:15:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/24-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:15:48 topic: Meetups 12:17:01 q+ 12:17:09 q- 12:19:09 EgePhone has joined #wot 12:19:24 I have lost internet at home, trying to be back asap 12:19:44 ek: @@@ 12:19:50 mizu: no specific update on WoT-JP CG 12:20:09 topic: Cancellations 12:20:24 i/@@@/scribenick: kaz/ 12:20:43 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations_and_Schedule_Updates Cancellations 12:21:05 s/I have lost internet at home, trying to be back asap// 12:21:19 dp: note tomorrow is a holiday in Italy 12:21:43 ml: regarding Profile, we'll have a call next Tuesday. right? 12:21:45 lb: yes 12:21:56 topic: Publication schedule 12:22:07 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md 12:22:10 mm: no changes 12:22:15 topic: TF Discussion 12:22:35 mm: some of the issues around Security to be handled by the Use Cases TF 12:23:02 ... and also I need to step down as the TF moderator for Security and Discovery 12:23:09 ... would search for a new TF lead 12:23:16 s/moderator/lead/ 12:23:35 ... no pressing issues about Discovery 12:23:47 ... though we might want to think about geolocation information 12:23:55 q? 12:23:58 ack d 12:23:59 q+ 12:24:31 ... regarding Security, need for a separate Security TF is also a question 12:24:39 q+ 12:25:06 s/Security TF is/Security TF meeting is/ 12:26:08 kaz: maybe we can split the question into 2 pieces 12:26:08 proposal: Suspend Discovery TF and Security TF for now. 12:26:30 resolution: Suspend Discovery TF and Security TF for now. 12:26:51 s/2 pieces/2 pieces: 1. suspension of Discovery and Security, 2. Call for new TF lead/ 12:27:01 mm: first part resolved 12:27:27 proposal: Seek a new TF lead for the Discovery TF immediately; however, the new TF lead will decide when it is appropriate to restart meetings. 12:27:29 q? 12:27:31 ack k 12:27:48 ack m 12:28:00 mn: concerned about the low participation 12:28:06 Egephone has joined #wot 12:28:15 mm: we have a document of Security guidelines 12:28:43 ... right way to do is selecting a new TF lead 12:28:50 ... and then pick a better slot 12:29:04 ... or think about combining the Security call with another call possibly 12:29:08 proposal: Seek a new TF lead for the Discovery TF immediately; however, the new TF lead will decide when it is appropriate to restart meetings. 12:29:42 resolution: Seek a new TF lead for the Discovery TF immediately; however, the new TF lead will decide when it is appropriate to restart meetings. 12:30:07 proposal: Seek a new TF lead for the Security TF immediately; however, the new TF lead will decide when it is appropriate to restart meetings. 12:30:25 resolution: Seek a new TF lead for the Security TF immediately; however, the new TF lead will decide when it is appropriate to restart meetings. 12:30:58 mm: another resolution about call for new TF lead for Security and Discovery has been also made 12:31:10 topic: JSON Schema 12:31:38 -> https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/B1p3op5k0 Ege's proposed text 12:31:59 mm: once we get consensus on the text, we can send it to the Strategy Team 12:32:00 q+ 12:33:20 kaz: we should quickly skim the text before making the resolution 12:33:23 mm: ok 12:34:22 [[ 12:34:22 The WoT WG is a long-time user and supporter of the JSON Schema activities. 12:34:22 This message has been conveyed in the past via a joint blog post at the JSON Schema blog (see here), which was also reviewed by the W3C MarComm team. 12:34:22 Comment 12:34:22 Suggest edit 12:34:23 The WoT WG supports the path JSON Schema Project has decided to take in becoming a self-governed entity that maintains the JSON Schema standards. 12:34:26 We prefer W3C to consider JSON Schema specifications to be normatively referencable and integratable into W3C specifications. 12:34:29 ]] 12:34:38 q+ 12:34:50 ack k 12:35:10 q+ 12:35:34 mm: one thing missing is mention of the other RDF-based validation tools 12:35:46 ack e 12:36:12 ek: main reason if developer friendly ness 12:36:25 ... technically, we can use SHACL, etc. also 12:36:55 cris2 has joined #wot 12:37:15 mm: maybe we can add one sentence or two about our need around point 2 12:37:16 [[ 12:37:23 Since WoT TDs are usually serialized into JSON-LD, we provide a JSON Schema for validation of TDs. This is published together with the REC at https://www.w3.org/2022/wot/td-schema/v1.1. This is also the core of the tooling used for generating the implementation report, a crucial step in getting to REC stage. 12:37:24 ]] 12:37:28 lb: 12:37:31 s/lb:// 12:38:02 lb: most important point is we're handling dialect of JSON Schema 12:38:26 ... generating TypeScript is one example 12:38:42 ... we can generate different markups using LinkML, etc., toos 12:38:45 s/toos/too/ 12:38:58 +1 on what is the most important usage 12:39:06 ... by now, it was not completely clear 12:39:12 ... we have to be very careful 12:39:21 ... very easily to diverge 12:39:45 ... we can rely on our JSON Schema ourselves 12:39:53 mm: the question is we can make mistakes 12:40:04 ... also possible compatibility issues 12:40:29 ... do you think we need to fix the proposed position text itself? 