13:24:12 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:24:16 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-irc
13:24:16 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:24:17 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:24:33 <janina> zakim, who's here?
13:24:33 <Zakim> Present: (no one)
13:24:35 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, roy__, janina, gb, imlostlmao, AnthonySpencer, M2cshkpcgrp, SintayewGashaw, matrix638, joraboi445, gonzu_15, sonicscrewdriver, slightlyoff, Rachael,
13:24:35 <Zakim> ... cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
13:25:48 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:25:57 <janina> Date: 07 Feb 2024
13:32:28 <janina> Chair:  Janina
13:32:28 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:32:28 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:32:31 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:32:34 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:32:36 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:32:39 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:32:41 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:32:44 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:32:46 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:32:49 <janina> agenda+ be done
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14:52:26 <kirkwood> kirkwood has joined #APA
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14:57:40 <janina> present+
14:59:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #APA
15:00:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:00:50 <PaulG> present+
15:01:30 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:01:33 <Fredrik> present+
15:02:20 <matatk> matatk has joined #apa
15:02:31 <matatk> present+
15:02:34 <matatk> agenda?
15:04:28 <matatk> scribe+
15:04:35 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:04:35 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:06:45 <janina> scribe+
15:06:52 <janina> matatk: Something we should be part of
15:06:56 <matatk> subtopic: W3C Breakouts day
15:06:57 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/2024/03/breakouts-day-2024/
15:07:21 <janina> matatk: At TPAC, Wednesdays include breakouts
15:07:36 <janina> matatk: W3C is doing a Breakouts Day in March; Proposals welcome
15:08:12 <janina> matatk: Possible APA activities that might be appropriate include Adapt, Tooling under dev; etc
15:08:22 <janina> matatk: Worth submitting; worth raising on this call
15:08:39 <nehaj> nehaj has joined #apa
15:08:54 <nehaj> present+
15:09:09 <Nichole_> Nichole_ has joined #apa
15:09:16 <Nichole_> present+
15:09:29 <janina> matatk: Deadline for proposal is Feb 29th
15:10:08 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: This is virtual TPAC?
15:10:11 <janina> matatk: Yes
15:10:21 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Would like to do an Adapt breakout
15:10:32 <janina> matatk: Suggesting WK
15:10:41 <janina> s/WK/Weell Known/
15:11:27 <matatk> q?
15:11:30 <Nehaj_> Nehaj_ has joined #apa
15:12:34 <matatk> janina: TPAC is in late September: https://www.w3.org/news-events/w3c-tpac/
15:12:38 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:12:38 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
15:13:05 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:13:05 <Zakim> agendum 2 closed
15:13:06 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:13:06 <Zakim> 3. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
15:13:08 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:13:08 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
15:13:33 <matatk> 	subtopic: Accessible Rich Internet Applications 1.3
15:13:47 <matatk> 	 	issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/72
15:13:59 <matatk> 		spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.3/
15:15:20 <matatk> What's changed since 1.2: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.3/#changelog
15:17:36 <matatk> janina: This is an FPWD; we're not holding up CR.
15:17:49 <matatk> ... Best thing we can do is look at the areas that have changed, and give some early feedback
15:18:19 <matatk> ... along the lines of scope - is it too much? is there something that we think they should look into?
15:18:41 <matatk> ... There's a lot of work to do on it, and we will be asked for a final review when they go to CR.
15:18:47 <matatk> ... So: scoping concerns are most important now.
15:18:54 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:18:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:19:03 <janina> q?
15:19:43 <matatk> Fredrik: How does ARIA WG respond to feedback?
15:19:59 <matatk> janina: We have a good relationship; they'll ACK our feedback, and often take things up.
15:20:32 <matatk> janina: They also keep a list of things that they are holding for 2.0, which they may add some of our suggestions to; either way we'll find out from them - and we should look at those lists first.
15:21:14 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
15:21:17 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:21:33 <matatk> ARIA 1.3 issues: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22ARIA+1.3%22
15:21:38 <janina> q?
