IRC log of coga on 2024-04-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

12:06:34 [RRSAgent]
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12:06:38 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/15-coga-irc
12:06:38 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:06:39 [Zakim]
Meeting: Cognitive and Learning Disabilities Accessibility Task Force Teleconference
12:07:18 [Lisa]
scribe: Jan McSorley
12:11:34 [Lisa]
topic - coordinating the next draft
12:13:38 [Lisa]
agenda+ our timeline. see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
12:14:23 [Lisa]
agenda+ update for stucture see rains email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2024Apr/0015.html
12:15:06 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for mental health input . Discuss branches and edits
12:16:13 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for intrernationalization
12:16:26 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for testing?
12:16:38 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for images for each objective
12:17:15 [Lisa]
agenda+ comments on the irc Lounge: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sIErFDJMl1vpjZXmfaNksl1QE2H-Px1MGMBexZmkRAQ/edit?usp=sharing
12:21:08 [Lisa]
agenda+ Optional meetings over passover. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UAFHZuxmyhYAjZZyWxp_rvhIHuXmeWQosgVZD5LcxmM/edit#heading=h.b3omueq4wldv
12:23:11 [Lisa]
agenda+ final feedback on Collabritve tools. see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CFJoA8DHst31mej6o2en49wXhoMMLVe15fUzQB-owk8/edit and my email
12:23:19 [Lisa]
agenda?
12:24:05 [Lisa]
clear agenda
12:24:46 [Lisa]
agenda+ coordinating the next draft - see our timeline athttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
12:24:54 [Lisa]
agenda+ update for stucture see rains email: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2024Apr/0015.html
12:25:08 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for mental health input . Discuss branches and edits
12:25:23 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for intrernationalization
12:25:31 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for testing?
12:25:39 [Lisa]
agenda+ Update for images for each objective
12:25:57 [Lisa]
agenda+ comments on the irc Lounge: https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sIErFDJMl1vpjZXmfaNksl1QE2H-Px1MGMBexZmkRAQ/edit?usp=sharing
12:26:15 [Lisa]
agenda+ Optional meetings over passover. See https://docs.google.com/document/d/1UAFHZuxmyhYAjZZyWxp_rvhIHuXmeWQosgVZD5LcxmM/edit#heading=h.b3omueq4wldv
12:26:30 [Lisa]
agenda+ final feedback on Collabritve tools. see https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CFJoA8DHst31mej6o2en49wXhoMMLVe15fUzQB-owk8/edit and my email
13:07:39 [kirkwood]
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14:32:14 [Lisa]
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14:33:34 [Lisa]
regrets+ Becca, Eric
14:33:39 [Lisa]
q?
14:33:43 [Lisa]
agenda?
14:33:57 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
14:33:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/15-coga-minutes.html Lisa
14:43:25 [Lisa]
q?
14:51:52 [JanM]
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14:55:56 [Lisa]
scribe: JanM
14:59:05 [EA]
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14:59:32 [JanM]
present+ JanMcSorley
14:59:47 [EA]
present+
15:01:10 [Lisa]
next item
15:01:27 [Lisa]
see our timeline athttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
15:01:42 [Jennie]
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15:01:44 [JanM]
First item is about coordinating work on the current draft.
15:01:51 [JeanneEC]
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15:01:55 [JeanneEC]
present+
15:02:23 [julierawe]
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15:02:27 [julierawe]
present+
15:02:34 [JanM]
First phase is meant to end at the end of this month, include mental health and put in place holders for internationalization and testing. Images are on hold for now.
15:02:40 [Lisa]
see our timeline athttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
15:03:08 [Lisa]
rains email https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-cognitive-a11y-tf/2024Apr/0015.html
15:03:18 [JanM]
Lisa: We are looking at phase 1 of our current time table. The first thing we were going to do is put in a new structure. Rain is leading the structure group.
15:04:12 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1G_mz7AktVNtbZMiCMvyZzJaNR1429RAqxVnH6DUWIcw/edit#heading=h.wfdmo5qvitv6
15:04:46 [JanM]
Lisa: Rain sent us a link - over the next month it looks like the structure team will draft new content elements and get some images in place.
