13:00:37 RRSAgent has joined #wot-td 13:00:42 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-irc 13:01:01 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:02:41 meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF Slot 2 13:02:43 Ege has joined #wot-td 13:02:59 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Jan_Romann, Kunihiko_Toumura, Michael_Koster 13:03:09 mjk has joined #wot-td 13:03:09 ktoumura has joined #wot-td 13:04:00 Tomo has joined #wot-td 13:04:44 scribenick: JKRhb 13:04:47 topic: Minutes Review 13:05:02 ek: Let's start the minutes from last week 13:05:06 q+ 13:05:22 ... the minutes looked good at a first glance 13:05:46 i|Let's|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/03-wot-td-minutes.html Apr-3| 13:05:49 kaz: Since we had the AC meeting yesterday, we are reviewing the minutes from the last meetings, right? 13:05:52 ek: Correct 13:05:59 cris2 has joined #wot-td 13:06:06 ... there is a leftover abbreviated name 13:06:13 ... otherwise, they look good to me 13:06:20 ... does anyone have issues? 13:06:31 kaz: Issue has been fixed 13:06:40 ek: Good, then minutes are approved 13:06:52 ... (shows the minutes of the second meeting) 13:06:52 i||-> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html Apr-4| 13:07:04 ... there have been some IRC formatting issues 13:07:11 i|shows|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-wot-td-minutes.html Apr-4| 13:07:12 ... two resolutions in total 13:07:25 rrsagent, make log public 13:07:26 rrsagent, draft minute 13:07:26 I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minute', kaz. Try /msg RRSAgent help 13:07:26 ... we can approve the minutes, however 13:07:31 s/rrsagent, draft minute// 13:07:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:07:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:07:41 Minutes are approved 13:07:42 topic: Agenda 13:07:54 ek: There are some weird things in the agenda 13:08:15 chair: Ege, Koster 13:08:40 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Mahda_Noura, Tomoaki_Miushima 13:08:44 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:08:45 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:08:51 ... as we are closer to switching to Github projects for project management, we are marking some points as italic, therefore, the formatting gets messed up 13:08:58 luca_barbato has joined #wot-td 13:08:59 ... you can ignore it, though 13:09:28 topic: TD Next Editor's Draft 13:09:29 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1997 13:09:35 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#April_11%2C_2024 13:09:47 ek: This is the current state of the PR 13:10:04 ... currently, it looks as if we are changing the old version 13:10:11 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1997|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1997 PR 1997 - Preparation for TD Next Work| 13:10:14 ... therefore, the PR proposes to change to title 13:10:39 ... currently, it just adds a "Next", but we can discuss that 13:10:53 i|This is the|-> https://pr-preview.s3.amazonaws.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1997.html Preview| 13:10:54 ... also adds some additional information regarding breaking changes 13:10:57 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:10:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:11:15 ... only textual changes, but still important to discuss some points 13:11:25 ... also did some changes to the README 13:11:28 present+ Luca_Barbato 13:12:13 ... there are some unrelated changes at the moment, only the ones in the index.html are relevant 13:12:52 ... would like to hear some comments, whether you like the changes and whether we should use "Next" or "2.0", for example 13:13:08 ... but this should send the message that we are working on a new version 13:13:12 q? 13:13:31 mahda has joined #wot-td 13:13:41 kaz: Basically, you copied all the content from the Binding Template side to the TD document, right? 13:13:51 ek: No, that is not included in this PR 13:14:20 kaz: Okay. We should also update the list of editors by the way 13:14:44 ek: Will update that when we will move the content of the Binding Templates over 13:15:07 q+ 13:15:10 q- 13:15:11 ack c 13:15:12 ... for editors, we should have a separate discussion as well, e.g. regarding authors vs. editors 13:15:22 dape has joined #wot-td 13:15:30 ca: Nothing more to add, like the direction of the PR 13:15:54 q+ 13:15:54 present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:15:56 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:15:58 q+ 13:15:59 ek: Any opnions on 2.0 vs Next? 13:16:13 s/opnions/opinions/ 13:16:22 lb: I guess we can already go for 2.0 13:16:37 ... but that could even be