12:40:49 q+ 12:40:58 q+ 12:41:17 mm: (propose some improvement) 12:41:56 suggest the following text added to the first point under "Problems:" There is the potential to create an accidentally incompatible dialect. 12:42:08 ack lu 12:42:11 lb: sounds good 12:42:45 ek: can better highlight the problems if needed 12:42:52 mm: point 2 is already clear 12:42:59 q+ 12:43:04 q+ 12:43:15 ack e 12:43:57 ack k 12:44:23 kaz: would suggest we explicitly mention our need for "firm basis for our standardization work" 12:45:45 mm: (generates concrete sentence for that) 12:46:06 expanding to a full sentence, put it right after "explained below" - "The WoT WG needs a firm basis for our current and future standardization work." - boldface would be good, also. 12:46:19 q? 12:46:28 ack de 12:47:05 de: we do have an example of how people approach the issue of JSON Schema 12:47:10 ... approach the keywords 12:47:31 ... kind of similar to what McCool mentioned 12:47:42 ... avoid unexpected dialects 12:47:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:47:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/24-wot-minutes.html kaz 12:47:59 mm: yeah 12:48:23 ... "The WG had to manually copy over a subset of JSON Schema Draft 7" is the core problem 12:48:31 Open api 3.1 is more strict about the json schema but they did have a discrepancy before 12:48:45 mm: the point is impact to implementations 12:49:16 matsuda has joined #wot 12:49:23 lb: our schema mechanism is strongly bound to some specific version of JSON Schema 12:49:54 ... it is something requires more careful treatment 12:50:15 mm: yeah 12:50:41 ... we should consider extension wouldn't break the existing keywords 12:50:55 lb: would have some addition to the proposed text 12:51:19 ... we use JSON Schema as "nice to have" 12:51:41 ... the first point is our pain point 12:51:41 [[ 12:51:49 The primary use of JSON Schema is modeling and description of the data that an IoT device sends or receives. 12:51:51 TD document calls it a Data Schema (see this section). We have even published a JSON Schema ontology at https://www.w3.org/2019/wot/json-schema# 12:51:54 ]] 12:52:04 mm: we should not add too much detail to this position statement 12:52:13 ... and think the current text is fine for that purpose 12:52:26 ... but disagree we remove point 2 and 3 12:52:42 q+ 12:52:45 ack lu 12:53:29 kaz: that's OK and important 12:53:33 EgePhonr has joined #wot 12:53:41 ... but we should fix the style for point 1, 2 and 3? 12:53:44 ek: can fix that 12:53:58 mm: given the fix, can we accept the text itself? 12:54:41 q+ 12:54:49 ack k 12:54:53 proposal: Accept the proposed text at https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/B1p3op5k0 and authorize Ege Korkan to post it to the strategy issue related to JSON schema. Ege may may changes in line with the suggestions above. 12:55:01 s/may may/may/ 12:55:19 proposal: Accept the proposed text at https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/B1p3op5k0 and authorize Ege Korkan to post it to the strategy issue related to JSON schema. Ege may make changes in line with the suggestions above. 12:56:05 q+ 12:57:08 proposal: Accept the proposed text at https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/B1p3op5k0#Submission-text and authorize Ege Korkan to post it to the strategy issue related to JSON schema. Ege may make changes in line with the suggestions above. 12:57:28 kaz: let's continue some more tidy-up work offline after getting resolution 12:57:39 resolution: Accept the proposed text at https://hackmd.io/@egekorkan/B1p3op5k0#Submission-text and authorize Ege Korkan to post it to the strategy issue related to JSON schema. Ege may make changes in line with the suggestions above. 12:57:41 ... we need to extract the "Submission text" 12:58:02 topic: F2F planning 12:58:15 mm: need to see people's availability 12:58:21 ... maybe organize a doodle pol 12:58:33 topic: Versioning policy 12:58:42 mm: still draft. right? 12:58:43 ek: yes 12:58:58 ... would like to talk about that next time 12:59:07 topic: TF reports 12:59:13 mm: no time to talk about this 12:59:24 ... but I've marked Security and Discovery as "suspended" 12:59:28 [adjourned] 12:59:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 12:59:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/24-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:36:13 Ege has joined #wot 14:01:06 mahda4 has joined #wot 14:04:54 TallTed has joined #wot 14:08:12 Ege has joined #wot 14:12:57 dape has joined #wot 14:22:28 Ege has joined #wot 15:00:06 Zakim has left #wot 15:07:38 bigbluehat has joined #wot 15:24:03 JKRhb has joined #wot 16:04:51 JKRhb has joined #wot 16:20:13 JKRhb has joined #wot 16:32:52 JKRhb has joined #wot 16:40:26 JKRhb has joined #wot 16:48:50 JKRhb has joined #wot 17:04:31 JKRhb has joined #wot 18:00:52 JKRhb has joined #wot 19:43:42 JKRhb has joined #wot 20:45:17 JKRhb has joined #wot 21:45:55 JKRhb has joined #wot