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15:03:52 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
15:04:00 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
15:04:19 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster
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15:06:56 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#March_06_and_07%2C_2024
15:07:08 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
15:09:21 <kaz> q+
15:09:37 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:10:41 <kaz> ack k
15:11:20 <kaz> scribenick: mahda-noura
15:11:26 <mahda-noura> present+ Mahda_Noura
15:11:47 <mahda-noura> ege: 3 main thing on the agenda, but we postpone the decision making
15:12:24 <kaz> i|3 main|topic: Agenda|
15:12:41 <mahda-noura> topic: TD
15:12:51 <mahda-noura> subtopic: High-level overview of work
15:12:52 <kaz> q+
15:13:08 <kaz> ack k
15:13:22 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/work-items.md
15:13:48 <kaz> s/of work/of the work/
15:14:24 <mahda-noura> ege: schedule for TD deliverable. Before the charter date we will stop working on big feature,
15:14:41 <mahda-noura> ...things like historical data or data mapping are considered probably as big features
15:15:28 <mahda-noura> ...in the main call Michael McCool mentioned we need to integrate this in the schedule
15:15:51 <kaz> q+
15:16:21 <mahda-noura> ...we also follow the same schedule as discovery, any opinions?
15:16:25 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md
15:16:41 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/spec-releases/milestones/ milestone calculator
15:17:44 <kaz> ack k
15:17:51 <kaz> scribe+
15:18:06 <kaz> kaz: for that purpose, we can use the milestone calculator tool
15:18:20 <kaz> ek: thought we already once used it, but let's check it again
15:18:25 <kaz> q+
15:18:28 <kaz> scribe-
15:18:42 <mahda-noura> ...looking at the milestone calculator, I proposed to put the same schedule as the discovery
15:18:45 <mjk_> mjk_ has joined #wot-td
15:19:15 <mahda-noura> ...we will not merge it, but gather opinions from the others
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15:20:22 <mahda-noura> kaz: maybe the schedule for TD deliverable section in the work item file can be updated with the expected schedule
15:20:38 <kaz> present+ Luca_Barbato
15:21:08 <mahda-noura> ege: as there was not so many people joining in the beginning we decided not to make big decisions in this call
15:21:45 <kaz> s/as th/(Luca joins)/
15:22:09 <kaz> s/(Luca joins)/(Note to Luca) as th/
15:22:20 <kaz> i/not so many/(Luca joins)/
15:22:29 <kaz> present+ Jan_Romann
15:22:38 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:22:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:22:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:22:51 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Versioning Discussion
15:23:07 <mahda-noura> ege: we will talk about the requirements for the versioning and not the proposal itself
15:24:10 <mahda-noura> ...the requirements we have are: supporting all users of wot resources who are early adopters and REC publication users
15:24:39 <kaz> i|we will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1969 PR 1969 - WIP: Concrete Versioning Proposal|
15:24:47 <mahda-noura> ...we want to provide concrete guidelines
15:25:00 <mahda-noura> ...any questions/feedback?
15:25:06 <kaz> i|we will|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/0185f368aa60bcd0e16302683006d38e13759e86/VERSIONING.md rendered VERSIONING.md|
15:25:09 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:25:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:25:51 <mahda-noura> ...other small points such as what we think of post REC users, the changes should be communicated to early adopters
15:26:03 <mahda-noura> ...in all cases we need to serve all resources at all the time
15:26:19 <mahda-noura> ...post REC is guranteed from W3C
15:26:30 <kaz> q+
15:27:30 <mahda-noura> kaz: consolidating the proposal like this is good, but we should clarify which part is fixed and which part is vague and need further clarification
15:28:08 <mahda-noura> ege: good point
15:29:02 <mahda-noura> ege: for the requirements these are the things we should agree on, maybe not today
15:29:14 <kaz> ack k
15:29:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:29:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:29:35 <mahda-noura> ege: from other spec users do you have any requirements for TD resources?
15:30:05 <mahda-noura> Daniel: the json schema is the one referred to, any changes to the json-schema should change the version, and that is what we are going to use for the scripting API
15:30:27 <mahda-noura> ...in the past when some changes were done to the json-schema we changed the date, but maybe there are better ways to do that
15:30:45 <mahda-noura> ege: you mean each change in the resources should bump versioning
15:30:49 <mahda-noura> daniel: ideally
15:31:43 <Ege_> q?
15:33:19 <mahda-noura> luca: I think you managed to capture all possible requirements, mainly the part that is not here but is an implementation detail, making sure we can signal that some of the resources might be , if the early adopters refer to a prelease they have something that has changed
15:33:46 <mahda-noura> ...we can decide if we want to also embed the versioning inside the single resources
15:34:40 <kaz> s/prelease/pre-release/
15:34:54 <mahda-noura> ...if we want to setup or promote that we are going to make a nice changelog with commercial tools
15:35:34 <mahda-noura> ...precise changelog in pre-release or early adopter cope with us or work with us
15:36:48 <mahda-noura> ege: we have enough early adopters
15:37:24 <mahda-noura> ege: when we talk about version it should be reflected in the URL as well as the resource
15:37:31 <Ege_> q?
