14:57:58 RRSAgent has joined #hcls 14:58:03 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-hcls-irc 14:58:04 rrsagent, make logs public 14:58:08 Meeting: FHIR RDF 14:58:11 Chair: David Booth 15:01:26 Topic: DICOM 15:02:15 s/DICOM/IRI stems 15:03:11 gaurav: Talking w both Mondo and Radlex about how to represent their URIs in RDF. Proposed a change to Mondo readme file. 15:03:34 ... Radlex, they pointed me to their website and said they are checking on my question. 15:03:53 https://github.com/monarch-initiative/mondo/pull/7478 15:04:19 ericp: Mondo was putting curies into strings, right? 15:04:31 gaurav: We didn't discuss that aspect. Should discuss that also. 15:05:01 Topic: DICOM 15:05:40 erich: Issue w lack of suport for null values in RDF lists. Current SPARQL WG is only chartered to work on rdf star. 15:06:21 ... RDF allows a triple to be left off. Makes sense to me to leave it out of RDF list, but syntax doesn't support it. 15:06:43 ericp: What's the cost of fhir:null if needed? 15:07:08 erich: If it becomes mixed types it explodes out in JSON. 15:08:35 TallTed has joined #hcls 15:10:47 dbooth: I and a portion of the RDF community views it as a design mistake in the original design of RDF to allow gaps in an RDF list, making it not well-formed. 15:11:31 erich: I don't understand that, becuase it works fine in RDF. 15:12:17 ... In DICOM JSON they put null. But can't do that in JSON-LD. 15:16:08 dbooth: It's a TBox assertion, not ABox. It's an assertion about the schema, saying that there is a normally a value for that property, 15:17:14 ericp: OWL says lists cannot be changed by inference. 15:17:26 ... OWL rejects any attempt to put axioms in an RDF list where the nodes are not bnodes. 15:18:36 erich: The restriction is for OWL compatibility? ericp: Yes. They needed a building block for places to close the world on lists, and OWL uses lists for stating things. 15:18:56 ... Needed to make sure you werenn't messing with the foundation for their inference. 15:19:10 erich: Restriction is to make it a closed list? ericp: Yes. 15:19:24 ... Is there a feature for open lists? 15:20:06 ericp: There are OLO lists. 15:20:32 dbooth: Not part of the RDF/OWL standards, and no syntax support for it. 15:21:04 erich: Is it legal to manipulate lists in OWL? 15:21:37 ericp: If you have an OWL ont and it has "all distinct" and you ___ OWL will reject it. 15:28:13 ericp: If you leave gaps in lists it will be harder to work w OWL. 15:29:24 ... I think the fastest path forward would be a fhir:null 15:30:05 erich: Literals become an issue. How to handle it in the JSON processing? Could say "If you see this, replace it w a null"? 15:31:12 ericp: Could invent jsonld:null value, for use in Turtle. 15:32:53 dbooth; you'd run headlong into the issue that pat hayes. 15:42:16 ericp: We want something to stick in the list, for JSON-LD. 15:44:02 ericp: It needs to show up in triples somehow, such as jsonld:null 15:46:36 ACTION: EricP to follow up on email list 15:47:32 josh: A bnode feels right 15:48:23 ericp: You can't merge two RDF lists. 15:59:19 Present: Gaurav Vaidya, Rob Hausam, Detleff Grittner, Josh Moore, EricP, David Booth, Erich Bremer 15:59:24 ADJOURNED 15:59:40 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:59:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/04/04-hcls-minutes.html dbooth