IRC log of wot-uc on 2024-02-21

Timestamps are in UTC.

11:58:41 [RRSAgent]
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11:58:46 [RRSAgent]
logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-wot-uc-irc
11:58:46 [kaz]
meeting: WoT Use Cases
11:59:07 [kaz]
chair: Mizushima
11:59:20 [kaz]
present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Michael_Koster
12:02:59 [luca_barbato]
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12:03:28 [kaz]
present+ Luca_Barbato
12:03:35 [mjk_]
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12:03:48 [kaz]
present+ Ege_Korkan
12:04:14 [kaz]
scribenick: kaz
12:04:34 [kaz]
agenda: https://github.com/w3c/wot-usecases/blob/main/TODO/20240221.md
12:04:41 [kaz]
topic: Updated plan
12:04:56 [Ege]
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12:04:56 [kaz]
mizu: 2 weeks ago, proposed a plan
12:04:59 [mahda-noura]
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12:05:14 [kaz]
... but would like to update it based on the discussion on Feb 7
12:05:28 [kaz]
[[
12:05:29 [kaz]
Feb-21 (today): Clarify Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements using some specific example(s)
12:05:29 [kaz]
As a result, we should be able to get insights on possible templates for the following:
12:05:29 [kaz]
Use Cases
12:05:29 [kaz]
Functional Requirements
12:05:29 [kaz]
Technical Requirements
12:05:30 [McCool]
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12:05:31 [kaz]
Feb-28: Fix basic templates for Use Cases, Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements
12:05:33 [kaz]
Mar-6: start concrete work on Ues Cases, Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements
12:05:35 [kaz]
]]
12:05:45 [mahda-noura]
present+ Mahda_Noura
12:05:55 [kaz]
present+ Michael_McCool
12:06:05 [kaz]
mizu: is that ok?
12:06:21 [kaz]
q+
12:06:30 [kaz]
ack k
12:06:40 [kaz]
kaz: I'm OK if that's feasible :)
12:06:50 [kaz]
(no objections; updated plan approved)
12:07:06 [kaz]
topic: Minutes review and GitHub Issue creation
12:07:18 [kaz]
-> https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-wot-uc-minutes.html Feb-7
12:07:23 [kaz]
mizu: (goes through the minutes)
12:07:55 [kaz]
... discussion on Issue 257
12:08:16 [kaz]
... continue the discussion about "Functional vs Technical Requirements"
12:08:29 [kaz]
... also additional 6 Issues derived from Issue 257
12:09:01 [kaz]
q+
12:09:16 [kaz]
ack k
12:09:45 [kaz]
... then discussed how to deal with Use Cases and Requirements
12:09:57 [kaz]
... various opinions from the participants
12:10:06 [kaz]
... summary is:
12:10:15 [kaz]
... Need for sepration between Use Cases and Requirements so that we can describe the many to many mapping between Use Cases and Requirements
12:10:28 [kaz]
... Need to clarify possible 2 levels of Requirements needed
12:10:35 [kaz]
... Need to clarify them based on concrete example descriptions
12:10:38 [kaz]
q?
12:10:47 [kaz]
... are the minutes OK?
12:10:52 [kaz]
(no objections)
12:11:00 [kaz]
minutes approved
12:11:19 [kaz]
mizu: then the above summary of the discussion approved?
12:11:23 [kaz]
q?
12:13:16 [kaz]
q+
12:13:24 [McCool]
q+
12:13:24 [kaz]
ack k
12:13:34 [kaz]
(no objections)
12:14:06 [kaz]
mizu: so the discussion points have been approved
12:14:52 [kaz]
topic: Clarification of Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements
12:15:26 [kaz]
mizu: Given the discussion on Feb-7, I think this topic, Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements, is very important
12:15:35 [kaz]
... so would like to continue the discussion
12:15:48 [kaz]
... would start with some basic definition
12:15:54 [kaz]
[[
12:16:02 [Ege]
q+
12:16:06 [kaz]
"Functional Requirements" are extracted from the Use Case descriptions, and to be included in the "WoT Use Cases and Requirements Note".
12:16:06 [kaz]
That implies that the Use Case descriptions need enough information for the Use Cases TF to extract "Functional Requirements".
12:16:07 [kaz]
]]
12:16:13 [mjk_]
q?
12:16:16 [kaz]
On the other hand, "Technical Requirements" are generated based on the "Functional Requirements", and could be described within each specifaction by each specification TF, e.g, WoT Thing Description by the TD TF.
12:16:16 [kaz]
That implies that the "Functional Requirements" need enough information for the specification TF to generate "Technical Requirements".
12:16:17 [kaz]
]]
12:16:27 [Ege]
+1 on that it is not a definition
12:16:44 [kaz]
mm: this is not a definition itself, but how the document should do
12:16:48 [kaz]
q+
12:17:14 [kaz]
... however, rather than trying to make the definition clear, we should just capture the requirements
12:17:33 [kaz]
... and see which ones are "Functional" and which ones are "Technical"
12:18:26 [kaz]
... simply requirements first, then categories, for example
12:18:34 [kaz]
ack mc
12:19:20 [kaz]
ek: agree with McCool
12:19:27 [kaz]
... this is not "definition" itself
12:19:40 [kaz]
... also agree we don't really need definition
12:19:55 [McCool]
q+
12:20:03 [kaz]
... we should have examples rather than strict definition here
12:20:23 [mahda-noura]
q+
12:20:24 [kaz]
... also we can have a look at my proposed Issue, etc.
12:20:27 [kaz]
ack ege
12:21:25 [kaz]
kaz: agree
12:21:57 [kaz]
... and I think what Mizushima-san wanted to is rathr "what we need to do" or "roles" here
12:22:07 [kaz]
... rather than exact definition
12:22:14 [kaz]
mm: agree
12:22:23 [mahda-noura]
q-
12:22:28 [kaz]
ack k
12:22:36 [kaz]
ack m
12:22:57 [kaz]
kaz: so let's simply change the title from "Basic definition" to "What we need to do" hre
12:23:01 [kaz]
s/hre/here/
12:23:20 [kaz]
present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
12:23:31 [kaz]
zakim, who is on the call?
12:23:31 [Zakim]
Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, Michael_Koster, Luca_Barbato, Ege_Korkan, Mahda_Noura, Michael_McCool, Kunihiko_Toumura
12:23:31 [Ege]
s/... also we can have a look at my proposed Issue, etc./I would prefer to have PRs created before the call so that I can have a calm time reading them.
12:23:54 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
12:23:59 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
12:24:01 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
12:24:08 [kaz]
q+
12:25:05 [kaz]
ack k
12:25:21 [kaz]
(basic roles on what to do approved)
12:25:35 [kaz]
subtopic: Concrete example
12:25:48 [kaz]
mizu: would like to start with an example of a smart home
12:26:23 [kaz]
... the results from this discussion should be useful for template discussion as well
12:26:43 [kaz]
s/subtopic:/topic:/
12:26:49 [kaz]
subtopic: Use Cases
12:27:03 [kaz]
-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-usecases/#smart-home UCR document
12:27:30 [kaz]
mizu: Within a smart home, the user would like to control the air conditioner and the air purifier at once as if the air conditioner had built-in air purifier capability though they're actually two separate physical devices.
12:27:42 [kaz]
... how should we describe that kind of use case?
12:28:05 [kaz]
... the current use case template has:
12:28:12 [Ege]
q+
12:28:16 [kaz]
[[
12:28:18 [kaz]
Submitter
12:28:20 [kaz]
Target Users
12:28:22 [kaz]
Motivation
12:28:24 [kaz]
Expected Devices
12:28:26 [kaz]
Expected Data
12:28:28 [kaz]
Dependencies
12:28:30 [kaz]
Description
12:28:32 [kaz]
Security Considerations
12:28:34 [kaz]
Privacy Considerations
12:28:36 [kaz]
Accessibility Considerations
12:28:38 [kaz]
Internationalization Considerations
12:28:42 [kaz]
Gaps
12:28:44 [kaz]
Existing Standards
12:28:46 [kaz]
]]
12:28:50 [kaz]
mizu: are those enough to extract "Technical Requirements" later?
12:28:52 [kaz]
q+
12:29:53 [kaz]
... also how should we deal with considerations on security, privacy, accessibility and internationalization?
12:30:11 [ktoumura]
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12:31:42 [kaz]
subtopic: Functional Requirements
12:31:55 [kaz]
mizu: Grouping of multiple physical devices, e.g., an air conditioner and an air purifier, as a virtual device, e.g., an air conditioner including air purifier capability
12:32:18 [kaz]
subtopic: Technical Requirements
12:32:29 [kaz]
mizu: WoT Thing Description should handle the air conditioner and the air purifier as if they were a one single device.
12:32:39 [kaz]
... For that purpose, a TD can describe a virtual device, an air conditioner with air purifier capability, and then export it to the Consumer.
12:32:53 [kaz]
... The Consumer can handle the exported virtual air conditioner via that TD.
12:33:02 [kaz]
... The WoT Discovery also needs to let a Consumer discover a virtual device based on that TD.
12:33:28 [kaz]
subtopic: Discussion
12:33:38 [kaz]
mizu: Use Case is the first work
12:33:43 [McCool]
q+
12:33:56 [kaz]
... so would start with Use Case here
12:34:13 [kaz]
... then Functional Requirements
12:34:21 [kaz]
... then Technical Requirements
12:34:40 [kaz]
ek: thanks for providing this concrete example
12:35:27 [kaz]
... the question here is if the information within the Use Case template enough for requirements extraction
12:35:48 [kaz]
... we generally would like to have knowledge about that here
12:35:55 [kaz]
... then
12:36:16 [kaz]
... Functional Requirements should be provided by the Use Case submitters themselves
12:36:23 [kaz]
... also
12:36:38 [kaz]
... if there is no Gap with the existing standards, we can simply go ahead
12:38:23 [kaz]
kaz: tx from me too
12:38:34 [kaz]
... the example seems OK to me
12:39:01 [kaz]
... only one comment is extracting not only "Technical Requirements" from Use Cases
12:39:13 [kaz]
... but also "Functional Requirements"
12:39:24 [kaz]
... so both Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements
12:39:44 [kaz]
... then as Ege also was wondering, who/how to extract the requirements?
12:40:03 [kaz]
... collaboration with the use case submitters for functional requirements
12:40:20 [kaz]
... collaboration with the spec TFs for technical requirements
12:40:27 [kaz]
... but those points are for the next step
12:40:33 [kaz]
ack k
12:40:34 [kaz]
q?
12:40:35 [kaz]
ack e
12:41:03 [kaz]
mm: all the above related to both the Functional Requirements and Technical Requirements
12:41:24 [kaz]
... this use case can be worked with ECHONET who are still active
12:41:56 [kaz]
... regarding the gaps, requirements from ECHONET APIs with WoT APIs
12:42:25 [kaz]
... actual analysis to be done to clarify the Technical Requirements
12:42:26 [kaz]
q+
12:42:31 [Ege]
qq+
12:42:38 [kaz]
ack mc
12:42:51 [kaz]
... so need to add further details
12:43:18 [kaz]
... we should have some criteria to see if the requirements are satisfied
12:43:38 [kaz]
ek: in this case, we can see the gaps with their standards
12:43:56 [kaz]
ack e
12:43:56 [Zakim]
Ege, you wanted to react to Ege
12:44:26 [kaz]
s/Ege, you wanted to react to Ege//
12:45:17 [kaz]
mm: requirements need to be confirmable
12:45:19 [kaz]
q?
12:46:38 [McCool]
q+
12:46:50 [McCool]
ack m
12:47:11 [McCool]
q+
12:47:25 [McCool]
ack m
12:47:28 [kaz]
ack k
12:47:55 [kaz]
kaz: let me summarize the discussion so far
12:48:05 [kaz]
... we're OK with Mizushimas-san's proposed direction
12:48:09 [Ege]
q+
12:48:33 [kaz]
... displayed example on grouping of devices is fine
12:49:13 [kaz]
... but all the three items, Use Case, Functional Requirement, Technical Requirement still need to be improved/clarified
12:49:59 [kaz]
mm: so far the description is about what, and need to describe how as well
12:50:09 [kaz]
ack e
12:50:14 [kaz]
ek: agree
12:50:25 [kaz]
... these are basically about functional
12:50:37 [kaz]
... I'm OK with the direction
12:50:49 [kaz]
... starting with abstract and think about details next
12:51:13 [kaz]
... would be better to describe as detail as possible when we generate Use Cases
12:51:22 [kaz]
q+
12:53:04 [McCool]
q+
12:54:39 [kaz]
... Technical Requirements should be handled by the UC TF
12:54:54 [kaz]
kaz: can be done collaboratively with the spec TF guys
12:55:03 [kaz]
... but we need some more discussion
12:55:29 [kaz]
mm: we should start with capturing what is needed first
12:56:16 [kaz]
... would be nice to write done concrete requirements for discovery and security
12:56:17 [kaz]
q+
12:56:20 [kaz]
ack m
12:56:22 [Ege]
q+
12:57:23 [kaz]
kaz: yeah, we can continue the discussion based on Mizushima-san's example
12:57:28 [kaz]
q+
12:57:30 [kaz]
ack k
12:57:31 [kaz]
q+
12:58:45 [kaz]
ack e
12:59:05 [kaz]
ek: maybe we can have a Hackathon to clarify the procedure
12:59:48 [McCool]
ntd
13:00:36 [kaz]
kaz: sounds good :)
13:00:40 [kaz]
s/ntd//
13:00:43 [kaz]
[adjourned]
13:00:48 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:00:49 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
13:02:16 [kaz]
rrsagent, make log public
13:02:20 [kaz]
rrsagent, draft minutes
13:02:21 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-wot-uc-minutes.html kaz
13:06:19 [Ege]
brb