IRC log of schemata-discussion on 2024-03-12
Timestamps are in UTC.
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- logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-irc
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- RRSAgent, do not leave
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- Meeting: Schemata Discussion - Follow up from TPAC23
- 12:09:57 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Chair: Ege Korkan
- 12:09:57 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Agenda: https://github.com/w3c/breakouts-day-2024/issues/15
- 12:09:57 [Zakim]
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- Zakim, clear agenda
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- agenda cleared
- 12:09:57 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Zakim, agenda+ Pick a scribe
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- agendum 1 added
- 12:09:58 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Zakim, agenda+ Reminders: code of conduct, health policies, recorded session policy
- 12:09:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 added
- 12:09:59 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Zakim, agenda+ Goal of this session
- 12:09:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 added
- 12:09:59 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Zakim, agenda+ Discussion
- 12:10:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 added
- 12:10:00 [tpac-breakout-bot]
- Zakim, agenda+ Next steps / where discussion continues
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- agendum 5 added
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- 12:13:55 [tidoust]
- tidoust has changed the topic to: Breakout: Schemata Discussion - Follow up from TPAC23 - Kora - 14:00-15:00 UTC
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- 13:59:48 [kaz]
- scribenick: JKRhb
- 13:59:55 [ivan]
- present+
- 14:00:17 [Ege]
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- 14:00:27 [kaz]
- meeting: Schemata Discussion - Follow up from TPAC23
- 14:01:33 [betehess]
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- 14:01:37 [kaz]
- present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Marcel_Otto, Peter_Bruhn_Andersen, Alexandre_Bertails, Ivan_Herman, J-Y_Rossi, Jan_Romann, Klaus_Hartke, Michael_McCool, Octavian_Nadolu, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Christian_Glomb
- 14:01:54 [kaz]
- present+ Vladmir_Alexiev
- 14:02:08 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
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- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:02:13 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz
- 14:02:20 [JKRhb]
- topic: Intro
- 14:02:21 [JKRhb]
- ek: We can start
- 14:02:21 [Octavian_Nadolu]
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- 14:02:24 [JKRhb]
- ... welcome everyone
- 14:02:35 [ktoumura_]
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- 14:02:35 [pebran]
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- 14:02:38 [JKRhb]
- ... session is called Schemata Follow Up from TPAC2023
- 14:02:41 [Tomo]
- present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
- 14:02:50 [marcelotto]
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- 14:02:53 [JKRhb]
- ... Jan is taking minutes
- 14:03:00 [JKRhb]
- ... will skip the introduction round
- 14:03:09 [McCool]
- present+
- 14:03:17 [VladimirAlexiev_]
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- 14:03:20 [JKRhb]
- ... due to large turnout, please introduce yourself before speaking
- 14:03:23 [McCool]
- present+ Michael_McCool
- 14:03:28 [kaz]
- present+ Thomas_Wehr
- 14:03:45 [kaz]
- present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
- 14:03:47 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:03:48 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz
- 14:04:11 [JKRhb]
- ... meetings are under two polices: Antitrust and competition policy, encourage competition, furthermore we encourage a good work environment
- 14:04:30 [JKRhb]
- ... context is to share experience and find a place within W3C for discussion
- 14:04:47 [JKRhb]
- ... required background is some knowledge of SHACL and JSON-LD
- 14:04:51 [JKRhb]
- topic: Presentation
- 14:04:52 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- present+ Vladimir Alexiev
- 14:05:19 [JKRhb]
- ek: Maybe we have met before, we have hosted a session with Pierre-Antoine before at TPAC