15:05:43 [JanM]
Lisa: I believe Roy was meant to help Rain with prototyping a structure - Lisa will be talking with Roy tomorrow to see when he thinks we will be getting a new editor's draft
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15:06:52 [JanM]
Lisa: Rain is creating mock-ups for Roy
15:07:39 [EA]
q+
15:07:42 [tburtin]
present+
15:07:42 [JanM]
Lisa: An editor's draft is not for public review - we might show them to the chairs of AG, etc., but we just need some internal feedback. Lisa will speak to Roy to see when the prototype might happen.
15:08:21 [JanM]
Lisa: Mental Health content is meant to be in the draft from the literary review
15:09:17 [JanM]
Lisa: In the meantime, Eric and Rashmi are putting in things from the mental health literary review and the issues that we have addressed so far - we are putting them into a branch.
15:10:00 [JanM]
Lisa: I will try to draw an outline pattern for color and we will add a note that we will add additional research soon - this could be a placeholder and we can find some research to add later.
15:11:06 [JanM]
Lisa: will speak to Rashmi on Thursday - we are having an additional mental health separate meeting to meet the deadline. This will be at the earlier time.
15:12:07 [JanM]
Lisa: The plan is to have the color pattern by Thursday so that we can tweak it a bit for the draft.
15:12:44 [JanM]
Lisa: We also need a pattern to represent the issue papers - we need to iterate what we're leaving out - at least an editor's note so that they are not left out altogether.
15:12:48 [EA]
q-
15:12:52 [Jennie]
present+
15:14:34 [Lisa]
q?
15:16:28 [Rachael]
+1 to a longer initial note that links to the patterns and an additional note on each pattern
15:17:23 [julierawe]
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15:17:27 [julierawe]
present+
15:17:32 [JanM]
+1 to Rachael's suggestion
15:17:35 [Lisa]
+1
15:18:00 [julierawe]
Hi, folks, I accidentally refreshed my IRC page and had to log back in—can you reshare the link Lisa and Jan are talking about?
15:18:12 [Lisa]
see our timeline athttps://docs.google.com/document/d/1XBu9OhGoMG4lLDBRaRFZZxGoNWW-aDkKkVKrypfPvVc/edit#heading=h.ykqwx9vsxdya
15:21:03 [Rachael]
Suggested text: This pattern may need improvements to support internationalization
15:21:38 [Jennie]
* If you use a phrase that starts with a letter not used much for other links on the page, then should be easy to skip in a list of links JanM.
15:21:50 [JeanneEC]
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15:23:19 [JanM]
Lisa: We need to discuss whether we need to add some text for testing - do we want it for this draft, or just for WCAG 3
15:24:19 [JanM]
Jeannie: I am not sure what the answer is - I think there may have been some sections that need further review. Some of the work being done on WCAG 3 might help us make things more easily testable. I will refer to Rachael on the progress being made on WCAG 3
15:24:36 [Rachael]
Q+
15:24:46 [Lisa]
ack next
15:24:50 [JanM]
Lisa: Do we want to put something in our structure for unit testing or a testing appendix, or do we just leave it to WCAG 3
15:25:26 [EA]
+1 to Rashmi's comment
15:25:36 [JanM]
Rachael: This is just my opinion - since we put out content usable, the feedback we are getting is that Content Usable is really dense, so I think it would be better to put a separate document together for testing
15:25:38 [EA]
sorrry]
15:25:46 [EA]
Rachael's comment!
15:26:19 [Jennie]
q+
15:26:23 [Lisa]
ack next
15:26:24 [JanM]
Lisa: Maybe we could be put something in a call-out box that links to a testing page, maybe in a Wiki page that could be updated separately?
15:27:07 [JanM]
Jennie: Can you remind me of the process we follow as WCAG 3 matures - do we have a process in mind for as patterns get included in WCAG 3 so that we can link back and forth on testing between the documents
15:27:47 [Rachael]
I agree that we won’t have wcag 3 to link to when this goes out.
15:28:06 [JanM]
Lisa: We won't have anything to link to when this goes out, but having a wiki page with testing information we have so far, can be updated - if we can do that within the W3C process.