done as a second step 13:16:47 ... you already did a lot of work here 13:17:02 ek: Would be a small change, though 13:17:29 ca: Not having a strong opinion, "Next" would give us more flexibility 13:17:35 q+ 13:17:43 ... but then again, 2.0 is still in the charter 13:17:47 ack lu 13:17:49 ack cr 13:18:01 mjk: We can start with our semantic versioning at any time 13:18:29 q? 13:18:34 q- 13:18:59 kaz: Given that our charter only says "TD update", we can go with "TD Next" and then think about the title as a second step as Luca mentioned, then again everyone seems to be okay with 2.0 13:19:04 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/wot-wg-2023.html WoT WG Charter 13:19:32 s/then again/I personally think/ 13:19:44 ek: Regarding the context URL, we should use a temporary one, I will create an issue for that 13:19:46 s/mentioned,/mentioned./ 13:19:57 s/with 2.0/with 2.0, though./ 13:20:04 ... will also try to fix the large amount of unrelated changes. 13:20:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:20:17 ... (adds a comment to the PR) 13:20:37 ... will fix these issues and then merge it asynchronously 13:20:44 i|will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1997#issuecomment-2049680815 Ege's comment| 13:20:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:20:55 topic: Toolchain Discussion 13:21:12 ek: There have been some discussions but nothing new here 13:21:39 ... Mahda is looking into using LinkML and will present some initial results in one of the next meetings 13:22:13 ... there is a related PR in the Binding Template respository related to the toolchain which we can use as the basis for the discussion 13:22:19 subtopic: Modbus PR 13:22:41 ek: I have noticed some bugs in the toolchain that should need to be fixed 13:23:12 ... so in the Modbus binding, we have a context, ontology and a JSON Schema 13:23:30 q+ 13:23:40 ... there are some inconsistencies between ontology and the resulting Binding Template 13:23:54 ... caused by a bug where the tool was lowercasing everything 13:24:20 ... causing an implementation to be wrong if it looks at the implementation or the JSON Schema 13:24:37 s/implementation/specification/ 13:25:27 ... another example was a typo in the JSON Schema, where an "s" was missing, causing bugs when read by a machine 13:25:36 q? 13:25:48 ... these are examples where our current tooling causes issues 13:25:58 i|I have|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/bindings/protocols/modbus/index.html#function Modbus Binding Template - 4.4 Function 13:26:06 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:26:07 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 13:26:13 mn: This is related to a recent issue 13:26:33 ... in the TD repository 13:26:44 ... issue number 1988 to be precise 13:27:00 ... caused by a different naming in the context and the ontology file 13:27:13 +1 13:27:25 q+ 13:27:28 q+ 13:27:36 ek: In the future, there should simply be no possibility to make this mistake 13:27:53 ... another change in the PR is that I added Cristiano as an editor 13:28:05 q? 13:28:07 ack m 13:28:10 ... also fixed some capitalization issues 13:28:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1988 wot-thing-description Issue 1988 - td:hasInstanceConfiguration used in JSON-LD context is not in the ontology 13:28:29 ca: One thing: While you explaning the changes, I noticed something 13:28:40 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/359 wot-bindig-templates PR 359 - Modbus fixes 13:29:13 ... you mentioned that an "s" was missing, so maybe the Schema was wrong but the ontology was right 13:29:34 ... maybe we need to double check the terms and use plural if required 13:29:58 ek: So you are saying that we need to check with the Modbus specification 13:30:25 ca: The fix itself is correct, so maybe we can add a follow-up issue and check again later 13:30:44 ek: (adds a comment to the issue) 13:30:46 q? 13:30:54 ... thank you, good point 13:31:37 kaz: Thank you very much for your hard work, but at least for the discussion today I am a bit confused, maybe we need to make it a bit clearer what the actual issue was 13:32:02 ... so there is an issue in the TD repository, but a PR in the Binding Template repository 13:32:44 ... so we need to clarify what is wrong on which side and if there is an issue in the TD specification, we might need to consider issuing an errata 13:33:06 ek: So this is only on the side of the Binding Templates repository 13:33:18 ... so we don't need an errata, I think 13:33:42 ... otherwise, it is a human error, one letter makes a big difference 13:33:50 ... no one has noticed it so far 13:34:08 kaz: This implies that we might need an even nicer review mechanism