IRC log of wot-td on 2024-02-15

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:00:16 [RRSAgent]

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14:00:20 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-irc

14:00:51 [kaz]

meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2

14:01:00 [dape]

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14:01:21 [Ege]

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14:01:21 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner Michael_Koster

14:02:37 [Mizushima]

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14:03:08 [luca_barbato]

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14:03:19 [ktoumura]

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14:04:05 [dape]

scribe: dape

14:05:20 [dape]

TOPIC: Minutes

14:05:28 [dape]

-> https://www.w3.org/2024/02/08-wot-td-minutes.html

14:05:33 [dape]

EK: some typos

14:05:38 [dape]

Kaz: fixed by now

14:07:19 [kaz]

present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima

14:07:28 [dape]

TOPIC: Organizational

14:07:39 [dape]

EK: may not be available on 28 and 29 of Feb

14:07:46 [kaz]

s/html/html Feb-8/

14:07:50 [dape]

... M. Koster could chair

14:07:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

14:07:59 [dape]

MK: I am available those days

14:08:01 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:08:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:08:21 [dape]

s/28 and 29 of Feb/28 and 29 of Feb, definitely not available March 20-21

14:08:31 [dape]

TOPIC: Bindings

14:08:58 [dape]

EK: Discussed yesterday Ben's proposal

14:09:15 [luca_barbato]

q+

14:09:16 [dape]

... we missed to discuss "Where should the discussion continue"

14:09:20 [kaz]

q+

14:09:26 [dape]

... maybe we can bring up the topic in main call

14:09:51 [mjk]

mjk has joined #wot-td

14:09:53 [dape]

LB: we should discuss it in main call

14:10:04 [dape]

... if we have consensus

14:10:19 [kaz]

present+ Kazeem_Oladipupo

14:10:37 [dape]

... we can move parts from profile that are not describable in TD at the moment

14:10:57 [dape]

... we should agree whether we want to close Profile 1.0 first

14:11:07 [dape]

... continue after with Profile 2.0 work

14:11:24 [dape]

... first step, come up with plan that everyone in main call can agree

14:11:36 [dape]

... start work in TD next

14:11:55 [dape]

EK: Agree

14:12:01 [dape]

... agreement needs to come first

14:12:10 [dape]

... Ben said Profile 1.0 could be a note

14:12:18 [dape]

... should be part of main call discussion

14:12:19 [dape]

q?

14:12:22 [dape]

ack luca_barbato

14:12:51 [dape]

Kaz: Agree with Luca that we need further discussion in main call

14:12:57 [dape]

... how to handle profile in general

14:13:12 [dape]

.. the whole WG needs to clarify what the "new" profile should describe

14:13:16 [dape]

EK: Agree also

14:13:26 [dape]

... this task force seems to have already consensus

14:13:38 [kaz]

q?

14:13:39 [dape]

... lets discuss it further in main call

14:13:40 [kaz]

ack k

14:13:40 [dape]

ack kaz

14:13:47 [kaz]

s/lets/let's/

14:14:21 [dape]

TOPIC: TD

14:14:24 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#February_14_and_February_15%2C_2024

14:14:33 [dape]

SUBTOPIC: TM Namespace

14:14:44 [dape]

EK: issue about TD namespace not available etc

14:14:51 [dape]

... see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1807

14:14:59 [Ege]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20

14:15:03 [dape]

... addressed by: https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20

14:15:26 [dape]

... we missed to add it to redirection table

14:15:52 [dape]

... PR20 fixes it in documention

14:15:59 [kaz]

i|issue about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1807 Issue 1807 - TM namespace not active yet

14:16:06 [dape]

s/documention/documentation

14:16:09 [kaz]

q+

14:16:22 [dape]

EK: Kaz needs to fix it in redirections settings

14:16:42 [dape]

Kaz: Wondering when and how to merge PR?

14:16:56 [dape]

EK: Suggest to merge it now.. and redirection changes after the call

14:17:09 [dape]

... or leave PR open til settings are fixed

14:17:21 [kaz]

i|issue about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20 wot-resources PR 20 - TD 1.1 Resource Finalization|

14:17:28 [dape]

Kaz: maybe we can look at details of PRs a bit more

14:17:55 [dape]

EK: PR adds option to get text/html with content negotation also

14:18:02 [kaz]

q+

14:18:46 [dape]

EK: .htaccess file needs to be updated to provide html if someone asks for HTML

14:19:12 [dape]

Kaz: The requirement needs to be clear first

14:19:22 [dape]

... and requirement should be recorded

14:19:49 [kaz]

s/maybe we can/If we'd like to merge the PR 20 not, we should/

14:19:57 [dape]

