18:01:57 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 18:02:02 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/23-aria-apg-irc 18:02:07 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/23-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 18:02:33 Meeting: ARIA Authoring Practice Guide 18:02:46 jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg 18:03:01 present+ jugglinmike 18:03:13 Present+ 18:03:31 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/April-23%2C-2024-Agenda 18:04:23 Matt_King has joined #aria-apg 18:04:42 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:05:00 Topic: Setup and Review Agenda 18:05:07 Jem: Next meeting will be April 30 18:05:15 Jem: Any requests for changes to the agenda? 18:05:21 Jem: Hearing none, we'll move on 18:05:26 Topic: Publication status 18:06:02 Matt_King: Shawn and I will be travelling for AccessU 18:06:18 Matt_King: So it will be hard to choose a specific time for that week 18:06:39 Matt_King: Maybe the best decision is to work on getting everything ready by May 7th, and then just check in with Shawn if that doesn't work out for some reason 18:06:58 Matt_King: I don't think we have to be very particular about the day of the week, so Shawn can fit it in some time during the week of the 14th 18:07:17 dmontalvo: I support that. It will help dramatically if we can have a publication ready for May 7th 18:07:44 Matt_King: The pull request that I really want to get landed is the one related to "Feed" 18:07:54 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/milestone/31 18:08:46 Matt_King: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775 18:08:57 Matt_King: I'd like to get that done within the next two weeks 18:09:20 Matt_King: Same goes for this pull request concerning skipTo https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2975 18:09:42 Matt_King: Only howard-e has looked at that, so we might want someone to do a visual design review--just to ensure that there are no regressions 18:10:26 Jem: I can do that review. I'll assign myself 18:10:30 Matt_King: Awesome 18:10:36 Matt_King: And thanks to howard-e for the code review 18:10:43 Matt_King: I think this is looking good for May 7th 18:11:02 Matt_King: I'm responsible for https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/1611 18:12:04 Subtopic: Coverage and Quality Report: add information about use of forced-colors media query in examples 18:12:09 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2902 18:12:20 Matt_King: We don't have any reviewers assigned here. Is this ready for review? 18:13:04 Matt_King: There are some conflicting files in this pull request because we changed how the report date is being generated (now, it's being generated during build instead of when the report is run) 18:14:39 Matt_King: Actually, it is only a conflict in the generated file... I wonder, is this a matter of jongund merging the "main" branch into his branch...? 18:17:17 Matt_King: I would like howard-e to look at this because he recently looked at the quality report stuff and I want to make sure it's all in-line with those other changes 18:17:48 Jem: I've assigned howard-e and added his name to the checklist in the pull request description 18:20:01 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:20:01 Topic: Feed example update 18:20:17 Matt_King: We'll skip this because Ariella isn't present today. I'll send an e-mail 18:20:27 Topic: Plans to Enhance High Contrast Support 18:21:03 can you please give to join zoom meeting? 18:21:04 Matt_King: The first step in this plan is the coverage report 18:21:07 presnt+ dmontalvo 18:21:15 present+ dmontalvo 18:21:42 https://deploy-preview-315--aria-practices.netlify.app/aria/apg/practices/high-contrast/ 18:21:42 Matt_King: I started a draft pull request to start experimenting with some ideas, https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2991 18:21:54 jongund: I can take over from where you left off 18:22:00 Matt_King: Thank you! 18:23:07 Matt_King: let's get pull request 2902 in shape and delivered, first, than then work on pull request 2991 18:29:01 Topic: Adding a Live regions practice page 18:29:13 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2989 18:29:14 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2989 18:29:24 Matt_King: We had a pull request that was originally started by Simon 18:29:34 Matt_King: It never got finished for a number of reasons 18:29:47 Matt_King: And there has recently been more attention given to live regions in ARIA 18:30:11 Matt_King: So now seems like the right time to "wake up" this piece of work that has been dormant for five years (since 2019!) 18:30:28 Matt_King: I created this pull request. The preview doesn't work right now, there are broken links, etc. 18:30:46 Matt_King: I could continue work on it, but I thought it was a great pull request for someone who wants to get their hands dirty for the first time 18:31:32 Matt_King: The first step is to bring the text up to date in terms of linking to the correct places in the APG, fixing the other evident problems in the pull request, and then facilitating a discussion about what SHOULD be on this new page. 18:31:58 Jem: It would be helpful if this had more of a description 18:33:08 Matt_King: I'd be happy to mentor someone if someone wants to pick this up 18:33:33 Matt_King: It includes a link to issue 1027. I don't know if that has a functional preview, but you can at least see the functional content by opening the "files" tab of that pull request 18:34:39 dmontalvo: I can make an attempt. No promises about deadlines, though! 