15:55:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:55:30 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-irc
15:55:31 <ktk> meeting:  RDF-Star WG biweekly meeting
15:55:48 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20240321T120000/
15:55:48 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:55:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
15:55:48 <agendabot> agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion -> 3 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20240321T120000/TBD
15:55:49 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
15:55:51 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
15:55:54 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at -> 6 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
15:55:56 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:57:05 <ktk> Regrets: enrico, Dominik_T
15:58:02 <AndyS> present+
15:58:31 <tl> present+
16:00:18 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #rdf-star
16:00:32 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:00:34 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:00:46 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #rdf-star
16:00:51 <Tpt> Regrets for today
16:01:14 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
16:01:20 <ktk> Regrets+ Tpt
16:02:01 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
16:02:01 <olaf> present+
16:02:05 <niklasl> present+
16:02:05 <pfps> present+
16:02:06 <eBremer> present+
16:02:09 <ora> present+
16:02:09 <fsasaki> present+
16:02:09 <ktk> Scribe: tl
16:02:12 <doerthe> present+
16:02:15 <ora> chair: ora
16:03:11 <ktk> Regrets: gkellog
16:03:43 <ktk> Zakim, open item 1
16:03:43 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two meetings: -> 1 https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html , -> 2 https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-rdf-star-minutes.html --
16:03:46 <Zakim> ... taken up [from agendabot]
16:03:48 <AndyS> zakim, who is on the phone?
16:03:48 <Zakim> Present: AndyS, tl, olaf, niklasl, pfps, eBremer, ora, fsasaki, doerthe
16:03:59 <pchampin> pchampin has changed the topic to: RDF-Star WG -- 2024-03-21 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20240321T120000/
16:04:08 <pfps> Both minutes look fine.
16:04:09 <tl> ora: look at minutes - any worries, concerns?
16:04:23 <ora> q?
16:04:42 <AndyS> LGTM
16:04:43 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's minutes https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:04:50 <ora> +1
16:04:52 <pchampin> +1
16:04:53 <tl> +1
16:04:53 <pfps> +1
16:04:54 <AndyS> +1
16:04:54 <niklasl> +1
16:05:02 <pfps> And two weeks ago minutes
16:05:06 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:05:19 <AZ> present+
16:05:20 <pfps> The pointer it to two weeks ago, not last week.
16:05:26 <pfps> s/it/is/
16:05:35 <olaf> +1
16:05:47 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's and two week's agos minutes https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:06:12 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Accept last week's and two week's agos minutes https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html and https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:06:16 <ora> +1
16:06:21 <pchampin> +1
16:06:23 <niklasl> +1
16:06:23 <tl> +1
16:06:24 <pfps> +1
16:06:28 <ora> s/agos/ago
16:06:28 <gtw> +1
16:06:43 <olaf> +1
16:06:49 <ktk> +1
16:06:53 <AndyS> +1
16:06:59 <doerthe> +1
16:07:04 <AZ> +1
16:07:10 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Accept last week's and two week's agos minutes https://www.w3.org/2024/03/07-rdf-star-minutes.html and https://www.w3.org/2024/03/14-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:07:19 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:07:19 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Proposal for next week's discussion -> 3 https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20240321T120000/TBD -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:07:37 <pfps> The link for "next week's discussion" is broken.
16:07:38 <tl> ora: topic for next week
16:07:38 <AndyS> q?
16:07:44 <AndyS> q+
16:08:06 <ora> ack AndyS
16:08:20 <tl> andy: meta suggestion - do we need 2 hours?
16:08:49 <ktk> q+
16:08:56 <ora> ack ktk
16:09:20 <tl> ktk: alternating?
16:09:29 <tl> andy: yes, still alternating
16:10:00 <niklasl> +1 to alternate admin/tech. I think 1 h still may be a bit too little at times? 1.5?
16:11:04 <tl> ora: would like to have the option to talk longer when the need arises
16:11:37 <tl> ... and we do know in advance what we talk about, so could plan accordingly
16:12:15 <tl> ... proposal: go for 1 hour meetings every time, extend if needed, always start at the same time
16:12:49 <ora> PROPOSAL: Let's go back to 1 hr per week, still alternating between administrative and substantive discussions
16:13:01 <ktk> Regrets+ souri
16:13:03 <ora> +1
16:13:06 <pchampin> +1
16:13:07 <ktk> +1
16:13:09 <niklasl> +1
16:13:12 <doerthe> +1
16:13:12 <tl> +1
16:13:15 <olaf> +1
16:13:17 <AndyS> +1
16:13:17 <AZ> +1
16:13:24 <ktk> present+
16:13:32 <eBremer> +1
16:13:34 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:13:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:13:37 <gtw> +1
16:13:44 <ora> RESOLVED: Let's go back to 1 hr per week, still alternating between administrative and substantive discussions
16:13:46 <ktk> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:14:02 <niklasl> q+
16:14:07 <tl> ora: what do want to talk about next week?