- 14:05:22 [betehess]
- new
- 14:05:26 [marcelotto]
- new
- 14:05:28 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- new
- 14:05:32 [pebran]
- new
- 14:05:33 [JKRhb]
- ... if you haven't been there, please write "new" into the IRC
- 14:05:42 [kaz]
- present+ Ben_Hutton, Dorthe_Arndt
- 14:05:43 [JKRhb]
- ... however, I also prepared a brief intro
- 14:05:53 [JKRhb]
- ... there a few new people here, I see
- 14:06:23 [JKRhb]
- ek: We have slides from previous sessions, which you can look at
- 14:06:39 [doerthe]
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- 14:06:57 [JKRhb]
- ek: As quick summary, you have different kinds of schema approaches, and if you have a specification that uses different concepts, it becomes hard to manage
- 14:07:17 [JKRhb]
- ... in WoT TD, for example, we have the spec document itself
- 14:07:20 [JKRhb]
- ... ontology documents
- 14:07:24 [JKRhb]
- ... SHACL shapes
- 14:07:28 [JKRhb]
- ... JSON Schema files
- 14:07:38 [JKRhb]
- ... type and class definitions in TypeScript
- 14:07:43 [JKRhb]
- ... tests and examples
- 14:07:54 [JKRhb]
- ... all need to be managed, updated and published
- 14:08:15 [JKRhb]
- ... we have some tooling, but we still have to do some manual work
- 14:08:37 [JKRhb]
- ... soon, we will also have a registry for Binding Documents, where authors will also face these issues
- 14:08:52 [JKRhb]
- ek: Previous presentations were given by Chris Mungell and @@@
- 14:08:59 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- see https://github.com/json-ld/yaml-ld/issues/19 for more "polyglot modeling" approaches/frameworks
- 14:09:14 [JKRhb]
- ek: The work so far included an analysis by the WoT WG
- 14:09:26 [JKRhb]
- ... concerning versioning, packaging, and serving resources
- 14:09:46 [JKRhb]
- ... we can discuss how to continue this in the last 10 minutes of this slot
- 14:10:06 [JKRhb]
- ek: Mahda did most of the work for this presentation actually, but she is currently not available
- 14:10:16 [JKRhb]
- ... all resources are available on GitHub
- 14:10:33 [kaz]
- present+ David
- 14:10:46 [JKRhb]
- ek: So far, we were creating a very complicated diagram summarizing the very complicated process that has to be done with every PR
- 14:10:51 [kaz]
- present+ Dominik_Tomaszuk, Elodie_Thieblin
- 14:11:02 [JKRhb]
- ... for example, the JSON Schema needs to be updated or rendering needs to be triggered
- 14:11:13 [JKRhb]
- ... we are not very proud of it, it is quite messy
- 14:11:28 [JKRhb]
- ek: We have then been looking into alternative tooling to make our lives easier
- 14:11:48 [JKRhb]
- ... and collected metrics and other aspects for comparison in a table
- 14:12:12 [JKRhb]
- ... for example, the handling of different value representations, inheritance, or unknown object keys
- 14:12:45 [JKRhb]
- ... at the moment, we are in favor of using LinkML in the future, but we have not decided yet and this is not is the topic of this session
- 14:12:59 [JKRhb]
- ... but we want to collect feedback from the tool authors themselves
- 14:13:12 [JKRhb]
- ... as Vladimir Alexiev has already done, thank you for that
- 14:13:32 [JKRhb]
- ... we want to update our requirements accordingly, to make sure that the process is transparent
- 14:13:43 [JKRhb]
- ... any questions so far regarding the analysis or the diagram?
- 14:13:48 [JKRhb]
- No questions so far
- 14:13:57 [dezell]
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- 14:14:07 [JKRhb]
- ek: If you have any questions, then please join the IRC and write "q+"
- 14:14:20 [JKRhb]
- ek: So we have all of these resources, but there is still a missing point
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- 14:14:33 [dezell]
- present+ David_Ezell
- 14:14:39 [JKRhb]
- ... so in the WoT WG, we have a repo with GitHub pages available
- 14:14:54 [JKRhb]
- ... after publishing, the W3C team contact adjusts the redirection
- 14:14:57 [ethieblin]
- present+ elodie.thieblin
- 14:15:12 [JKRhb]
- ... in general, you can consider this uploading software to a web server
- 14:15:22 [JKRhb]
- ... and there is no standardized way to handle this
- 14:15:26 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- I've seen many communities that face the same problem: electrical CIM, traceability in trade, GS1 EPCIS in logistics, ACORD in insurance, IFC in AECO etc etc
- 14:15:39 [JKRhb]
- ... and this process is too slow for our release cycle
- 14:15:44 [JKRhb]
- ek: Can we do better?
