13:52:24 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:52:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-apa-irc
13:52:29 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:52:30 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:52:42 <janina> Chair:  Janina, Matthew
13:52:42 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:52:42 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:52:45 <janina> agenda+ HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:52:48 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:52:50 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:52:53 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:52:55 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:52:58 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:53:00 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:53:03 <janina> agenda+ be done
13:53:15 <janina>  Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:53:21 <janina> Date: 21 Feb 2024
14:54:27 <m-alkalbani> m-alkalbani has joined #apa
14:58:21 <janina> present+
14:58:29 <janina> zakim, who's here?
14:58:29 <Zakim> Present: janina
14:58:31 <Zakim> On IRC I see m-alkalbani, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, kirkwood, Roy_, slightlyoff, gb, imlostlmao, AnthonySpencer, M2cshkpcgrp, SintayewGashaw, matrix638, joraboi445, gonzu_15,
14:58:31 <Zakim> ... sonicscrewdriver, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
14:59:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #APA
15:00:30 <janina> regrets: Irfan, Rita
15:01:06 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
15:01:15 <matatk> agenda?
15:01:50 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
15:02:05 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:02:25 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:02:28 <m-alkalbani> present+
15:02:31 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
15:02:35 <Fredrik> present+
15:02:41 <Fredrik> scribe: Fredrik
15:03:05 <matatk> present+
15:03:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:03:12 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:03:12 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:03:48 <Fredrik> matatk: Quantum chairing arrangement.
15:06:42 <Fredrik> matatk: Muad, an XR wiz at Samsung, is joining the call to get marinated in W3C stuff.
15:09:25 <matatk> gb, off
15:09:25 <gb> matatk, issues and names were already off.
15:11:19 <Fredrik> Introductions galore for Muad#s benefit.
15:15:18 <Fredrik> matatk: Matthew is on holiday next week.
15:15:20 <matatk> q?
15:15:31 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:15:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
15:15:32 <Zakim> I see 9 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:15:32 <Zakim> 2. New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 [from janina]
15:15:33 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:15:33 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
15:15:59 <matatk> subtopic: Second Screen Working Group Charter
15:16:08 <matatk> - charter: https://w3c.github.io/secondscreen-charter/
15:16:11 <Fredrik> matatk: Roy is on holiday this week, but Matthew is doing new charters review.
15:16:16 <matatk> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/444
15:16:20 <Fredrik> matatk: It's the Second Screen WG charter!
15:17:13 <Fredrik> janina: We have a long time investment and interest in Second Screen. We want as smooth an interaction as possible with them moving forward.
15:17:21 <Fredrik> janina: I'm up for looking at the charter.
15:17:34 <Fredrik> matatk: I'll give you an action.
15:18:02 <Fredrik> matatk: ]
15:18:20 <Fredrik> matatk: (Reading from the charter.)
15:19:03 <Fredrik> janina: Already have commenbts on the scope of the charter.
15:21:43 <Fredrik> janina: Here#s a pointer to the use cases in the MAUR.
15:22:21 <matatk> action janina: Review Second Screen WG charter
15:22:28 <janina> https://www.w3.org/TR/media-accessibility-reqs/#requirements-on-secondary-screens-and-other-devices
15:22:56 <matatk> gb, status
15:22:57 <gb> matatk, the delay is 15, issues are off, names are off, full issues are printed 10 at a time; and the repository is https://github.com/w3c/apa
15:23:56 <matatk> q?
15:24:02 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:24:02 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:24:03 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:24:03 <Zakim> 3. HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
15:24:13 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:24:13 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- HR A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
15:24:24 <matatk> subtopic: Requirements for light and dark colors returned by `contrast-color(<color>)`
15:24:33 <matatk> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9970
15:27:21 <janina> regrets+ Paul
15:33:27 <matatk> agenda?
15:33:55 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:33:55 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:33:56 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:33:56 <Zakim> 4. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]
15:34:03 <Fredrik> zakim, open next item
15:34:03 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:34:38 <matatk> subtopic: DeviceOrientation Event Specification
15:34:46 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/71
15:34:51 <matatk> Due: 2024-02-29
15:35:31 <Fredrik> matatk: The devices and sensors workign group asked us to turn our draft a11y considerations section into a PR. That is what we will do.