as well 13:34:27 ek: True, but it would also be nice if there was no way to make this mistake 13:34:57 kaz: We could maybe document this and add it to the review policy at some point as well 13:35:14 ek: (updates his comment in the PR) 13:36:18 ... I will not merge this PR so far, please also have look at the changes, Cristiano 13:36:29 ... then we can go to the next topic 13:36:53 topic: Project Management Discussion 13:37:31 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1990 13:37:36 ek: Did not have time to look into versioning again, therefore I would propose going forward with the project management 13:38:01 s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1990|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1990 PR 1990 - Simplified lifecycle diagram| 13:38:03 ... in the PR above we propose a simplification of the process I discussed with the chairs 13:38:25 ... the diagram was a bit too complicated at the top 13:38:35 ... should be a bit easier to understand now 13:39:08 ... also making sure that we have branching based on the decision 13:39:21 ... also, the whole process is now issue-driven 13:39:48 ... issues might be delegated to the use case TF 13:40:35 q+ 13:40:40 ... if an issue is accepted, it will be prioritized and assigned, work will be done via PRs 13:40:50 ack c 13:40:58 ca: Looks good to me 13:41:14 kaz: Thank you very much for this part as well! 13:42:16 q+ to minor: step 8 and 9 seem to be flipped 13:42:30 ack k 13:44:00 dp: Just noticed that steps 8. and 9. are flipped, but it is not a big issue 13:44:00 ack dape 13:44:00 dape, you wanted to minor: step 8 and 9 seem to be flipped 13:44:09 ek: Sure, can adjust this quickly 13:44:33 ... (adds a comment to the PR) 13:44:59 ... I mean, even in this diagram, steps 1 and 2 are from left to right 13:45:09 ... any other points or rejections to the PR? 13:45:23 ... then I will fix these points and merge asynchronously 13:45:41 ek: The other actual thing I wanted to discuss is starting to work this way 13:46:03 ... we have the table and did some categorization, e.g., regarding use case relevance 13:46:26 ... once we have the UC template, we can do that as well 13:46:27 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/fea27c285a44b85e0ef875a50719a426e5a5c9c3/proposals/project-management/project-management.md Rendered MD 13:46:40 ... but in the other aspects, we can already start working this way 13:46:48 q+ 13:46:57 ... do we need a TF resolution for that? 13:47:19 ... I think working this way will make the things we work on more visible 13:47:40 dape has joined #wot-td 13:47:43 kaz: I think giving a quick presentation during the main call would make sure 13:47:58 s/sure/sense/ 13:48:07 ... also we can ask Michael Koster for his opinion 13:48:36 mjk: I just agree 13:49:03 ek: (updates his comment) 13:49:25 s/TF resolution/main call resolution/ 13:50:07 scribe+ 13:51:14 topic: PR 1998 13:51:27 +1 13:51:40 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1998 PR 1998 - Adding ignored paths to GH Action to match prettierignore for prettier changes 13:51:51 (no objections and merged) 13:51:58 topic: PR 1999 13:52:19 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1999 PR 1999 - Term inconsistency among the ontology and context file 13:52:27 ek: is this PR ready? 13:52:35 mn: PR itself is ready, I think 13:52:47 ... but still need to look into Prettier 13:53:10 q+ 13:53:17 q+ 13:54:01 kaz: would confirm the changes 13:54:09 ek: kind of bug fixes 13:54:30 ... moving the description on hasConfigurationInstance and then renamed it 13:54:33 JKRhb has joined #wot-td 13:54:33 ack k 13:54:41 ca: right 13:55:11 ... note the changes include the resources (td.ttl) 13:55:16 dape has joined #wot-td 13:55:27 ack c 13:55:31 ack d 13:55:50 dp: might need an Errata, maybe... 13:55:58 q+ 13:56:26 ack dape 13:56:35 ... we can fix the bug but there was a bug within the spec 13:56:52 ek: right, but the spec HTML itself was correct 13:58:15 kaz: so no issue or problem with the index.html of TD spec 13:59:15 ... but related resources like ontology/td.html and ontology/td.ttl files are to be fixed 13:59:26 ... so it might make sense to describe that on the Errata 14:00:01 ... also we should think about what to be handled by the versioning mechanism and what to be handled by the Errata mechanism as part of our policy 14:00:04 ek: good point 14:01:09 q? 14:01:12 ack k 14:01:28 ... for this problem itself, we should have a follow-up PR for the resources 14:01:50 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1999#issuecomment-2049762587 Ege's note 14:01:55 [adjourned] 14:01:59 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/11-wot-td-minutes.html kaz 16:27:52 Zakim has left #wot-td