- 14:15:52 [JKRhb]
- ... we have a PR that tries to address this
- 14:16:12 [JKRhb]
- ... we need better tooling, could rely on package managers
- 14:16:30 [JKRhb]
- ... Klaus Hartke has done some work of using npm for this kind of thing
- 14:16:35 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- For the Traceability community, I asked them to consider LinkML: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/issues/295
- 14:17:06 [JKRhb]
- ... in the JSON Schema world they are using custom registries (?)
- 14:17:18 [JKRhb]
- ek: So this finishes the summary for now
- 14:17:23 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- More importantly, I wrote up some draft Requirements for such tooling: https://github.com/w3c-ccg/traceability-vocab/issues/296. This could complement the comparison table that WoT showed
- 14:17:26 [JKRhb]
- ... wanted to keep it brief
- 14:17:28 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:17:29 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz
- 14:17:47 [JKRhb]
- ... in the TPAC 2023 discussion, there was the question of where the discussion should continue
- 14:17:52 [kaz]
- q+
- 14:18:01 [JKRhb]
- ... not necessarily needed to standardize something like LinkML
- 14:18:26 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:18:42 [JKRhb]
- ... but there needs to be some process or best practices in my opinion, if anyone has other thoughts, please make a comment
- 14:18:50 [JKRhb]
- ... any questions?
- 14:18:54 [Ege]
- https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/193OFcFaxD0GqrRuOggwZe5eorgL1C1Epe2cAYN3JEkk/edit?usp=sharing
- 14:19:11 [JKRhb]
- kaz: A comment regarding logistics: Please paste the link of the slides into the IRC
- 14:19:39 [JKRhb]
- ... another comment: please list the important questions in the slides
- 14:19:47 [JKRhb]
- ... like tooling, versioning, and so on
- 14:20:01 [JKRhb]
- ek: (Updates the slides)
- 14:20:10 [kaz]
- i|Maybe we have met|-> https://docs.google.com/presentation/d/193OFcFaxD0GqrRuOggwZe5eorgL1C1Epe2cAYN3JEkk/edit?usp=sharing Slides|
- 14:20:13 [JKRhb]
- ... if there are any points, we can categorize them accordingly
- 14:20:14 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- .. communities: also AAS (industrial Digital Twins, i.e. Industry 4.0 / RAMI)
- 14:20:25 [JKRhb]
- ... in the IRC, there were some comments by Vladimir
- 14:20:36 [JKRhb]
- ... saying, that others have been suffering the same issues?
- 14:20:55 [JKRhb]
- va: I have been seeing the same issues in other communities as well
- 14:21:16 [JKRhb]
- ... many communities want to use both JSON Schema and JSON-LD, and they need to be in sync
- 14:21:32 [JKRhb]
- ... in some cases, they want to borrow schemas from other people and mix and match them
- 14:21:51 [JKRhb]
- ... in some cases, the results are mixed, in others they are very bad
- 14:22:00 [JKRhb]
- ... as many ontologies come with their own baggage
- 14:22:16 [JKRhb]
- ... also difficult if you are relying on a schema in XML
- 14:22:50 [JKRhb]
- va: In particular the Trade Transparency group has been working on related topics
- 14:23:09 [JKRhb]
- ... find this very interesting to see how semantic technologies spread into these communities
- 14:23:17 [JKRhb]
- ... on the other hand, these people need some help
- 14:23:30 [JKRhb]
- ... need guidance how to use RDF properly
- 14:24:00 [JKRhb]
- ... even simple things, how to model triples with literals (?)
- 14:24:37 [JKRhb]
- ... in RDF, we have infinite precision, in the case of conventional JSON numbers, we don't
- 14:24:39 [betehess]
- q+
- 14:24:46 [kaz]
- q-
- 14:24:51 [JKRhb]
- va: The importance of this discussion is very very high
- 14:25:00 [JKRhb]
- ... question how to get RDF into more communities
- 14:25:13 [JKRhb]
- ... that try to use it, but don't get it right yet
- 14:25:29 [JKRhb]
- ... question how W3C can help these communities
- 14:25:54 [JKRhb]
- ek: Thank you for your comments, tried to update the presentation with the links form the minutes
- 14:26:01 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:26:07 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- The import is: how can the sem web community help other data communities "graduate" into linked data?
- 14:26:15 [JKRhb]
- ... could you elaborate on the Trade Transparency group?