EK: requirement: people who ask for TM.html should be able to get it via content negotation #

14:20:06 [dape]

s/negotation #/negotation

14:20:23 [dape]

EK: Will merge it now

14:20:37 [dape]

... gonna close issue once redirection settings are done

14:20:53 [kaz]

s/negotiation/negotiation with specifying TM (without .html) and the html media type./

14:20:55 [dape]

... issue 1807

14:21:09 [dape]

TOPIC: Binding Templates

14:21:20 [kaz]

s|html media|text/html media|

14:21:25 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:21:26 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:21:32 [dape]

SUBTOPIC: Profinet Binding

14:21:55 [dape]

EK: Kazeem created draft PR

14:22:15 [dape]

KO: Within Siemens we are working on PROFINET

14:22:17 [kaz]

i|Binding|(wot-resources PR 20 merged; wot-thing-description Issue 1807 to be closed later)|

14:22:22 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:22:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:22:41 [dape]

... that's why I started to work on binding template for it

14:22:52 [dape]

q?

14:23:19 [dape]

EK: Kazeem did not use pipeline yet

14:23:23 [kaz]

i|Kazeem c|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/351 PR 351 - creating a PROFINET binding template file|

14:23:26 [kaz]

ack k

14:23:26 [dape]

... he will work on it

14:23:28 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:23:29 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:23:35 [dape]

... we do have already JSON Schema

14:23:48 [kaz]

chair: Ege, Koster

14:23:49 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:23:50 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:24:26 [kaz]

s/content negotation/content negotiation/

14:24:26 [Ege]

q?

14:24:26 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:24:27 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:24:40 [kaz]

q+

14:24:40 [dape]

EK: new area of WoT

14:24:51 [dape]

... thanks Kazeem

14:25:05 [dape]

Kaz: Can you give more description of PROFINET?

14:25:19 [kaz]

s/of/on/

14:25:19 [dape]

KO: Sure

14:26:09 [dape]

... PROFINET is mainly an ethernet protocol in industrial (real time)

14:26:35 [dape]

... controller has its own channel

14:26:41 [dape]

... supervisor has its own channel also

14:26:56 [dape]

... main problem we try to fix

14:26:58 [kaz]

s|via content negotiation|via content negotiation with specifying TM (without .html) and the text/html media type.

14:27:01 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:27:02 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:27:10 [kaz]

q+

14:27:51 [dape]

Kaz: more interested in the areas where it is used

14:27:58 [dape]

... user level information

14:28:14 [dape]

KO: PROFINET is an industrial protocol

14:28:30 [dape]

... lower/faster than the OPCUA

14:28:49 [kaz]

s/closed later/closed later - to be moved right after "issue 1807"/

14:28:50 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:52 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:28:59 [kaz]

ack k

14:28:59 [dape]

... commonly used at shopfloor to control and monitor field devices

14:29:12 [kaz]

q+

14:29:23 [dape]

EK: I think this is good for an introduction

14:29:35 [dape]

s/good for/good enough for

14:30:27 [dape]

Kaz: Maybe we can clarify why we need it in addition to OPCUA / BACnet

14:30:39 [dape]

... does it become more popular?

14:30:47 [dape]

EK: It is already very popular

14:31:14 [dape]

... OPCUA will never replace it because of real time constraints

14:31:39 [dape]

Kaz: Adding that one-line to PR might be useful as well

14:32:00 [dape]

KO: Okay, will do

14:32:18 [dape]

EK: highlighting relevance is good

14:33:11 [kaz]

s/more interested in the areas where it is used/sorry but we should clarify why we want and need to add this in addition to the current target protocols./

14:33:11 [dape]

... please comment in PR if there are questions/comments

14:33:21 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:33:23 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:33:29 [dape]

TOPIC: Use Case Discussion

14:33:33 [dape]

EK: Looked at labelling work

14:33:47 [dape]

... finished it

14:34:35 [dape]

... scripting API issues can be opened now

14:34:38 [kaz]

q+

14:34:42 [dape]

CA: okay

14:34:48 [dape]

... thanks!

14:35:11 [dape]

EK: from TD side we should make clear that an other task force requires it

14:35:27 [dape]

CA: wonder what we do if we find already existing issues

14:35:41 [dape]

EK: "needed by other TF" label can be used

14:36:09 [dape]

Kaz: proposal should be discussed in use case call

14:36:22 [dape]

EK: for TD it is already decided

14:36:44 [dape]

Kaz: should be careful how to deal with use-case proposal

14:36:55 [dape]

EK: use-cases are not yet submitted

14:37:20 [dape]

... we just wanted to filter out other stuff first

14:37:57 [dape]

Kaz: file itself was created in use-case repo

14:38:15 [dape]

... procedure should be clear

14:38:22 [dape]

EK: already part of proposal

14:38:34 [dape]

Kaz: document as a whole is draft proposal

14:38:44 [dape]

EK: correct

14:38:55 [dape]

... should be careful

14:39:57 [Ege]

q?