15:22:19 <matatk> ARIA 2.0 issues: https://github.com/w3c/aria/issues?q=is%3Aopen+is%3Aissue+label%3A%22ARIA+2.0%22+
15:23:04 <janina> janina: If you think something missing from scope, be sure to check the 2.0 list
15:23:16 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:23:16 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:23:32 <matatk> 	subtopic: Update the accessibility section 14 to include RFC 8865 for real-time text in WebRTC data channel
15:23:34 <mike_beganyi> q+
15:23:39 <matatk> 		- issue: https://github.com/w3c/webrtc-pc/issues/2931
15:23:55 <mike_beganyi> scribe+
15:23:55 <matatk> scribe+ mike_beganyi
15:24:04 <mike_beganyi> ack mike_beganyi
15:25:09 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: RQTF
15:25:33 <mike_beganyi> janina: bespoke for RQTF to look at this topic. very much covered by previous discussion. most discussion should be captured by RAUR which are now an APA note
15:26:13 <matatk> Digital Accessibility User Requirements: https://www.w3.org/WAI/research/user-requirements/
15:26:40 <mike_beganyi> janina: approached Media Accessibilty User Requirements many years ago. This was very successful in HTML5 and have since taken on other areas in this fashion
15:27:13 <matatk> q+
15:27:35 <mike_beganyi> janina: flagged this issue and read far enough to recognize what it was about (the issue at the outset of this discussion). support in comms protocols that tries to capture communication at the character level
15:28:39 <mike_beganyi> ...this is about capturing all the text coming through and what are the accessibility concerns with that
15:29:08 <matatk> 	subtopic:  [css-scrollbars] Upgrade to Recommendation?
15:29:11 <mike_beganyi> ...this should be brought into RQTF, which happened today and it is in the notes
15:29:14 <matatk> 		- issue: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9508
15:29:57 <janina> q?
15:30:01 <janina> ack ma
15:30:07 <mike_beganyi> matatk: moving css scrollbar to recommendation. what if scrollbars are styled and are confusing to some. is the task to come up with accessibility considerations specific to scrollbars?
15:30:08 <PaulG> https://drafts.csswg.org/css-scrollbars/#accessibility-considerations
15:30:10 <janina> subtopic+ CSS Scrollbars
15:30:17 <janina> janina: Begins above ... Sorry!
15:30:32 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: they have an accessibility considerations section. maybe we won't find anything new but worth a look.
15:30:52 <mike_beganyi> q?
15:31:41 <matatk> tracking issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/184
15:32:03 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: other considerations here which we can discuss
15:32:07 <janina> rssagent, make minutes
15:32:18 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:32:19 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-minutes.html janina
15:33:53 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: size of the thumb, colour, contrast, making it thin, etc. Potential for lots of affordance loss
15:33:57 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Transparency also
15:34:56 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: My overall caveat is to just say: if you touch these properties, you are required to meet WCAG guidelines for the scrollbar. Since you took over control, you own the scrollbar and its accessibility considerations.
15:35:18 <mike_beganyi> janina: would like to +1 that. It's an important comment that we can use as a template
15:35:44 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:35:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:35:51 <mike_beganyi> ...another example is a Submit button which is customized by the author. form can be completed but not submitted
15:35:52 <matatk> q+
15:36:01 <mike_beganyi> ...would you rather accept boring or take on the accessibility requirements for it?
15:36:38 <mike_beganyi> janina: you own it, you are responsible
15:37:32 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: Don't need to fix focus in Chrome if you haven't touched it, as another example
15:37:51 <mike_beganyi> janina: to a greater or lesser degree, the big players have paid attention to this and have done a pretty good job of it
15:38:16 <matatk> q?
15:38:18 <matatk> ack me
15:38:22 <janina> q?
15:39:02 <mike_beganyi> matatk: put link to tracking issue on GitHub. I have put a comment on the issue to note areas that were not mentioned in the Accessibility Considerations section
15:39:26 <mike_beganyi> ...already got something approaching an accessibility considerations note with the number of points we've made collectively
15:41:17 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #apa
15:41:49 <matatk> 	subtopic: [css-zoom?] Zoom and CSSOM
15:42:03 <matatk> 		- issue: https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9398
15:42:17 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:42:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-minutes.html janina
15:43:35 <matatk>  - our tracking issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-review/issues/183
15:43:36 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: about how resize is reported while under css zoom. Argument was that some platforms tried to recalculate and some didn't and so it would be less taxing on authors and engines to return the original size and shape through the original APIs
15:43:47 <matatk> q?
15:44:00 <mike_beganyi> ...if used a 2x on something then it's the original but literally bigger, but where it sits is incumbent on the author if that calculation was needed
15:45:07 <mike_beganyi> PaulG: focus not obscured didn't change, it's that the API is just setting a baseline across platforms. You still need to follow Focus Not Obscured and there's a tool to help achieve that. Intention is to make things more consistent.