- 14:26:17 [JKRhb]
- va: Will do
- 14:26:28 [JKRhb]
- ab: Quick introduction:
- 14:26:36 [JKRhb]
- ... work at Netflix on an ontology service
- 14:26:54 [JKRhb]
- ... this group is exactly discussing what we are trying to solve
- 14:27:11 [JKRhb]
- ... try to combine schemas with ontologies (?)
- 14:27:21 [JKRhb]
- ... we tried using SHACL, has been working okay so far
- 14:27:42 [JKRhb]
- ... issue is that people need to learn RDF and SHACL, which is difficult
- 14:27:57 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- Another example: AAS is a very important spec in Industrial IoT. But they have fundamental issues that go against the Web Architecture, eg https://github.com/admin-shell-io/aas-specs/issues/383. See https://github.com/admin-shell-io/aas-specs/issues/384 for a list of issues
- 14:27:57 [JKRhb]
- ... we have a problem of discovery, how to discover ontologies?
- 14:28:15 [JKRhb]
- ... question how to combine schemas and ontologies
- 14:28:43 [JKRhb]
- ... very much interested in talking to people, standardization, wich we would like to see at some point
- 14:28:49 [JKRhb]
- s/wich/which/
- 14:29:18 [JKRhb]
- ek: Thank you, you've mentioned that you get a lot questions regarding SHACL, do you have problems with adaption?
- 14:29:32 [JKRhb]
- ab: Problem is that SHACL is way too powerful
- 14:29:42 [JKRhb]
- ... difficult to map to a schema
- 14:30:11 [JKRhb]
- ... tried to create a subset of SHACL that is powerful enough to write meaningful ontologies which you can then project onto GraphQL for example
- 14:30:17 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:30:19 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz
- 14:30:25 [JKRhb]
- ek: I think I can relate a bit with that
- 14:30:25 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- Another example: the Allotrope community (lab equipment measurements). It is very active and does things right. They use JSON-LD in nice ways
- 14:30:50 [JKRhb]
- ... I think a main problem is that @@@
- 14:31:00 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:31:05 [JKRhb]
- ... they have trouble seeing the benefit of switching
- 14:31:09 [betehess]
- q-
- 14:31:28 [JKRhb]
- ek: There has been some discussion on standardization or not
- 14:31:38 [JKRhb]
- ... in my point of view, there wasn't the need yet
- 14:31:47 [JKRhb]
- ... question: What should be standardized?
- 14:32:05 [JKRhb]
- ... some aspects from the table could be standardized, but the tools are already quite stable already
- 14:32:22 [JKRhb]
- ... not sure about the benefits, other that it would give more credibility
- 14:32:23 [betehess]
- q+
- 14:32:50 [JKRhb]
- ab: I consider the main issue with this slide related to standardization
- 14:33:07 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- q+
- 14:33:20 [JKRhb]
- ... how to we make sure that our projection to GraphQL, for example, is correct and can be injected into an ontology?
- 14:33:30 [ivan]
- q+
- 14:33:39 [ivan]
- ack betehess
- 14:33:50 [JKRhb]
- ek: From my point of view, it is mostly a tooling question, with LinkML you could go to the other representations
- 14:34:08 [JKRhb]
- ab: Yeah, for of people it would be about tooling, for us it would be about meaning
- 14:34:20 [JKRhb]
- ek: Guaranteeing that there is no information loss?
- 14:34:35 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:34:36 [JKRhb]
- ab: Yeah, and the information is represented correctly
- 14:35:06 [JKRhb]
- va: I feel very much all of the questions that have been raised as we are facing similar issues
- 14:35:41 [JKRhb]
- ... I tried to create a community for canonical mapping between SHACL and RDF(?)
- 14:35:58 [ivan]
- s/RDF(?)/Shex/
- 14:35:59 [JKRhb]
- ... SHACL is very useful to build UIs
- 14:37:37 [JKRhb]
- ... so the question is how to use most common subset of SHACL. How to use with GraphQL and translate to SPARQL and use certain more complex joins
- 14:38:03 [JKRhb]
- ... very important how to transform without losing meaning
- 14:38:11 [betehess]
- +1 on being lossless. That's our main concern here at Netflix.
- 14:38:26 [JKRhb]
- ek: Just one point
- 14:38:42 [JKRhb]
- ... you've mentioned that there are GraphQL implementation that use RDF?