15:28:13 [Rachael]
Irc
15:28:19 [Rachael]
Q+
15:28:29 [Lisa]
ack next
15:28:41 [JanM]
Lisa: I will need to ask Roy and W3C staff what we are allowed to do.
15:29:30 [Jennie]
+1 to a formal page - adds the feeling of more official for those looking at it.
15:30:00 [JanM]
Rachael - I would link to the wiki for now, but then put the testing information in the supplemental WAI guidance within content usable and link to it within the document
15:30:10 [EA]
+1 to a supplemental page that is always 'findable'
15:30:50 [Rachael]
It would go here: https://www.w3.org/WAI/WCAG2/supplemental/#cognitiveaccessibilityguidance
15:30:50 [JanM]
+1 to Rachael's suggestion
15:30:53 [Lisa]
do you agree to rachels suggestion Can we link to wiki for now, page that page on supplemental wai guidance oan the permanent wai site and link to it
15:31:03 [EA]
+1
15:31:05 [Jennie]
+1
15:31:06 [julierawe]
+1
15:31:09 [DavidSwallow]
+1
15:31:10 [JanM]
+1
15:31:11 [tburtin]
+1
15:31:20 [Jennie]
q+
15:31:20 [Lisa]
+1
15:31:26 [Lisa]
any objections
15:31:32 [Lisa]
ack next
15:32:27 [JanM]
Jennie: I know that some of the work related to WCAG 3 will provide possibly some of the work that might go to the creation of the testing protocols - that work will come back and have to get posted, so if we could make sure there's a link back, that might make it easier to complete the work later.
15:32:48 [JanM]
Lisa: Do we need to get this approved through AG?
15:33:08 [JanM]
Rachael: I think send a not to the chairs of APA and AG
15:33:45 [JanM]
Lisa: That is a really elegant way of doing this and then if we put that into our editor's draft, then AG and APA can look at it and comment
15:34:32 [JanM]
Lisa: Images for the draft is on hold because we don't have the wording for the objectives finalized - I would like to move the images to the working draft
15:36:07 [JanM]
Lisa: I would like everyone's permission to move images for objectives to the August draft and we make an editor's note on the current draft to let people know where images will go.
15:36:48 [JanM]
Lisa: This will allow us to close on the wording first so that we're not having to redo images if the wording changes
15:36:53 [JanM]
+1 to Lisa's proposal
15:36:56 [tburtin]
+1
15:37:00 [Lisa]
and why we are delaying it to get the wording and pattern stucture out first
15:37:03 [Lisa]
+1
15:37:19 [Rachael]
+1
15:37:23 [Jennie]
+1
15:37:35 [Lisa]
any objections
15:37:55 [Lisa]
ack next
15:37:59 [Lisa]
next item
15:38:02 [JanM]
Lisa: I will speak to Roy and catch up with him on the first draft
15:38:11 [Lisa]
close item 2
15:38:14 [Lisa]
close item 3
15:38:22 [Lisa]
close item 4
15:38:27 [Lisa]
close item 5
15:38:31 [Lisa]
close item 6
15:39:41 [Lisa]
q?
15:39:49 [JanM]
Lisa: we have had some difficulty with the IRC lounge; Lisa has put together a google doc about these issues - please add if you agree with the issues noted in that doc and add any additional feedback you may have - put in requests, etc.
15:39:54 [Lisa]
close item 6
15:40:18 [Jennie]
q+
15:40:46 [JanM]
Julie: I am looking at the Google doc you just shared - EA was talking with Janina about color contrast not meeting requirements - so this Google doc is for us to put in any concerns we have about IRC?
15:41:02 [JanM]
Lisa: yes - we will be sharing this with Janina
15:41:44 [Lisa]
ack next
15:42:42 [Lisa]
ack next
15:43:44 [JanM]
Julie: Nick as a name of a field does not make sense - it was pointed out that this has been used for decades, but it's not user friendly for newcomers
15:43:59 [JanM]
David: How did the lounge come about?
