W3C

– DRAFT –
RDF-star Semantics TF

09 February 2024

Attendees

Present
AndyS, doerthe, enrico, gkellogg, niklasl, pfps, TallTed, tl
Regrets
az, ora, souri
Chair
-
Scribe
TallTed

Meeting minutes

more discussion of https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/blob/main/docs/seeking-consensus-2024-01.html

<enrico> :e rdf:nameOf _:b1 .

<enrico> _:b1 rdf:subject :s .

<enrico> _:b1 rdf:predicate :p .

<enrico> _:b1 rdf:object :o .

<enrico> :e rdf:nameOf _:b1 . _:b1 rdf:subject :s . _:b1 rdf:predicate :p . _:b1 rdf:object :o .

<enrico> :e rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :s . _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o .

pronoun "he" does not always mean the same pronoun "he". same with pronoun b-nodes.

<AndyS> "Agreed syntax to Turtle" -- https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Feb/0005.html

<niklasl> +1 to Gregg

<gkellogg> My point was to draw a similarity, but incompatibility, between option 1 and option 3. Option 2 seems closer to option 3, but the blank node denotes a triple token (from RDF 1.1 Semantics), which is already different from a triple type.

<tl> repeating this: < :e | :s :p :o >> is IMO a valid alternative to option 3, and maps to option 1 

<tl> << :e | :s :p :o >> of course

<doerthe> can you please re-post, I joined later :)

<doerthe> thank you, TallTed

<niklasl> Option 1 is "too close" to the token, option 2 is indirecting to tokens as if they where types...

<AndyS> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Jan/0138.html

<AndyS> "... with `_:b` a fresh new blank node, unique within the RDF graph."

<enrico> email of the 23rd January by me with subject [IMPORTANT] Necessary revision of the sugar proposal

<enrico> Email with well-founded condition for option 2: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Jan/0138.html

<niklasl> My (perhaps weak) concern with option one (semantically) is that it conflates a triple token and a use of a triple... From another perspective, I also think it easily conflates two or more (see "overclaims" in https://hackmd.io/129IsEZ5S2OaOsD7LOFOKw?view)...

<niklasl> RDF/XML rdf:ID on arcs only works for option 1 with hash IRIs.

assertion != truth!

<niklasl> +1 to how Andy put it re. "why not option 4 / RDFn", basically it may be a good idea if we started defining RDF from scratch.

<niklasl> (Caveat: not sure I paraphrazed it correctly.)

<tl> Dörthe says that Option 2 introduces opacity through the back door

<enrico> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star-wg/2024Jan/0138.html

<enrico> :e1 rdf:nameOf _:b1 . _:b1 rdf:subject :s . _:b1 rdf:predicate :p . _:b1 rdf:object :o .

<enrico> :e2 rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :s . _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o .

<enrico> e1 rdf:nameOf _:b1 . _:b1 rdf:subject :s . _:b1 rdf:predicate :p . _:b1 rdf:object :o .

<enrico> :e2 rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :ss . _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o . :s owl:same-as :ss .

<doerthe> entails: :e2 rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :s . _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o .

<doerthe> but no well-formedness with: entails: :e2 rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :s , :ss. _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o .

<doerthe> but no well-formedness with: :e2 rdf:nameOf _:b2 . _:b2 rdf:subject :s , :ss. _:b2 rdf:predicate :p . _:b2 rdf:object :o .

<tl> merging option 1 and 2: [] rdf:subject :s ; rdf:predicate :p ; rdf:object :o ; rdf:hasName :e

Schroedinger's blank node.

Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 221 (Fri Jul 21 14:01:30 2023 UTC).

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No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: TallTed

Active on IRC: AndyS, doerthe, enrico, gkellogg, niklasl, TallTed, tl