16:14:32 <ktk> Regrets+ Dominik_T, enrico
16:14:56 <tl> ... proposal: talk about if a single id can name more than one triple occurrence
16:15:04 <tl> ... a bit worried about that
16:15:45 <ktk> q?
16:16:31 <ora> ack niklasl
16:16:34 <tl> s/one triple occurrence/one triple term
16:16:35 <pchampin> +1, "one triple" rather than "one triple occurrence"
16:16:38 <olaf> indeed, "... more than one triple term"
16:17:24 <tl> niklasl: un-starring a related topic, also RDF/XML
16:17:47 <tl> ... s/name/reify
16:19:04 <tl> s/single id can name/single id can reify
16:19:36 <AZ> I think you need to add a "/" at the end
16:20:21 <AZ> s|... s/name/reify||
16:20:44 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Discuss if a single id can reify more than one triple?
16:21:06 <tl> +1
16:21:07 <niklasl> +1
16:21:10 <doerthe> +1
16:21:13 <gtw> +1
16:21:15 <AZ> +0
16:21:16 <ktk> +1
16:21:16 <olaf> +1
16:21:19 <eBremer> +1
16:21:20 <ora> +1
16:21:24 <AndyS> +1
16:21:29 <pchampin> +1
16:21:41 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Discuss if a single id can reify more than one triple?
16:21:53 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:21:53 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:21:58 <ktk> q?
16:22:27 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:22:27 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, ktk
16:22:32 <ktk> Zakim, close item 3
16:22:32 <Zakim> agendum 3, Review of open actions, available at -> 4 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3, closed
16:22:34 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:22:34 <Zakim> 4. Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 [from agendabot]
16:22:45 <ktk> Zakim, open item 4
16:22:45 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -> 5 https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4 -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:23:06 <ora> q?
16:23:06 <pfps> q+
16:23:36 <pchampin> w3c/sparql-query#143
16:23:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/pull/143 -> Pull Request 143 RDF is a model, not a format (by TallTed) [spec:editorial]
16:23:44 <tl> andy: will handle editorial issue in line 4
16:23:47 <ora> ack pfps
16:24:12 <tl> peter: mobile phone fiasco doesn't disappear
16:24:21 <niklasl> q+
16:24:58 <ora> ack niklasl
16:25:03 <tl> ... most of our documents currently have very bad user interface
16:25:04 <ktk> q+
16:25:11 <tl> ... proposal to do it right
16:25:31 <tl> niklasl: trurtle and trig not ready because of semantics issue
16:25:42 <tl> ... naming of annotations
16:25:53 <tl> s/trurtle/turtle
16:25:57 <ora> ack ktk
16:26:08 <tl> ... (not related to mobile phone issue)
16:27:01 <tl> ktk: we would have to go through different documents (the vast majority of them)
16:27:17 <AndyS> w3c/sparql-federated-query#17
16:27:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-federated-query/pull/17 -> Pull Request 17 again... model, not format (by TallTed) [spec:editorial]
16:27:27 <tl> peter: can we undo old commits that cause problems?
16:27:58 <tl> ktk: should we fix one document, and then follow through with all the others?
16:28:27 <tl> peter: that was the plan, with the semantics document, but we never had an agreement about the desired end state
16:28:38 <tl> ... and my proposal would be "no change"
16:28:44 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #rdf-star
16:28:52 <tl> ... which would mean revert all changes
16:29:36 <tl> ora: we need good user experience also on mobile devices
16:29:46 <tl> ... and we need consistency across all documents
16:30:04 <tl> ... but, how to do that is not clear to me
16:30:24 <tl> ... does that involve changes to what we had before?
16:31:05 <tl> peter: how to handle small view ports is a contentious issue
16:31:08 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/30#issuecomment-1611284097
16:31:08 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/30 -> Pull Request 30 improve display on mobile phones (by domel) [spec:editorial]
16:31:40 <tl> ktk: pchampin, can you (???)
16:31:57 <tl> pchampin: not sure how to assess what a good solution is
16:32:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, pointer?
16:32:02 <RRSAgent> See https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-irc#T16-32-02
16:32:04 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:32:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:32:22 <tl> ... leaning towards reverting the changes, as peter suggests
16:32:42 <tl> ... dominique's changes (???)