15:46:01 <mike_beganyi> janina: Trying to figure out how to close these issues. I'm inclined to work offline on this one with Mat and Paul
15:46:26 <mike_beganyi> matatk: Maybe just close this
15:46:42 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:46:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
15:47:02 <mike_beganyi> janina: ARIA 1.3 FPWD published. See above. The link is above in the minutes.
15:48:01 <mike_beganyi> matatk: We should look at this as a group. Maybe I'll look at it and bring back any comments.
15:48:08 <mike_beganyi> q+
15:48:17 <mike_beganyi> Fredrik: I have a relaxed Friday so can take a look also
15:48:47 <janina> ack mi
15:48:47 <matatk> mike_beganyi: Happy to take a look at ARIA 1.3
15:49:01 <PaulG> I read through the changes last week and didn't see anything that jumped out.
15:49:23 <mike_beganyi> matatk: will assign the three of us to that tracking issue and point to minutes.
15:49:41 <matatk> q?
15:49:53 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:49:53 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:50:05 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:50:05 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
15:50:06 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:50:06 <Zakim> 7. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
15:50:07 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:50:07 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
15:50:26 <mike_beganyi> janina: anything to report on?
15:50:48 <mike_beganyi> Fredrik: haven't looked at Device Orientation spec but will shortly
15:51:58 <mike_beganyi> janina: expect in a few weeks or a bit longer a presentation on approach that will help us out, care of of Mat
15:52:18 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:52:18 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
15:52:48 <janina> isubtopic: RQTF
15:52:56 <mike_beganyi> subtopic: RQTF
15:53:38 <mike_beganyi> in COGA call, we did revisit current method between COGA and APA and that we think the process is working. Our process gave us a way to address concerns raised during process and double-check them. We're happy with our current process. This is an achievement.
15:54:06 <mike_beganyi> zakim, close this item
15:54:06 <Zakim> agendum 8 closed
15:54:07 <Zakim> I see 2 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:54:07 <Zakim> 9. Other Business [from janina]
15:54:08 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:54:08 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
15:54:18 <mike_beganyi> q+
15:54:57 <matatk> mike_beganyi: Going back to template wording on accessibility considerations: I'm happy to help, alongside someone else.
15:55:13 <matatk> janina: A 'standard warranty paragraph' - happy to have your help; we can work on it.
15:56:01 <matatk> janina: It may become a short general APA note we can publish.
15:56:15 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:56:15 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, mike_beganyi
15:56:21 <mike_beganyi> ack mi
15:56:22 <matatk> ack mike_beganyi
15:56:24 <mike_beganyi> zakim, next item
15:56:24 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:56:39 <matatk> janina: Thanks everyone! Thanks mike_beganyi for scribing.
15:56:46 <mike_beganyi> janina: thanks to all for all your contributions. Looking forward to all future endeavours with this group.
15:56:49 <matatk> janina: We appreciate you all, and your input!
15:57:10 <mike_beganyi> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-minutes.html mike_beganyi
15:57:33 <mike_beganyi> zakim, bye
15:57:33 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been janina, Lionel_Wolberger, PaulG, Fredrik, matatk, nehaj, Nichole_, mike_beganyi
15:57:33 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
16:00:12 <matatk> action mike_beganyi: Wording for general Accessibility Considerations section
16:00:59 <matatk> gb, status
16:00:59 <gb> matatk, the delay is 15, issues are off, names are off, full issues are printed 10 at a time; and the repository is https://github.com/w3c/apa
16:01:24 <matatk> gb, on
16:01:24 <gb> matatk, OK.
16:02:55 <matatk> action mike_beganyi: Wording for general Accessibility Considerations section
16:02:56 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe mike_beganyi is not a valid user for w3c/apa?
16:12:41 <Nichole_> Nichole_ has left #apa
16:25:51 <janina> zakim, who's here?
16:25:56 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:25:56 <RRSAgent> I see 2 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-actions.rdf :
16:25:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mike_beganyi to Wording for general Accessibility Considerations section [1]
16:25:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-irc#T16-00-12
16:25:56 <RRSAgent> ACTION: mike_beganyi to Wording for general Accessibility Considerations section [2]
16:25:56 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/02/07-apa-irc#T16-02-55
16:25:59 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe mike_beganyi is not a valid user for w3c/apa?
16:26:02 <gb> Cannot create action. Validation failed. Maybe mike_beganyi is not a valid user for w3c/apa?