IRC log of hcls on 2024-04-04

Timestamps are in UTC.

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logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-hcls-irc
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rrsagent, make logs public
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Meeting: FHIR RDF
14:58:11 [dbooth]
Chair: David Booth
15:01:26 [dbooth]
Topic: DICOM
15:02:15 [dbooth]
s/DICOM/IRI stems
15:03:11 [dbooth]
gaurav: Talking w both Mondo and Radlex about how to represent their URIs in RDF. Proposed a change to Mondo readme file.
15:03:34 [dbooth]
... Radlex, they pointed me to their website and said they are checking on my question.
15:03:53 [dbooth]
https://github.com/monarch-initiative/mondo/pull/7478
15:04:19 [dbooth]
ericp: Mondo was putting curies into strings, right?
15:04:31 [dbooth]
gaurav: We didn't discuss that aspect. Should discuss that also.
15:05:01 [dbooth]
Topic: DICOM
15:05:40 [dbooth]
erich: Issue w lack of suport for null values in RDF lists. Current SPARQL WG is only chartered to work on rdf star.
15:06:21 [dbooth]
... RDF allows a triple to be left off. Makes sense to me to leave it out of RDF list, but syntax doesn't support it.
15:06:43 [dbooth]
ericp: What's the cost of fhir:null if needed?
15:07:08 [dbooth]
erich: If it becomes mixed types it explodes out in JSON.
15:08:35 [TallTed]
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15:10:47 [dbooth]
dbooth: I and a portion of the RDF community views it as a design mistake in the original design of RDF to allow gaps in an RDF list, making it not well-formed.
15:11:31 [dbooth]
erich: I don't understand that, becuase it works fine in RDF.
15:12:17 [dbooth]
... In DICOM JSON they put null. But can't do that in JSON-LD.
15:16:08 [dbooth]
dbooth: It's a TBox assertion, not ABox. It's an assertion about the schema, saying that there is a normally a value for that property,
15:17:14 [dbooth]
ericp: OWL says lists cannot be changed by inference.
15:17:26 [dbooth]
... OWL rejects any attempt to put axioms in an RDF list where the nodes are not bnodes.
15:18:36 [dbooth]
erich: The restriction is for OWL compatibility? ericp: Yes. They needed a building block for places to close the world on lists, and OWL uses lists for stating things.
15:18:56 [dbooth]
... Needed to make sure you werenn't messing with the foundation for their inference.
15:19:10 [dbooth]
erich: Restriction is to make it a closed list? ericp: Yes.
15:19:24 [dbooth]
... Is there a feature for open lists?
15:20:06 [dbooth]
ericp: There are OLO lists.
15:20:32 [dbooth]
dbooth: Not part of the RDF/OWL standards, and no syntax support for it.
15:21:04 [dbooth]
erich: Is it legal to manipulate lists in OWL?
15:21:37 [dbooth]
ericp: If you have an OWL ont and it has "all distinct" and you ___ OWL will reject it.
15:28:13 [dbooth]
ericp: If you leave gaps in lists it will be harder to work w OWL.
15:29:24 [dbooth]
... I think the fastest path forward would be a fhir:null
15:30:05 [dbooth]
erich: Literals become an issue. How to handle it in the JSON processing? Could say "If you see this, replace it w a null"?
15:31:12 [dbooth]
ericp: Could invent jsonld:null value, for use in Turtle.
15:32:53 [dbooth]
dbooth; you'd run headlong into the issue that pat hayes.
15:42:16 [dbooth]
ericp: We want something to stick in the list, for JSON-LD.
15:44:02 [dbooth]
ericp: It needs to show up in triples somehow, such as jsonld:null
15:46:36 [dbooth]
ACTION: EricP to follow up on email list
15:47:32 [dbooth]
josh: A bnode feels right
15:48:23 [dbooth]
ericp: You can't merge two RDF lists.
15:59:19 [dbooth]
Present: Gaurav Vaidya, Rob Hausam, Detleff Grittner, Josh Moore, EricP, David Booth, Erich Bremer
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ADJOURNED
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I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-hcls-minutes.html dbooth