16:32:54 <TallTed> i/RRSAgent, pointer?/present+ TallTed
16:32:55 <tl> ... CSS should be reverted to W3C standard
16:33:24 <ora> q?
16:33:29 <tl> ktk: pchampin and me will give it a try
16:33:32 <TallTed> q+
16:33:41 <ora> ack TallTed
16:34:24 <tl> tallted: other groups probably have the same issues, maybe pchampin can gather some feedback from there
16:35:23 <tl> ora: let's revert, and then lets figure out who we need to go to to reach closer to perfection
16:35:31 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:35:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:38:13 <AndyS> q+
16:38:45 <pfps> q+
16:38:47 <tl> Niklasl: added comment to PR mentioned in Dominik's mail from today
16:39:18 <AndyS> q+ to talk about sparql-federated-query PR
16:39:31 <pchampin> w3c/rdf-concepts#66
16:39:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/66 -> Pull Request 66 Updates rdf:JSON value space. (by gkellogg) [spec:substantive]
16:39:43 <tl> ktk: will get back to gregg and peter disagreeing on JSON value space
16:39:53 <ora> ack AndyS
16:39:53 <Zakim> AndyS, you wanted to talk about sparql-federated-query PR
16:39:55 <pfps> The issue for rdf:JSON value space is that there needs to be an absolutely firm definintion of the value space and I don't see one now.
16:40:12 <ora> ack pfps
16:40:33 <tl> peter: can't see a definition of the value space
16:40:43 <tl> ... sorry, lexical space
16:41:28 <tl> ... lexical space is decimal and doesn't work with binary precision
16:42:09 <tl> ... text is defering to unspecified procedures
16:42:41 <pchampin> q+
16:42:55 <ora> ack pchampin
16:43:03 <pchampin> https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/
16:43:15 <tl> ... procedures not precisely defined
16:43:51 <pfps> q+
16:43:58 <tl> pchampin: this doc defines a transformation, maybe this could be brought in to help
16:44:04 <ktk> https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_754-1985
16:44:26 <tl> ktk: is this something different?
16:45:17 <AndyS> also - https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema-2/#double (esp last para)
16:45:29 <tl> peter: this talks about some of the issues, but again doesn't say which decimal numbers should be used to represent a floating point number
16:46:09 <tl> andy: xml schema says something about that
16:46:32 <tl> ora: hates floating point numbers and suggests to get rid of them entirely
16:47:10 <tl> ktk: will try to work out a solution together with gregg and peter
16:47:51 <tl> peter: xml schema doesn't have a canonical representation for floating point
16:48:15 <TallTed> https://www.w3.org/TR/2004/REC-xmlschema-2-20041028/datatypes.xml#float-canonical-representation
16:48:36 <AndyS> https://www.w3.org/TR/xpath-functions-31/
16:48:48 <pfps> https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/
16:49:12 <tl> s/peter/pfps
16:49:58 <TallTed> https://www.w3.org/TR/xmlschema11-2/#f-doubleCanmap
16:51:32 <tl> s/peter:/pfps:/g
16:52:13 <tl> pfps: will add comment to issue
16:52:21 <tl> ora: to be revisited
16:52:55 <pchampin> w3c/sparql-federated-query#17
16:52:56 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sparql-federated-query/pull/17 -> Pull Request 17 again... model, not format (by TallTed) [spec:editorial]
16:54:35 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:54:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:55:14 <pchampin> present+
16:55:16 <gtw> present+
16:55:22 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:55:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:55:30 <TallTed> Zakim, who's here?
16:55:30 <Zakim> Present: AndyS, tl, olaf, niklasl, pfps, eBremer, ora, fsasaki, doerthe, AZ, ktk, pchampin, gtw
16:55:30 <Zakim> On IRC I see TallTed, AZ, niklasl, ora, fsasaki, doerthe, olaf, eBremer, RRSAgent, Zakim, AndyS, pfps, tl, agendabot, ktk, Tpt, pchampin, driib5, gb, gtw, csarven, rhiaro,
16:55:30 <Zakim> ... AnthonySpencer, VladimirAlexiev, SintayewGashaw, Timothe, smoothsalt, joraboi445
16:56:13 <ktk> Regrets+ Tpt
16:57:45 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:57:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:58:14 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
16:59:01 <ktk> heh
16:59:06 <ktk> pchampin: can you add that to the issue?
16:59:55 <ktk> that seems to contain quite some research
17:00:58 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/03/15-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:01:04 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/03/22-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:01:09 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:01:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/21-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:02:46 <ktk> ah ok
17:02:59 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
17:02:59 <RRSAgent> I see no action items