18:35:04 Matt_King: I thought about raising an issue in ARIA and maybe pulling in one of the people in ARIA 18:35:21 dmontalvo: that's a good idea. ARIA is a larger group, to be sure, so we may find someone there 18:35:25 Now I see what Matt did. https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2989/files 18:35:39 Matt_King: I think I wanted to do something like that for ARIA Actions, too 18:35:54 Matt_King: But if, in the mean time, we could assign this to you, dmontalvo, just to get your initial impressions 18:36:00 dmontalvo: Sure 18:36:34 dmontalvo: This is only about live regions, correct? We're not considering ARIA Notify, yet, right? 18:36:40 Matt_King: That's right--not yet 18:37:07 Matt_King: For now, anything on ARIA Notify would have to be in the "experimental content" area. But this is not about that 18:37:31 Matt_King: We're not getting rid of declarative live regions--not at all. There's no movement in ARIA for anything like that 18:37:46 Matt_King: I think people will continue to use live regions when content is in the DOM and in a fixed location 18:38:13 Matt_King: There are other use cases where the Accessibility Notifications API will come into play 18:38:49 content/practices/live-regions/live-regions-practice.html 18:39:05 Topic: Support for experimental content 18:39:25 Matt_King: I think we want to skip this topic, as well. I hoped to do more work on this before today's meeting started, but I did not 18:39:42 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+created%3A%3E2021-08-15+no%3Alabel++sort%3Aupdated-desc 18:39:43 Topic: Other new issues 18:42:23 Subtopic: Default actions on modal dialogs via ENTER key 18:42:27 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2992 18:43:35 Jem: This person is asking to use the "enter" key for escaping the modal dialog 18:44:42 Matt_King: They want to know if we can take the list of default actions in the modal dialog, should we say something about the enter key performing the default action 18:44:53 Jem: What is the default action? 18:45:03 jongund: Typically, it's the "submit" 18:45:26 Matt_King: I'm personally nervous about pressing "enter" in these situations because I'm not confident what it will do 18:45:38 Matt_King: ARIA doesn't have anything related to "default action" 18:46:13 Jem: "Enter key for default action" is a clear scope. But it's not clear what the default action is 18:46:46 CoryJoseph: I never use the default action in a modal, either 18:47:08 s/Enter key for default action/Enter key for submit action 18:47:13 Matt_King: I think this is why ARIA doesn't include a default action attribute that you can apply to dialogs 18:47:15 s/Enter key for default action/Enter key for submit action/ 18:47:36 Matt_King: because there's no way of communicating the default action in a web dialog to an end user 18:47:58 Matt_King: That's why I feel a little reluctant to say anything at all about default actions in the interactions section of the modal dialog 18:48:06 jongund: Well, it's a browser convention 18:48:26 jongund: You get default action, it looks for the submit button 18:48:43 jongund: If you're in a form, that is 18:49:28 jongund: What does ARIA say about default actions? That you should do it? That you shouldn't do it? That sometimes you should do it? 18:49:45 jongund: Maybe this is beyond the scope of ARIA. It might not be worth saying anything about it in APG 18:50:03 Matt_King: If we said something about it, that would suggest that there is a way to define a default action for a dialog 18:50:14 CoryJoseph: Escape closes the dialog 18:50:21 Matt_King: That's not a default behavior, though 18:50:27 CoryJoseph: No, it's just a user expectation 18:51:01 Enter key for default action 18:51:03 Jem: I searched the ARIA spec, and there's nothing about default in 1.3. In 1.2, however, there's a comment about it in a note 18:51:50 [Jem reads the notes] 18:51:56 s/notes/note/ 18:52:23 Matt_King: That is the way that screen readers emulate a mouse click in "reading" mode. It's not related to the default action which we're considering here 18:52:50 CoryJoseph: If there's a form inside the modal, and you have a submit button, then there's a default action 18:52:57 CoryJoseph: Otherwise, there is no default action 18:53:11 Matt_King: Does a screen reader ever tell you about the default action in a form...? 18:53:20 CoryJoseph: I don't think so, not even with the most generous hints on 18:53:34 dmontalvo: I think you can get at the default on a Windows desktop app 18:53:40 Matt_King: Sure, in a dialog you can 18:53:53 dmontalvo: That may be out of scope for this discussion, though 18:55:12 Jem: I think we're saying "no", and the uncertainty here is the reason 18:56:08 Matt_King: Because ARIA does not provide a way of communicating what the default action will be, for us to say how to perform a default action is going beyond the spec. 18:57:42 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2978 18:59:20 Zakim, end the meeting 18:59:20 As of this point the attendees have been jugglinmike, CoryJoseph, dmontalvo 18:59:22 RRSAgent, please draft minutes v2 18:59:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/23-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 18:59:26 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 18:59:30 Zakim has left #aria-apg 18:59:38 RRSAgent, leave 18:59:39 jongund has joined #aria-apg 18:59:47 rrsagent, make log public 19:00:27 RRSAgent, leave 19:00:27 I see no action items