13:00:59 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:01:04 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-irc 13:01:06 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF 13:01:35 luca_barbato has joined #wot-td 13:02:02 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato 13:03:11 ktoumura has joined #wot-td 13:03:26 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster 13:03:35 chair: Ege, Koster 13:03:46 Ege has joined #wot-td 13:04:40 mjk has joined #wot-td 13:04:40 regrets+ Daniel 13:05:46 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:06:11 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:08:00 topic: Minutes 13:08:11 -> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html Apr-11 13:08:48 scribeNick: mahdanoura 13:09:27 ege: any concerns regarding minutes? 13:09:32 (None) 13:09:37 ege: minutes approved 13:09:55 topic: Binding Templates 13:10:03 subtopic: registry 13:10:16 https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1188 13:10:34 ege: analyzing TTGW work in registry analysis 13:11:04 https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1189 13:11:08 ege: went through the resources and documented in PR 13:11:50 ege: the interesting this I observed is, who is managing the registires, for them 3C team is taking the responsibility 13:12:29 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1188|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1188 wot Issue 1188 - Incorporating TTWG work into the registry analysis| 13:12:44 The above case is only when the WG does not do this 13:12:59 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1189|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1189 wot PR 1189 - TTWG Boilerplate Analysis| 13:13:09 ege: they have a process defined where you can create an issue, when you want to add something to the registry 13:13:12 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:13:16 s/The above/... The above/ 13:13:22 ege: they talk about how an entry evolves over time 13:15:02 ege: they also clearly define the different states of entry 13:15:20 i|they have a process|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1189/files?short_path=cda867c#diff-cda867ce06cea8c711dfcfcfd31a0fc0284ce8f56882171a5321790b0c266994 rich diff| 13:15:43 ege: and in the provisional state you can do modifications, but in final entries cannot be removed 13:16:16 ege: regarding deprecation they are really specific, you cannot deprecate and create a new one with the same name 13:16:42 ege: I also have added a custodian section 13:16:55 q+ 13:17:03 ege: is there any question/remarks? 13:17:41 kaz: thank you for your survey, the description itself is a good starting point, but maybe we should distinguish the basic registry track from the process document and from the other examples. 13:18:20 ege: good point 13:19:16 ack k 13:19:40 ege: any other points? 13:19:45 (None) 13:19:50 ege: we can merge this PR 13:20:28 Topic: TD 13:20:38 subtopic: Toolchain 13:20:49 rrsagent, make log public 13:20:52 ege: this is a repository from Mahda 13:20:52 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:54 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:21:01 https://github.com/mahdanoura/thing-description-schema/tree/master 13:22:01 scribe+ 13:22:17 mn: modeling TD information model based on LinkML 13:22:50 ... incorporating with the WoT Security ontology, etc. 13:23:10 ... to automate the data processing 13:23:31 ... I've not yet done everything, though 13:23:58 ... (shows the tentative results of the generated data) 13:25:06 q+ 13:25:37 scribe+ 13:25:58 kaz: Thank you for the work, I have some questions 13:26:01 q+ 13:26:24 ... Does this imply we should have a separate repository? 13:26:51 mn: For now I have it there, but we can move it to TD 13:27:29 kaz: if it is tentative, early work it is fine but we should discuss as a group 13:27:47 kaz: We should clarify the goal of this effort and the status of the work 13:28:11 mn: The readme is in a draft state 13:28:47 kaz: my expectation is, for other guys as well, to get an easy understanding of the goal and status of the work 13:28:58 cris has joined #wot-td 13:29:03 q? 13:30:03 lb: I had a look at the current structure 13:30:16 ack k 13:30:41 ... all in all it looks great. Ideally we can put everything in the yaml and use jinja templates to produce final documents 13:31:09 ack lu 13:31:15 ... we should also check if we can produce all the resources and artifacts we currently generate 13:31:43 ... with bikeshed and linkml, combined with github actions, we should be able to produce everything 13:31:57 ... we need to better document how to use LinkML. There are some pitfalls 13:32:08 ... such as getting all the python dependencies 13:32:24 ... what is shown so far looks like a best fit for what we need 13:32:50 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:32:51 s/status of the work/status of the work, e.g., on the README at the top leve./ 13:32:55 d/leve/level/ 13:33:03 mn: we should have some small rounds on deciding some small technical aspects 13:33:18 q? 13:33:20 s/of the work/of the work first./ 13:33:53 scribenick: mahda 13:34:00 rrsagent, make log public 13:34:02 Ege: Mahda did this in another repo to keep it more flexible for now 13:34:04 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:34:05 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:34:22 Ege: we should not have anything in a personal repo, how do you think we should proceed? 13:34:34 q+ 13:34:43 i/any concerns re/scribenick: mahda/ 13:34:49 Ege: because until we don't generate everything in our desired state, we cannot replace our index.html. 13:34:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:34:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:35:20 q+ 13:35:29 s|d/leve/level|| 13:35:34 Ege: we could have a seperate branch and once ready we replace the main branch, could become complicated in terms of PR reviews 13:35:36 s/top leve/top level/ 13:35:38 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:35:39 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:35:47 Ege: or for the other option a seperate repo 13:35:58 q+ 13:36:04 JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td 13:36:44 luca: given that this toolchain would replace everything, we could consider a clean state, we could keep everything in another branch, and once we are happy with everything we replace them with the new system 13:36:58 luca: the way it works, we will literally have to replace everything 13:37:17 luca: we can have some transition commits 13:37:34 ack lu 13:37:54 luca: we feed everything on bikeshed, we could do a couple of commit that convert the HTML to markdown, and then to ninja templates 13:38:21 qq+ 13:39:03 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 13:39:10 luca: I would suggest, that Mahda would need some help, and then get some volunteers, for the bikeshed markdown conversion, to also parallelise the work 13:40:11 luca: I am suggesting this mainly, because LinkML is able to produce a markdown through templates, but making so that we produce an HTML that is fitting completely, bikeshed is getting standard for W3C 13:41:03 ack k 13:41:06 ack k 13:41:06 kaz, you wanted to react to luca_barbato 13:41:13 q+ 13:41:26 s/kaz, you wanted to react to luca_barbato// 13:42:08 [ Luca's point: A separate branch and then replace everything by deleting the root and getting a clean slate.] 