15:44:08 [JanM]
Lisa: I think it's made by the W3C
15:44:19 [Lisa]
next item
15:44:28 [Lisa]
close item 7
15:44:34 [Lisa]
next item
15:46:35 [JanM]
Lisa: The agenda for the next two weeks - these fall on Passover - we have 2 things scheduled and people may not be able to come. Monday the 22nd, Becca will chair about how to do a literary review. If you want to come to this, but can't because of Passover, we can redo it. The second week Eric will be covering issues, but if people want a call to
15:46:35 [JanM]
review, summarize of discuss, we can have a summary on the call the week of May 6th.
15:46:37 [Lisa]
q?
15:46:42 [Lisa]
next item
15:47:08 [JanM]
Lisa: Let's discuss final feedback on collaborative tools
15:48:09 [JanM]
With respect to the IRC - TIffany suggested that the "Morning" theme is slightly better
15:48:33 [JanM]
Lisa: After 9, Lisa added suggestion 10 and also added suggestions to item for 7
15:49:29 [JanM]
Lisa: Collaborative Tools draft that APA wants to finalize - Lisa made some suggestions
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15:52:47 [Jennie]
present+
15:53:22 [JanM]
David: APA had concerns about applicability to all collaborative spaces - it has been incorporated to some extent in user need 10
15:53:50 [JanM]
Lisa: Can we make an exception to this that when threads of discussions are available, this become applicable.
15:54:13 [JanM]
David: I will have to make a case for this with APA - if we are keen for this to be in, I can take it back to them.
15:54:57 [JanM]
Lisa: Maybe - When there's threaded conversations, or multiple conversations threads, then this (item 10) is applicable.
15:55:06 [JanM]
Lisa: 7 still needs some work
15:55:21 [JanM]
Lisa: Do we make a new issue for each one? Do we make a pull request?
15:55:41 [JanM]
David: I think we should say we still want to see these things as either new issues, or I can attend the meeting
15:56:15 [JanM]
Lisa: If I have not missed anything crucial, we could put our new suggested edits in a google doc and work on the wording a bit
15:56:29 [JanM]
David: Are these are remaining concerns or do others have concerns?
15:57:54 [JanM]
David: Let's go with this email from Lisa - if anyone has a chance to look at the latest version of CTAUR, please let us know sooner rather than later.
15:58:55 [JanM]
Lisa: I will copy and paste her suggestions at the beginning of David's primary Google Doc titled COGA's feedback on Collaboration Tools Accessibility User Requirements (CTAUR)
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15:59:09 [EA]
present+
15:59:13 [EA]
q+
15:59:49 [Lisa]
ack next
15:59:51 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1CFJoA8DHst31mej6o2en49wXhoMMLVe15fUzQB-owk8/edit
16:01:19 [JanM]
EA: I am confused about the difference between 19A and 10A - APA thought they had included it because icons were mentioned in both places, but they didn't mention symbols
16:01:52 [JanM]
EA: There isn't a mention of symbols in their document, but Lisa has added information
16:02:48 [JanM]
Jennie: I got locked out of IRC, but maybe we need a glossary to explain the difference between icons and symbols
16:03:44 [JanM]
Jennie: sometimes when people hear icon, they may not understand the functional use
16:04:37 [Lisa]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1sIErFDJMl1vpjZXmfaNksl1QE2H-Px1MGMBexZmkRAQ/edit
16:04:45 [JanM]
Jennie - I am not sure what happened, but I thought I pressed a key combination that I thought was just for me, but then I got kicked out
16:05:17 [JanM]
Lisa: Please add your lounge experiences to the Google Doc so that we can document the problems you've had with IRC during the meeting
16:05:43 [JanM]
Lisa: In terms of COGA's feedback on CTAUR, David will supply the link that we need to review
16:06:21 [DavidSwallow]
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16:06:31 [DavidSwallow]
Latest version of CTAUR: https://w3c.github.io/ctaur/
16:06:42 [JanM]
EA: I think Lisa has covered the language I thought was missing. As Jennie just explained, we need to create a glossary
16:07:44 [julierawe]
Have to leave for next meeting, thanks!
16:07:57 [Lisa]
RRSAgent, publish minutes
16:07:58 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/15-coga-minutes.html Lisa
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