15:38:10 <mahda-noura> ege: is anyone interested in participating in the versioning besides Luca, Mahda and Ege?
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15:38:45 <mahda-noura> Daniel: it should be worth if from the scripting API side if either Cristiano or me should joing
15:39:02 <mahda-noura> ...I will talk with Cristiano and let you know
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15:40:52 <mahda-noura> ege: In the main call we agreed that on 28th March we agree on the solution
15:41:04 <mahda-noura> ...any opinions on this?
15:41:08 <mahda-noura> (none)
15:41:23 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Toolchain Discussion
15:41:42 <mahda-noura> ege: toolchain requirements
15:42:14 <mahda-noura> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1975
15:42:53 <mahda-noura> ege: when we are talking about the toolchain its not only about TD but others like Bindings
15:43:19 <mahda-noura> ...consider a person who is an expert in the protocol but not an expert in our toolchain, we should reduce the learning curve for them
15:43:35 <mahda-noura> ...rely on well-known tools and should be easy to debug
15:44:04 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1975||
15:44:10 <mahda-noura> ...since it is unlikely that one tool will fix our problems we need to chain them meaningfully
15:44:23 <kaz> i|toolchain requirements|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1975 PR 1975 - Toolchain requirements|
15:44:32 <mahda-noura> ...also not to have multiple languages combined in one file
15:45:01 <Ege_> q?
15:45:03 <kaz> i|toolchain req|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/9f3b830f05285ac88790cb15bf82e691af6dccaa/toolchain/requirements.md rendered requirements.md|
15:45:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:45:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:45:15 <kaz> q+
15:45:22 <mahda-noura> ege: any comments?
15:46:14 <mahda-noura> kaz: consolidating requirements is good as usual, but the overall requirement as a whole is also good, we should think about the expected output and existing input in general, and clarify which resource is generated by each module for the next step
15:46:43 <mahda-noura> ege: depending on the tooling we chose we may need to do changes
15:47:02 <mahda-noura> ...the goal is to change a small number of files while generating as many resources as possible
15:47:21 <mahda-noura> ...the compromise is that we should at least reduce the cross checking between the files
15:47:45 <kaz> s/depending/right. depending/
15:47:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:47:51 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:48:29 <mahda-noura> ege: since this is still requirements, I will ask comments from everyone here asynchronously
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15:49:35 <mahda-noura> ...we will probably have a version of the spec that is not perfect and overtime improve
15:49:49 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Management
15:50:16 <mahda-noura> ege: In the main call we mentioned that this topic will be discussed today and will be applied to other task forces
15:50:25 <Ege_> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/ege-project-management/proposals/project-management/project-management.md
15:50:52 <kaz> i|In the main|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1977 PR 1977 - Project Management Improvements|
15:51:14 <mahda-noura> ege: has everyone seen this lifecycle?
15:51:46 <mahda-noura> ...it's all about categorization and moving things in the correct place
15:52:00 <mahda-noura> ...if there is a use case coming from the use case TF we can work on it
15:52:10 <mahda-noura> ...of course we can have our own editorial issues
15:52:45 <mahda-noura> ...we have to agree on prioritization, we talked with Michael Koster about this yesterday and noticed this aspect is not taken into account
15:53:10 <mjk_> q?
15:53:14 <kaz> q-
15:53:33 <kaz> q+
15:53:40 <mahda-noura> ...ultimately we can see the issues concrectly
15:53:47 <mahda-noura> ...I also provided some examples
15:54:08 <mahda-noura> ...also everything from the meeting I put them in archive so it can be read through
15:54:34 <mahda-noura> kaz: thank you for creating this, minor comment, the description text should also have a number
15:54:58 <mahda-noura> ege: the numbers are in the brackets, but I can add the step numbers
15:55:04 <kaz> s/this,/this./
15:55:21 <kaz> s/the des/each des/
15:55:40 <kaz> s/step numbers/step numbers at the beginning of each sentence./
15:55:41 <kaz> q-
15:55:57 <mahda-noura> mjk: prioritization is how things are selected to go from one stage to another
15:56:20 <mahda-noura> ...it is really how we select the items
15:56:24 <kaz> q+
15:56:50 <mahda-noura> mjk: dependency or no one to work on it
15:58:34 <mahda-noura> ege: I hope this should never happen, I hope we can either work on it ourselves or use the help from related groups like canonicalization...
15:59:04 <mahda-noura> kaz: we should probably clarify what we mean by prioritization as next step
15:59:34 <mahda-noura> ege: just to summarize as quick as possible, given two refined issues which one should be done first
15:59:46 <kaz> s/step/step, e.g., from the viewpoint of feature necessity or timing of release./
16:00:36 <mahda-noura> ...I have seen people doing metrics for this, doing a table with metrics like time, technicality, and so on
16:02:20 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:02:27 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/06-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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