13:42:23 ack k 13:43:08 Cris: I sort of agree with Luca to go with a seperate branch 13:43:42 Cris: I would say it's clear for everybody that branches are created for different versions, we need to change the render 13:43:47 q+ 13:43:59 Cris: Are you sure we need to do a full cleanup of the repo or do we need some of the files? 13:44:29 Ege: I think the publication folder is important, and I think we cannot delete everything 13:45:05 Cris: If we do some experimentation in the branch that is also fine, we try to squash some of them, and i guess working in another branch is nicer 13:45:22 q? 13:45:27 q+ 13:45:28 ack c 13:45:30 q- 13:45:41 [ Cris' point: Agree on a separate branch and we can configure the renderer to use that branch. Don't switch to main until that branch is "ready"] 13:46:48 q+ 13:47:14 ack k 13:47:16 Kaz: I also tend to agree with the direction, but the toolchain resources itself is not part of the specification itself, eventhough they are related, we still need some dedicated work in the toolchain area, my suggestion is that we seperate the repository, and once the content is finalized we move it or we just keep it as the wot toolchain 13:47:16 repository. 13:48:20 Ege: That would technically work, but what it will produce will go to the spec, spec+artifacts. There will be things that we have write by hand. I think it will mess up the commit history. I would tend to keep it in the TD repository 13:48:38 Kaz: I am proposing a seperate repository so that it's cleaner and safer 13:49:24 s/cleaner and safer/cleaner, safer and also easier to handle at least as a tentative starting point :)/ 13:49:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:49:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:51:12 Luca: As it is right now, we have a situation with a mix of scripts, artifacts produced by scripts, editing by hand, and this is one of the pain points we want to avoid. The one thing I would like to have a consensus, is that we don't want to have this situation anymore. 13:51:32 Luca: The main point is that it would be good to prevent manual edits on machine generated artifacts 13:51:34 [ Kaz's point: Temporary separate repo ] 13:52:01 s/toolchain resources itself/toolchain resource itself/ 13:52:08 Ege: I would be reluctant to say that the index.html is not included in the repo 13:53:30 s/seperate the repository/we have a separate repository for the tool chain, e.g., wot-thing-description-toolchain/ 13:54:12 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:54:30 s/as the wot toolchain/for the wot toolchain like the wot-testing./ 13:54:37 q? 13:54:47 Luca: first we need to see if we can generate everything with this tentative toolchain, for now it looks promising 13:55:42 Ege: I would talk further with Kaz, to see if it's fine to not have the index.html in the repo. But for the rest I agree. 13:55:57 q+ 13:56:08 Luca: Every minute that we invest can be spent on something else 13:56:51 ack lu 13:56:53 Ege: in previous cases, there were people changing the index.html page, and we should make sure this does not happen 13:57:18 Ege: Luca and Cris you mentioned a seperate branch, but are you fine also for a seperate repo 13:57:26 Luca: I would be fine 13:57:51 Cris: Ok 13:58:29 kaz: I can help with creating the repo and installing the resources on Mahda's repo 13:58:43 s/on/from/ 13:59:13 proposal: Create a new GitHub repository that will house the new toolchain-based working mode. When the new work is ready, we will submit it to the TD repository with a PR. 13:59:19 s/Mahda's repo/Mahda's repo to the W3C WoT side/ 13:59:30 q? 13:59:31 ack k 13:59:42 kaz: the repo name should be decided too 14:00:01 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 14:00:19 Ege: I would say something with thing description, but people should not be confused, and realize this is temporary. Toolchain implies that it will stay. Maybe with temp 14:00:29 q+ 14:01:25 q+ 14:01:30 q+ 14:01:35 Mahda: I think with the toolchain name will imply that we are generating something for the users, maybe confusing, maybe something with specification generation 14:01:47 cris: can't we just fork the wot repo? 14:01:55 Ege: no, it should be under W3C 14:01:55 q+ 14:02:30 JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td 14:03:12 Luca: we should consider that if everything works as intended, we continue the same for the profiles. All in all, if we make everything as simplified as possible, any name is good in my opinion 14:03:22 q? 14:03:25 ack m 14:03:51 ack cr 14:03:52 Kaz: my point is that we should have wot-thing-description and dash and temp, but I am fine with anything 14:03:53 ack lu 14:03:55 ack ka 14:04:04 proposal: Create a new GitHub repository named https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp that will house the new toolchain-based working mode. When the new work is ready, we will submit it to the TD repository with a PR. 14:04:26 Ege: any objections to this? 14:04:32 (None) 14:04:32 resolution: Create a new GitHub repository named https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description-toolchain-tmp that will house the new toolchain-based working mode. When the new work is ready, we will submit it to the TD repository with a PR. 14:04:37 s/and temp/and SOMETHING and tmp/ 14:05:01 s/anything/anything for SOMETHING above/ 14:05:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/18-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 14:26:06 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 14:26:35 JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td 14:40:28 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 14:55:19 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 14:55:46 JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td 15:18:35 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 16:07:40 JKRhb_ has joined #wot-td 16:32:09 Zakim has left #wot-td 17:38:02 JKRhb has joined #wot-td