- 14:38:52 [JKRhb]
- ... could you repeat that?
- 14:38:56 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:38:57 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz
- 14:39:04 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:39:04 [Ege]
- ack v
- 14:39:11 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- GraphQL implementations over RDF, and benchmarks (there's LinGBM and a couple smaller ones): https://www.zotero.org/groups/5393345/semantic_graphql
- 14:39:12 [JKRhb]
- va: I have Zotero library with resources regarding this topic, I will send you a link
- 14:39:25 [JKRhb]
- ih: I have seen similar problems before
- 14:39:29 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- q-
- 14:39:46 [JKRhb]
- ... I am currently participating in the @@@ WG, there have been similar issues
- 14:40:21 [JKRhb]
- ... Pierre-Antoine mentioned similar issues, there are slight differences between different languages, making it hard to convert
- 14:40:38 [JKRhb]
- ... one thing we've seen was that SHACL and shex cannot model dataset
- 14:40:43 [kaz]
- s/@@@ WG/Verifiable Credentials WG/
- 14:41:01 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- Holger Knublauch is convening a SHACL 1.2 CG that should address named-graphs
- 14:41:17 [JKRhb]
- ... typical problems, can't imagine what we will face with the introduction of RDF 1.2
- 14:41:49 [JKRhb]
- ih: What I am critical of is the problems JSON-LD introduces
- 14:42:13 [JKRhb]
- ... as it both sold as a serialization of RDF but also as plain JSON
- 14:42:26 [JKRhb]
- ... inherit problem of JSON-LD, not sure how to solve it
- 14:42:51 [JKRhb]
- ... one thing I've seen in communities was a misunderstanding of JSON-LD context files
- 14:43:01 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:43:11 [JKRhb]
- ... as context files can be seen as a glorified mapping file
- 14:43:14 [betehess]
- q+
- 14:43:16 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- "@context" is not an ontology, and it is not a schema: it's only a mapping from JSON to ontology terms
- 14:43:58 [JKRhb]
- ... we need to work on making these discrepancies disappear, but I am not really optimistic, as all of these schematas are not the same
- 14:44:18 [JKRhb]
- ... should not create yet another standard (in the XKCD sense)
- 14:44:41 [JKRhb]
- ... but we need to be aware of the discrepancies before we can go to the tools
- 14:45:08 [JKRhb]
- ek: Thank you, very good points, the double nature of JSON-LD is exactly why we are facing these kinds of problems
- 14:45:15 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:45:18 [JKRhb]
- ih: I have seen this in many communities before
- 14:45:24 [ivan]
- ack ivan
- 14:45:27 [ivan]
- ack betehess
- 14:45:31 [JKRhb]
- ab: I agree so much with what Ivan just said
- 14:45:42 [JKRhb]
- ... we are facing the same problems at Netflix
- 14:46:02 [JKRhb]
- ... JSON-LD was not a problem so far, everyone is using Turtle and that is working as expected
- 14:46:37 [JKRhb]
- ... the lack of definition of issues has been an issue, question how to import an asset (?)
- 14:47:18 [JKRhb]
- ... one aspect that we've noticed that we can always define a SHACL shape and achieve what you want to do, also with fundamental things
- 14:47:29 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:47:43 [JKRhb]
- ... want to publish something in that regard soon, SHACL is very good for this kind of thing in our experience
- 14:48:28 [McCool]
- sorry, ntd
- 14:48:41 [JKRhb]
- ek: In my experience, there is some tooling to help us if we want to go down the route of using SHACL
- 14:49:01 [JKRhb]
- topic: Check-out
- 14:49:03 [JKRhb]
- ek: Now we should fill out the check-out slides
- 14:49:24 [JKRhb]
- ... I think one consensus was that this is an annoying problem
- 14:49:48 [JKRhb]
- ... and is relevant for different communities (not only WoT)
- 14:49:55 [JKRhb]
- ... not sure about the next steps
- 14:50:05 [JKRhb]
- ... should we create a CG or mailing list?
- 14:50:11 [ivan]
- q+
- 14:50:15 [JKRhb]
- ... what can we do to work on this?
