14:37:00 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #ixml
14:37:04 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/03/05-ixml-irc
14:43:26 <cmsmcq> scribe: cmsmcq
14:43:51 <cmsmcq> Meeting:  Invisible XML CG
14:44:30 <cmsmcq> Previous meeting:  https://www.w3.org/2024/02/20-ixml-minutes
14:45:14 <cmsmcq> Agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2024Mar/0007.html
14:45:23 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, make logs public
14:53:40 <Steven> Steven has joined #ixml
14:56:02 <norm> norm has joined #ixml
15:01:01 <cmsmcq> rrsagent, please make the minutes
15:01:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/05-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
15:02:52 <cmsmcq> Topic: Review of action items
15:02:55 <john> john has joined #ixml
15:04:46 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-01-10-f continues.
15:05:01 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-11-28-a continues.
15:05:17 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-11-28-c continues.
15:06:03 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2023-11-28-e was done in https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-ixml/2024Mar/0009.html
15:06:17 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2024-02-20-a
15:06:30 <cmsmcq> has been done.
15:06:42 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2024-02-20-b continues.
15:07:07 <cmsmcq> ACTION 2024-02-20-c has been done (issues #234 - #236)
15:08:40 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Pull request #224 Mitigating ambiguity in mod357
15:09:03 <cmsmcq> Topic: Status reports
15:09:30 <cmsmcq> JL reports he has done a lot of exploration of generating ixml grammars, with special reference to auto-generation of XPath 4 grammar.
15:10:03 <cmsmcq> You can generate quite big ixml grammars, and the issue of controlling inherent ambiguity really needs to be looked at.
15:10:34 <cmsmcq> Any spec which uses extra-grammatical constraints to resolve ambiguities will exhibit this problem.
15:11:12 <cmsmcq> JL uses an ixml grammar to parse the source code for the specification of the XPath 4.0 grammar in the specs, and produces an ixml grammar.
15:11:18 <cmsmcq> NTW has nothing to report.
15:11:37 <cmsmcq> SP is working to prepare for Prague, but has nothing visible to report.
15:12:49 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Pull request #224 Mitigating ambiguity in mod357
15:13:28 <norm> https://github.com/invisibleXML/ixml/pull/224
15:23:20 <cmsmcq> We discussed.
15:28:07 <cmsmcq> Ultimately, GR's suggestion is a way to make the test catalog more manageable.
15:28:28 <cmsmcq> We can do that by making the results deterministic, as GR suggests.
15:28:40 <cmsmcq> Or by using only unambiguous test numerals.
15:29:13 <cmsmcq> We reached consensus that we should accept the pull request.
15:30:54 <cmsmcq> ACTION: Norm to confirm correctness of #224 and commit the pr
15:31:01 <norm> ACTION: Norm to test the correctness of PR #224 and merge if it is correct.
15:31:24 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Pull request #225 Fix errors in ixml-spec-grammar performance test for XPath
15:31:31 <cmsmcq> Yes, accept.
15:31:42 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Pull request #226 Additional result for performantce/xpath xsltforms-3
15:32:01 <cmsmcq> Accept this.
15:32:43 <cmsmcq> Topic:   Pull request #227 Add .gitattributes
15:33:21 <cmsmcq> NTW suggests leaving #227 unresolved until we have resolved issue #192.
15:34:10 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Issue #233 There are other things called iXML
15:34:44 <cmsmcq> ACTION: Norm to add a section to the home page pointing to other things named "ixml" or "9ml" or ...
15:35:59 <cmsmcq> Jim mentions another recipeML
15:36:10 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Issue #139 Sample grammars for IRIs and URIs
15:36:49 <cmsmcq> SP clarifies that he doesn't propose to replace the existing ixml grammars, just to add a new one.
15:36:58 <cmsmcq> NTW says that's fine, just modulate the tone in the README a bit.
15:37:59 <cmsmcq> ACTION: SP to prepare pull request to resolve issue #139 (new grammars, new README).
15:38:32 <cmsmcq> Topic:  Issue #236 When must version numbers change?
15:42:03 <norm> SP: I don't like version numbers.
15:42:48 <norm> CM: I don't like them either but consider the case of a C program from the mid-eighties that heavily used some extensions...I can't compile it.
15:43:12 <norm> ... If something claims to be a correct iXML grammar for version 3, I don't need to be surprised if it isn't processable by a 1.1 processor.
15:43:35 <norm> ... If there's no version number, then, "well, sometimes iXML grammars work and sometimes they don't." A race to the bottom.
15:47:22 <norm> Some discussion about whether or not a construct that is an error in 1.0 that is then allowed in 1.1 is considered a change of semantics or just a change of syntax.
15:49:20 <norm> SP asserts strongly that adding new syntax not valid in 1.0 is not a change.
15:52:48 <cmsmcq> MSM asserts strongly that the change from "not a grammar" to "a grammar with a particular meaning" is a change to the semantics of an input.
15:57:14 <cmsmcq> We discussed, without any visible forward progress.
15:57:47 <cmsmcq> Topic:  next meeting 19 March.
15:57:53 <cmsmcq> Beware time zone shift in US
15:59:31 <cmsmcq> Topic:  typo in 1.0 spec
15:59:46 <cmsmcq> Pi should be defined as 3.1415926 not 3.145926
16:00:29 <cmsmcq> RRSAgent, please make minutes
16:00:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/05-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq
16:02:15 <cmsmcq> present:  John Lumley, Steven Pemberton, Jim Saiya, Michael Sperberg-McQueen, Norm Tovey-Walsh, Bethan Tovey-Walsh
16:02:21 <cmsmcq> scribe: Michael Sperberg-McQueen
16:02:26 <cmsmcq> scribenick: cmsmcq
16:02:54 <cmsmcq> chair: Steven Pemberton
16:02:59 <cmsmcq> RRSAgent, please make minutes
16:03:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/03/05-ixml-minutes.html cmsmcq