14:40:21 [dape]

Kaz: Yes, we should be careful. Also as part of use-case agenda etc

14:40:33 [dape]

... be clear what has been done and what should be done in the future

14:40:49 [dape]

EK: Yes, clear

14:41:33 [dape]

... with the label not having "use-case" label we can look at them

14:41:38 [dape]

... there are still many

14:41:54 [dape]

... some other labels are applied like "semantics" etc

14:42:06 [dape]

... we can work to further categorize them

14:42:09 [dape]

MK: Agree

14:42:28 [dape]

... how many are use-case ?

14:42:36 [dape]

EK: 112 are not use-case

14:42:47 [dape]

.. out of 210 ... more than half are not use-case

14:42:58 [dape]

... ~ 85 are use-case relevant

14:43:11 [kaz]

i|Yes, clear|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2024Feb/0000.html Ege's message on Issue Filtering (Member-only)|

14:43:17 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:43:18 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz

14:43:24 [dape]

... in binding templates 46 are not use-case .. 28 were use-case relevant

14:43:56 [kaz]

q+

14:44:26 [dape]

Kaz: when we say "not use-case" ... do you mean editorial ?

14:44:41 [dape]

EK: yes, "editorial", "tooling", "refactoring" ...

14:44:58 [dape]

... "validation" / "semantics"

14:45:04 [dape]

... some are still not clear

14:46:04 [dape]

Kaz: In any case we need clarify the categories for spec transition

14:46:25 [kaz]

s/need clarify/need to clarify/

14:46:38 [kaz]

s/transition/transition, so I asked for clarification./

14:47:07 [dape]

SUBTOPIC: Expectations of stakeholders from the use case TF and the use case process

14:47:36 [dape]

EK: would like to get the last feedback from people about their expectations

14:48:03 [dape]

... expectations about "what you would like to see from use-cases work"

14:48:12 [dape]

... or developers

14:48:26 [mjk]

q?

14:48:32 [dape]

... there are currently comments from Ege and Luca

14:48:43 [cris_]

cris_ has joined #wot-td

14:48:50 [kaz]

ack k

14:48:51 [kaz]

q+

14:49:01 [dape]

... after meeting I would like to create issue in use-case repo

14:49:11 [dape]

CA: Looks good

14:49:22 [dape]

... look for some "actionable"

14:49:26 [dape]

... like missing features

14:50:10 [dape]

EK: any point about user/implementer ?

14:51:14 [dape]

CA: for implementer it might be interesting to know "uncharted" territories

14:51:59 [dape]

... if it already exists they can ping people working on this use case

14:52:05 [Ege]

q?

14:52:33 [dape]

Kaz: If this is a proposal from TD for use-case ... that is fine

14:52:55 [dape]

... we as a WG we need to think about which feature will be used

14:53:12 [dape]

... this is part of use-cases

14:53:23 [dape]

... we need to have further discussions

14:53:31 [dape]

EK: not about feedback from task force

14:54:05 [dape]

... more about what we are expecting as input from use-case TF

14:54:37 [dape]

Kaz: from my view point it sounds like use-case TF should work on use case if TD needs one

14:54:45 [dape]

EK: Really not!

14:55:21 [dape]

Kaz: maybe we should discuss/clarify better the directions

14:55:41 [dape]

EK: <updating text in wiki to make it clearer>

14:56:13 [dape]

... I will create one issue with what we have for now in use-case repo

14:56:23 [dape]

Kaz: creating issue is possible

14:56:43 [dape]

... need to clarify who should do what

14:57:10 [dape]

EK: Kaz, you asked us about our expectations some weeks ago

14:57:49 [dape]

Kaz: If this inline with Mizushima-san that is fine

14:58:05 [dape]

EK: we need to wrap up call.. sorry

14:58:31 [dape]

Kaz: maybe my question was not clear enough... suggest to handle the proposal as part of use-case

14:58:37 [dape]

EK: Yes, exactly

14:58:51 [kaz]

s/enough.../enough 5 mins ago/

14:59:03 [kaz]

s/suggest/I just suggested/

14:59:14 [dape]

... one point missing is Geo-location requirements .. mentioned by M. Lagally

14:59:18 [dape]

EK: AOB?

14:59:27 [dape]

<adjourned>

14:59:28 [kaz]

s/use-case/the Use Cases TF's Use Case handling discussion./

15:00:31 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:00:32 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz