14:00:16 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:00:20 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-irc
14:00:51 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
14:01:00 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:01:21 <Ege> Ege has joined #wot-td
14:01:21 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Daniel_Peintner Michael_Koster
14:02:37 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot-td
14:03:08 <luca_barbato> luca_barbato has joined #wot-td
14:03:19 <ktoumura> ktoumura has joined #wot-td
14:04:05 <dape> scribe: dape
14:05:20 <dape> TOPIC: Minutes
14:05:28 <dape> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/02/08-wot-td-minutes.html
14:05:33 <dape> EK: some typos
14:05:38 <dape> Kaz: fixed by now
14:07:19 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:07:28 <dape> TOPIC: Organizational
14:07:39 <dape> EK: may not be available on 28 and 29 of Feb
14:07:46 <kaz> s/html/html Feb-8/
14:07:50 <dape> ... M. Koster could chair
14:07:57 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:07:59 <dape> MK: I am available those days
14:08:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:08:21 <dape> s/28 and 29 of Feb/28 and 29 of Feb, definitely not available March 20-21
14:08:31 <dape> TOPIC: Bindings
14:08:58 <dape> EK: Discussed yesterday Ben's proposal
14:09:15 <luca_barbato> q+
14:09:16 <dape> ... we missed to discuss "Where should the discussion continue"
14:09:20 <kaz> q+
14:09:26 <dape> ... maybe we can bring up the topic in main call
14:09:51 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:09:53 <dape> LB: we should discuss it in main call
14:10:04 <dape> ... if we have consensus
14:10:19 <kaz> present+ Kazeem_Oladipupo
14:10:37 <dape> ... we can move parts from profile that are not describable in TD at the moment
14:10:57 <dape> ... we should agree whether we want to close Profile 1.0 first
14:11:07 <dape> ... continue after with Profile 2.0 work
14:11:24 <dape> ... first step, come up with plan that everyone in main call can agree
14:11:36 <dape> ... start work in TD next
14:11:55 <dape> EK: Agree
14:12:01 <dape> ... agreement needs to come first
14:12:10 <dape> ... Ben said Profile 1.0 could be  a note
14:12:18 <dape> ... should be part of main call discussion
14:12:19 <dape> q?
14:12:22 <dape> ack luca_barbato
14:12:51 <dape> Kaz: Agree with Luca that we need further discussion in main call
14:12:57 <dape> ... how to handle profile in general
14:13:12 <dape> .. the whole WG needs to clarify what the "new" profile should describe
14:13:16 <dape> EK: Agree also
14:13:26 <dape> ... this task force seems to have already consensus
14:13:38 <kaz> q?
14:13:39 <dape> ... lets discuss it further in main call
14:13:40 <kaz> ack k
14:13:40 <dape> ack kaz
14:13:47 <kaz> s/lets/let's/
14:14:21 <dape> TOPIC: TD
14:14:24 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#February_14_and_February_15%2C_2024
14:14:33 <dape> SUBTOPIC: TM Namespace
14:14:44 <dape> EK: issue about TD namespace not available etc
14:14:51 <dape> ... see https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1807
14:14:59 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20
14:15:03 <dape> ... addressed by: https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20
14:15:26 <dape> ... we missed to add it to redirection table
14:15:52 <dape> ... PR20 fixes it in documention
14:15:59 <kaz> i|issue about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1807 Issue 1807 - TM namespace not active yet
14:16:06 <dape> s/documention/documentation
14:16:09 <kaz> q+
14:16:22 <dape> EK: Kaz needs to fix it in redirections settings
14:16:42 <dape> Kaz: Wondering when and how to merge PR?
14:16:56 <dape> EK: Suggest to merge it now.. and redirection changes after the call
14:17:09 <dape> ... or leave PR open til settings are fixed
14:17:21 <kaz> i|issue about|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/20 wot-resources PR 20 - TD 1.1 Resource Finalization|
14:17:28 <dape> Kaz: maybe we can look at details of PRs a bit more
14:17:55 <dape> EK: PR adds option to get text/html with content negotation also
14:18:02 <kaz> q+
14:18:46 <dape> EK: .htaccess file needs to be updated to provide html if someone asks for HTML
14:19:12 <dape> Kaz: The requirement needs to be clear first
14:19:22 <dape> ... and requirement should be recorded
14:19:49 <kaz> s/maybe we can/If we'd like to merge the PR 20 not, we should/
14:19:57 <dape> EK: requirement: people  who ask for TM.html should be able to get it via content negotation #
14:20:06 <dape> s/negotation #/negotation
14:20:23 <dape> EK: Will merge it now
14:20:37 <dape> ... gonna close issue once redirection settings are done
14:20:53 <kaz> s/negotiation/negotiation with specifying TM (without .html) and the html media type./
14:20:55 <dape> ... issue 1807
14:21:09 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Templates
14:21:20 <kaz> s|html media|text/html media|
14:21:25 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:26 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:32 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Profinet Binding
14:21:55 <dape> EK: Kazeem created draft PR
14:22:15 <dape> KO: Within Siemens we are working on PROFINET
14:22:17 <kaz> i|Binding|(wot-resources PR 20 merged; wot-thing-description Issue 1807 to be closed later)|
14:22:22 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:22:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:22:41 <dape> ... that's why I started to work on binding template for it
14:22:52 <dape> q?
14:23:19 <dape> EK: Kazeem did not use pipeline yet
14:23:23 <kaz> i|Kazeem c|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/351 PR 351 - creating a PROFINET binding template file|
14:23:26 <kaz> ack k
14:23:26 <dape> ... he will work on it
14:23:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:23:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:23:35 <dape> ... we do have already JSON Schema
14:23:48 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
14:23:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:23:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:24:26 <kaz> s/content negotation/content negotiation/
14:24:26 <Ege> q?
14:24:26 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:27 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:24:40 <kaz> q+
14:24:40 <dape> EK: new area of WoT
14:24:51 <dape> ... thanks Kazeem
14:25:05 <dape> Kaz: Can you give more description of PROFINET?
14:25:19 <kaz> s/of/on/
14:25:19 <dape> KO: Sure
14:26:09 <dape> ... PROFINET is mainly an ethernet protocol in industrial (real time)
14:26:35 <dape> ... controller has its own channel
14:26:41 <dape> ... supervisor has its own channel also
14:26:56 <dape> ... main problem we try to fix
14:26:58 <kaz> s|via content negotiation|via content negotiation with specifying TM (without .html) and the text/html media type.
14:27:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:27:10 <kaz> q+
14:27:51 <dape> Kaz: more interested in the areas where it is used
14:27:58 <dape> ... user level information
14:28:14 <dape> KO: PROFINET is an industrial protocol
14:28:30 <dape> ... lower/faster than the OPCUA
14:28:49 <kaz> s/closed later/closed later - to be moved right after "issue 1807"/
14:28:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:28:59 <kaz> ack k
14:28:59 <dape> ... commonly used at shopfloor to control and monitor field devices
14:29:12 <kaz> q+
14:29:23 <dape> EK: I think this is good for an introduction
14:29:35 <dape> s/good for/good enough for
14:30:27 <dape> Kaz: Maybe we can clarify why we need it in addition to OPCUA / BACnet
14:30:39 <dape> ... does it become more popular?
14:30:47 <dape> EK: It is already very popular
14:31:14 <dape> ... OPCUA will never replace it because of real time constraints
14:31:39 <dape> Kaz: Adding that one-line to PR might be useful as well
14:32:00 <dape> KO: Okay, will do
14:32:18 <dape> EK: highlighting relevance is good
14:33:11 <kaz> s/more interested in the areas where it is used/sorry but we should clarify why we want and need to add this in addition to the current target protocols./
14:33:11 <dape> ... please comment  in PR if there are questions/comments
14:33:21 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:33:23 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:33:29 <dape> TOPIC: Use Case Discussion
14:33:33 <dape> EK: Looked at labelling work
14:33:47 <dape> ... finished it
14:34:35 <dape> ... scripting API issues can be opened now
14:34:38 <kaz> q+
14:34:42 <dape> CA: okay
14:34:48 <dape> ... thanks!
14:35:11 <dape> EK: from TD side we should make clear that an other task force requires it
14:35:27 <dape> CA: wonder what we do if we find already existing issues
14:35:41 <dape> EK: "needed by other TF" label can be used
14:36:09 <dape> Kaz: proposal should be discussed in use case call
14:36:22 <dape> EK: for TD it is already decided
14:36:44 <dape> Kaz: should be careful how to deal with use-case proposal
14:36:55 <dape> EK: use-cases are not yet submitted
14:37:20 <dape> ... we just wanted to filter out other stuff first
14:37:57 <dape> Kaz: file itself was created in use-case repo
14:38:15 <dape> ... procedure should be clear
14:38:22 <dape> EK: already part of proposal
14:38:34 <dape> Kaz: document as  a whole is draft proposal
14:38:44 <dape> EK: correct
14:38:55 <dape> ... should be careful
14:39:57 <Ege> q?
14:40:21 <dape> Kaz: Yes, we should be careful. Also as part of use-case agenda etc
14:40:33 <dape> ... be clear what has been done and what should be done in the future
14:40:49 <dape> EK: Yes, clear
14:41:33 <dape> ... with the label not having "use-case" label we can look at them
14:41:38 <dape> ... there are still many
14:41:54 <dape> ... some other labels are applied like "semantics" etc
14:42:06 <dape> ... we can work to further categorize them
14:42:09 <dape> MK: Agree
14:42:28 <dape> ... how many are use-case ?
14:42:36 <dape> EK: 112 are not use-case
14:42:47 <dape> .. out of 210 ... more than half are not use-case
14:42:58 <dape> ... ~ 85 are use-case relevant
14:43:11 <kaz> i|Yes, clear|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/member-wot-wg/2024Feb/0000.html Ege's message on Issue Filtering (Member-only)|
14:43:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:43:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:43:24 <dape> ... in binding templates 46 are not use-case .. 28 were use-case relevant
14:43:56 <kaz> q+
14:44:26 <dape> Kaz: when we say "not use-case" ... do you mean editorial ?
14:44:41 <dape> EK: yes, "editorial", "tooling", "refactoring" ...
14:44:58 <dape> ... "validation" / "semantics"
14:45:04 <dape> ... some are still not clear
14:46:04 <dape> Kaz: In any case we need clarify the categories for spec transition
14:46:25 <kaz> s/need clarify/need to clarify/
14:46:38 <kaz> s/transition/transition, so I asked for clarification./
14:47:07 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Expectations of stakeholders from the use case TF and the use case process
14:47:36 <dape> EK: would like to get the last feedback from people about their expectations
14:48:03 <dape> ... expectations about "what you would like to see from use-cases work"
14:48:12 <dape> ... or developers
14:48:26 <mjk> q?
14:48:32 <dape> ... there are currently comments from Ege and Luca
14:48:43 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-td
14:48:50 <kaz> ack k
14:48:51 <kaz> q+
14:49:01 <dape> ... after meeting I would like to create issue in use-case repo
14:49:11 <dape> CA: Looks good
14:49:22 <dape> ... look for some "actionable"
14:49:26 <dape> ... like missing features
14:50:10 <dape> EK: any point about user/implementer ?
14:51:14 <dape> CA: for implementer it might be interesting to know "uncharted" territories
14:51:59 <dape> ... if it already exists they can ping people working on this use case
14:52:05 <Ege> q?
14:52:33 <dape> Kaz: If this is a proposal from TD for use-case ... that is fine
14:52:55 <dape> ... we as a WG we need to think about which feature will be used
14:53:12 <dape> ... this is part of use-cases
14:53:23 <dape> ... we need to have further discussions
14:53:31 <dape> EK: not about feedback from task force
14:54:05 <dape> ... more about what we are expecting as input from use-case TF
14:54:37 <dape> Kaz: from my view point it sounds like use-case TF should work on use case if TD needs one
14:54:45 <dape> EK: Really not!
14:55:21 <dape> Kaz: maybe we should discuss/clarify better the directions
14:55:41 <dape> EK: <updating text in wiki to make it clearer>
14:56:13 <dape> ... I will create one issue with what we have for now in use-case repo
14:56:23 <dape> Kaz: creating issue is possible
14:56:43 <dape> ... need to clarify who should do what
14:57:10 <dape> EK: Kaz, you asked us about our expectations some weeks ago
14:57:49 <dape> Kaz: If this inline with Mizushima-san that is fine
14:58:05 <dape> EK: we need to wrap up call.. sorry
14:58:31 <dape> Kaz: maybe my question was not clear enough... suggest to handle the proposal as part of use-case
14:58:37 <dape> EK: Yes, exactly
14:58:51 <kaz> s/enough.../enough 5 mins ago/
14:59:03 <kaz> s/suggest/I just suggested/
14:59:14 <dape> ... one point missing is Geo-location requirements .. mentioned by M. Lagally
14:59:18 <dape> EK: AOB?
14:59:27 <dape> <adjourned>
14:59:28 <kaz> s/use-case/the Use Cases TF's Use Case handling discussion./
15:00:31 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:00:32 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/15-wot-td-minutes.html kaz