15:35:58 <Fredrik> matatk: If I just make a pull request, we could do a CFC which we can approve next week and then do the pull request. Or I could send the proposed text to the list.
15:36:14 <Fredrik> matatk: Anyway, it would be good if we could get that done until next week.
15:36:25 <Fredrik> janina: I thought we got to a resolutions amongst ourselves.
15:37:05 <Fredrik> matatk: We posted the issue to the group (Devices and Sensors) - they asked for a PR. If we should do a CFC on the wording of the PR text we should do that before DSWG does their thing.
15:38:50 <matatk> subtopic: Accessible Rich Internet Applications 1.3
15:39:00 <matatk> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/72
15:39:08 <matatk> Due: 2024-02-23
15:39:41 <matatk> Tracking issue: https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/341
15:41:07 <Fredrik> matatk: I have a couple of things I wanted to mention. There is a lot of really good stuff in here that is going to make a big positive difference. It's a good release.
15:41:33 <janina> q+ to ask about braille support
15:42:19 <Fredrik> matatk: The shape of thigns to come is great.
15:42:59 <Fredrik> matatk: There is one small bug in that there is a section in the document, the spec, about translatqable attributes and it talks about the value of the attribute is going to the user. aria-label and aria-description. Aria-description isn't included in the list, though.
15:44:15 <Fredrik> matatk: The second thign that I wanteed to bring up, I've been meaning to CC Fredrikand Mike on this: The question is, should we suggest slightly stronger wording than exists right now in the spec to discourage the use of ARIA-label, ARIA-description and ARIA-roledescription? The reason I ask this is that there is a good text about not using Brailel labelling unless you know exactly what you are doing.
15:44:25 <Fredrik> matatk: A little more discouragement from using it might be appropriate.
15:44:49 <mike_beganyi> q+
15:44:58 <Fredrik> matatk: I'm asking for yoru thoughts on the change to existing wording. IN the thread that we've got, the tracking issue, I will put a link to the bits that I'm talking about. There is already some text about it already.
15:45:15 <Fredrik> matatk: Anybody is welcome to join in on that tracking issue with comments.
15:45:28 <matatk> q?
15:45:31 <matatk> ack janina
15:45:31 <Zakim> janina, you wanted to ask about braille support
15:46:29 <matatk> q+
15:46:33 <matatk> ack mike_beganyi
15:46:37 <Fredrik> janina: Let me just say that I would just love a solution like CSS Color Contrast. If we'#re relying on content developers to do the right thing with sending a different string to abraille display, we are setting us all up for failure.
15:47:27 <Fredrik> mike_beganyi: My immediate thoruhgt is the best use of ARIA is the not use of it all. Having a bit stronger wording would probably be a good idea.
15:48:21 <Fredrik> matatk: One thign we have to bear in mind when doing this is that there are very legitimate use cases for ARIA-label and also ARIA-description. The concern is that people are going to overuse it. The spec still has a right to have that stuff in it. The materials that EO produces and also the ARIA-APG team all have that warning you gave.
15:48:45 <Fredrik> matatk: They very strongly discourage content authors from providing braille strings. They don't want authors to do it unless they really know what they are up to.
15:49:07 <Fredrik> matatk: They may be relying on AT to do it. In some cases the content author may know better, but handle with care.
15:51:57 <Fredrik> matatk: Maybe a note to say "Please consider making the text available in the DOM if it isn't because that may help more people".
15:52:54 <matatk> agenda?
15:52:59 <Fredrik> zakim, close this item
15:52:59 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Fredrik
15:53:33 <mike_beganyi> q+
15:53:55 <Fredrik> zakim, end meeting
15:53:55 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, mike_beganyi, m-alkalbani, Fredrik, matatk, Lionel_Wolberger
15:53:57 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:53:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:54:08 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, Fredrik; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:54:08 <matatk> zakim, take up item 10
15:54:08 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:54:08 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
15:57:35 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:57:42 <janina> rrsagent, bye
15:57:42 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-apa-actions.rdf :
15:57:42 <RRSAgent> ACTION: janina to Review Second Screen WG charter [1]
15:57:42 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/02/21-apa-irc#T15-22-21