- 14:50:48 [JKRhb]
- ih: What I felt is to try to list, gather, categorize the problems that make these tools so difficult
- 14:51:12 [JKRhb]
- ... for example datasets, as Alexandre mentioned, or RDF 1.2 or literals
- 14:51:23 [JKRhb]
- ... we need to have a clear view of the problem space
- 14:52:00 [JKRhb]
- ... I have the impression that we should not jump into creating new tools, we should first understand the problem, step up
- 14:52:05 [JKRhb]
- s/up/back/
- 14:52:11 [JKRhb]
- ek: Agree with that
- 14:52:23 [JKRhb]
- ... what should the next step be then?
- 14:52:55 [JKRhb]
- va: I think we should begin with the UCR
- 14:53:05 [JKRhb]
- ... and then begin with SHACL vs Shex
- 14:53:19 [JKRhb]
- ... creating mapping, then see what is missing
- 14:53:46 [JKRhb]
- ... similar with GraphQL, if W3C wants to create a CG working on a mapping then this could happen
- 14:54:11 [JKRhb]
- ... not going to solve all problems, as there will always be differences
- 14:54:18 [kaz_]
- kaz_ has joined #schemata-discussion
- 14:54:30 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 14:54:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz_
- 14:54:54 [JKRhb]
- ... what do you do in case of a discrepancy? Maybe best practices are enough, not necessarily need to create a new specification
- 14:55:17 [JKRhb]
- ... the SHACL 1.2 CG is a good approach
- 14:55:42 [kaz_]
- q+
- 14:55:45 [JKRhb]
- ... @@@
- 14:55:57 [Ege]
- q?
- 14:56:13 [JKRhb]
- ... so first focus on UCR and then create focus groups to start working on the individual problems
- 14:56:35 [JKRhb]
- ek: Added creating the catalog to the slides
- 14:57:01 [JKRhb]
- kaz: I basically agree with Ivan and Vladimir
- 14:57:25 [JKRhb]
- ... we should clarify requirements, what the problem is, then see what solution would fit
- 14:57:46 [JKRhb]
- ek: I think there is a question whose requirements it is?
- 14:58:05 [JKRhb]
- kaz: A better word might be expections
- 14:58:28 [JKRhb]
- ek: There is a question of ownership, not only the WoT WG is involved
- 14:58:31 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- yes: 1. Catalog the problems/features/questions/issues (UCR), 2. focus CGs to work out specific issues: a) SHEX-SHACL mapping, b) RDF-GraphQL best practices, c) maybe YAML/YAML-LD syntax for mixing schemata approaches (JSON Schema and JSONLD Context are first candidates)
- 14:58:58 [JKRhb]
- kaz: As I mentioned, this is related to Ivan's comments, we should clarify and categorize problems
- 14:59:17 [JKRhb]
- ... and then see how they relate to requirements
- 14:59:39 [JKRhb]
- ... WoT WG should clarify its own requirements, then we can contact the others again
- 14:59:46 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- 4. Dissemination/proliferation into various communities. Because these are problems that affect widely different communities, it will not be easy to reach/evangelize to them
- 15:00:59 [JKRhb]
- ek: Question is how the individual groups will form, as I am not part of the groups mentioned in the discussion
- 15:01:06 [kaz_]
- s/As I mentioned, this is related to/As I mentioned at the beginning of this session, and similar to/
- 15:01:09 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:01:11 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz_
- 15:01:26 [JKRhb]
- ... if there is not going to be a new CG, then each group will first have to work on its own
- 15:01:55 [VladimirAlexiev_]
- 0. Catalog of tools/practices. I'd be ecstatic if a single tool (eg LinkML) can solve the problems, but I'm doubtful. So we can borrow from the "KGC" CG (who work on RDB/JSON/XML mapping tools, extending R2RML and RML): features from one tool are borrowed as requirements for another
- 15:02:01 [JKRhb]
- ... (adds an action item to the slides that each person notes the problems and should do dissemination)
- 15:02:16 [JKRhb]
- ... that concludes our session
- 15:02:34 [kaz_]
- [adjourned]
- 15:02:35 [kaz_]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:02:37 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/12-schemata-discussion-minutes.html kaz_
- 17:26:47 [tidoust]
- tidoust has joined #schemata-discussion
- 20:23:47 [tidoust]
- RRSAgent, bye
- 20:23:47 [RRSAgent]
- I see no action items