14:55:18 RRSAgent has joined #i18n 14:55:22 logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/22-i18n-irc 14:55:27 Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference 14:55:31 Chair: Addison Phillips 14:55:38 agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20240222T150000/ 14:55:38 clear agenda 14:55:40 agenda+ Agenda Review 14:55:40 agenda+ Action Items 14:55:40 agenda+ Info Share 14:55:41 agenda+ RADAR Review 14:55:43 agenda+ Pending Issue Review 14:55:46 agenda+ Prepare for WHATWG Call 14:55:48 agenda+ Follow up on I18N + CSS Call 14:55:50 agenda+ IDN in Specdev 14:55:53 agenda+ String-Meta and the problem of 'paragraph direction' 14:55:55 agenda+ AOB? 14:56:08 agenda+ make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (Issue #73) 14:56:09 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 -> Action 73 make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (on r12a) due 2024-02-22 14:56:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/22-i18n-minutes.html addison 14:58:39 present+ Addison 15:00:49 present+ Richard 15:01:41 present+ Fuqiao, Atsushi 15:01:52 atsushi has joined #i18n 15:02:45 scribe: xfq 15:03:17 zakim, take up agendum 1 15:03:18 agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:03:19 rrsagent, make minutes 15:03:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/22-i18n-minutes.html xfq 15:03:26 agenda? 15:03:26 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 -> Action 73 make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (on r12a) due 2024-02-22 15:03:51 zakim, take up agendum 2 15:03:51 agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:04:06 Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #74, #73, #72, #68, #66, #64, #53, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #4 15:04:17 #73 15:04:40 close #73 15:04:42 Closed -> issue #73 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 15:04:50 #72 15:04:51 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/72 -> Action 72 update specdev to match string-meta with string/block direction as appropriate (on aphillips) due 2024-02-22 15:05:04 q+ 15:05:10 present+ Bert 15:05:56 r12a: I wonder whether we should put the information in #73 somewhere else 15:06:08 addison: why don't we discuss with the WHATWG 15:06:21 ... depending on what the result is, we can put it somewhere 15:06:36 #66 15:06:37 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/66 -> Action 66 fix base direction vs. paragraph direction in string-meta (on aphillips) due 2024-01-18 15:06:46 #64 15:06:47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/64 -> Action 64 Make list of HTML issues for February 22 call with WHATWG (on aphillips, xfq) 15:07:00 close #64 15:07:02 Closed -> issue #64 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/64 15:07:08 #43 15:07:08 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18 15:07:17 #33 15:07:18 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips) 15:07:38 #12 15:07:38 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:07:44 #8 15:07:44 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips) due 18 Jul 2023 15:07:48 #7 15:07:49 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github) due 18 Jul 2023 15:08:02 #4 15:08:02 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a) due 27 Jul 2023 15:08:20 zakim, take up agendum 3 15:08:20 agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:10:34 Bert: the MessageFormat presentation was about what I expected 15:10:38 ... it was interesting 15:10:46 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:10:46 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:10:54 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1 15:12:20 Bert: WebNN and MathML not finished 15:12:29 addison: I have ARIA 1.3 15:12:56 zakim, take up agendum 4 15:12:56 agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:13:00 ... I would appreciate any other pairs of eyes 15:13:03 zakim, take up agendum 5 15:13:03 agendum 5 -- Pending Issue Review -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:13:23 agenda? 15:13:27 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 -> CLOSED Action 73 make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (on r12a) due 2024-02-22 15:13:38 zakim, take up agendum 9 15:13:38 agendum 9 -- String-Meta and the problem of 'paragraph direction' -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:14:01 addison: last week we discussed the term 'paragraph direction' 15:14:19 ... we discussed replacing that with 'block direction' or 'string direction' as a term 15:14:37 ... our glossary definition comes from Unicode 15:14:43 ... so it's a Unicode term 15:15:04 ... should we create new competing but better terminology? 15:15:23 r12a: I think we could say this is known as paragraph direction 15:16:09 addison: I can put 'block direction' or 'string direction' in our glossary and say 'see paragraph direction' 15:16:24 ... with our explanation of what the term means above that 15:16:43 r12a: I still think 'paragraph direction' is not clear enough 15:16:46 addison: I agree 15:16:54 ... I'll working on doing it that way 15:17:05 ... any objections to that? 15:17:07 zakim, take up agendum 7 15:17:07 agendum 7 -- Follow up on I18N + CSS Call -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:17:51 https://www.w3.org/2024/02/20-i18n-minutes.html 15:18:11 zakim, take up agendum 8 15:18:11 agendum 8 -- IDN in Specdev -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:18:45 xfq: since we have some specs like rdf that refers to punycode 15:18:58 ... wonder if it is useful to add best practices related to idns 15:19:04 ... opinions? 15:19:18 ... is it useful and if so what to add and where? 15:19:23 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/119 15:19:25 https://github.com/w3c/bp-i18n-specdev/issues/119 -> Issue 119 Best practice related to IDNs (by xfq) [enhancement] 15:20:15 https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#resid_misc 15:20:24 addison: I think we have something in specdev today 15:20:30 ... see ^ 15:20:38 ... maybe that needs a little attention 15:21:54 action: xfq: work on developing new specdev material about IDNs/domain names/etc. 15:22:01 Created -> action #75 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/75 15:23:17 zakim, take up agendum 6 15:23:17 agendum 6 -- Prepare for WHATWG Call -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:23:49 addison: I'll incorporate the discussion of invisible characters 15:24:05 * Harmonization/cooperation between Infra and I18N-Glossary * Input type=email (#4562 + PR #5799) * Additional named entities (#5121) 15:24:06 Issue 4562 not found 15:24:06 Issue 5121 not found 15:24:06 Issue 5799 not found 15:24:25 ... I propose that we discuss 3 topics 15:24:35 ... see ^ 15:24:57 q+ 15:25:07 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3AAgenda%2BI18N%2BWHATWG 15:25:14 ... and if we have time, we can go on to time-related issues and several input type=date/time issues 15:25:21 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Awhatwg 15:26:01 r12a: I think we need to change the order of these things 15:26:26 ... because the harmonization issue is not too long 15:26:46 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 15:26:47 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 -> CLOSED Action 73 make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (on r12a) due 2024-02-22 15:26:47 ... Input type=email is essentially a very long discussion 15:27:02 ... and the additional named entities will probably be quite short 15:27:30 ... it took a little while to figure out how to get a list of invisible characters 15:27:52 ... I trimmed out some obvious things like PUA characters 15:28:17 ... and some characters you don't really want to create entities for them 15:28:29 ... and I created a priority items list 15:28:56 ... these are the things I'd really like to have if nothing else 15:29:56 Bert: one thing I often use is the variation selector for the colour of emojis 15:31:55 ... VS16 (U+FE0F) for emoji with color or VS15 (U+FE0E) for monochrome 15:34:21 addison: what else do we want to say about this list? 15:38:02 addison: I suspect any of these conversations could be short 15:38:20 ... I'm hopeful John can join us 15:38:50 ... if you can't type some emails this makes this element less useful 15:39:05 +1 15:39:17 addison: the other thing is infra vs glossary 15:39:57 ... I made an assertion in our issue that there are places where people want to use terminology and don't want to reference Infra 15:40:39 ... like RDF 15:40:44 ... whereas the folks we're talking to say everyone should just use Infra 15:41:42 ... we have a lot of terminology that people needed to use that doesn't belong to Infra 15:41:51 r12a: there's also a qualitative difference 15:42:02 ... we sometimes have additional examples or explanations 15:42:23 addison: we do have definitions in common 15:42:38 ... we should have some process of ensuring that we don't conflict each other 15:44:00 ... and we want to avoid situations where we export a term that is in Infra 15:44:10 agenda? 15:44:13 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/73 -> CLOSED Action 73 make a list of invisible characters to support html 5121 discussion (on r12a) due 2024-02-22 15:44:55 zakim, take up agendum 10 15:44:55 agendum 10 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot] 15:45:37 rrsagent, make minutes 15:45:38 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/22-i18n-minutes.html xfq 16:12:11 zakim, who is here? 16:12:11 Present: Addison, Richard, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Bert 16:12:13 On IRC I see atsushi, RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, r12a, gb, astearns, xfq, eemeli, mbinzo, imlostlmao, Github, SintayewGashaw, BoKilgore, MojGraph, James1, clafase, matrix638, 16:12:13 ... joraboi445, gonzu_15, florian, fantasai, csarven, hadleybeeman, Mek, koji, alastairc, Rachael, cwilso, Bert, hsivonen, agendabot 16:12:14 zakim, bye 16:12:16 Zakim has left #i18n 16:12:16 leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Richard, Fuqiao, Atsushi, Bert