IRC log of wot on 2024-01-31

Timestamps are in UTC.

13:05:43 [RRSAgent]

RRSAgent has joined #wot

13:05:48 [RRSAgent]

logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-irc

13:05:51 [kaz]

meeting: WoT-WG/IG

13:06:00 [kaz]

chair: McCool, Koster

13:06:39 [dezell]

dezell has joined #wot

13:06:49 [dezell]

present+ David_Ezell

13:06:50 [kaz]

present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato

13:06:57 [kaz]

present+ Mahda_Noura

13:07:17 [matsuda]

matsuda has joined #wot

13:07:19 [kaz]

scribenick: kaz

13:07:55 [mjk]

mjk has joined #wot

13:08:04 [kaz]

topic: Guests, IE

13:08:21 [kaz]

mm: asking the IE applicant about his possible presentation

13:08:26 [kaz]

... but have not got response yet

13:08:59 [kaz]

topic: Minutes

13:09:02 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/24-wot-minutes.html Jan-24

13:10:06 [Mizushima]

Mizushima has joined #wot

13:11:11 [kaz]

typos fixed

13:11:11 [kaz]

approved

13:11:21 [kaz]

topic: Notices

13:11:23 [kaz]

none

13:11:41 [kaz]

q+

13:11:50 [kaz]

ack k

13:12:33 [kaz]

mm: could move (some of) the meetups/events to here in the future

13:12:49 [kaz]

topic: Wiki organization

13:13:03 [kaz]

mm: still working on action items and collaborations

13:13:12 [kaz]

topic: Meeting schedule changes

13:13:27 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events holidays/events

13:13:44 [kaz]

no additional changes

13:14:08 [kaz]

topic: Publication schedule

13:14:18 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md

13:14:26 [kaz]

mm: created a PR to update it

13:14:34 [kaz]

... expecting Sebastian's update also

13:15:33 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1173 wot PR 1173 - Update schedule.md

13:15:55 [kaz]

-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/708207f15209f54dcdb5a771681707fc5ec6b468/planning/schedule.md rendered MD

13:16:20 [kaz]

to be updated/maintained

13:16:28 [kaz]

q+

13:17:12 [kaz]

kaz: we need to keep updating it based on the actual progress

13:17:14 [kaz]

mm: right

13:17:24 [kaz]

topic: Publications

13:17:24 [kaz]

none

13:17:29 [kaz]

topic: Resources

13:17:34 [kaz]

mm: ongoing discussion

13:17:46 [kaz]

... e.g., on Thursday during the TD slot 2 call

13:17:47 [Ege]

brb

13:17:51 [kaz]

s/brb//

13:18:16 [kaz]

... unfortunately, can't make it this week (Wed/Thu) or next week (Wed)

13:18:37 [Ege]

q+

13:18:38 [kaz]

... could discuss it again on next Wed as part of the WG policy discussion

13:18:42 [kaz]

q-

13:18:43 [mlagally]

mlagally has joined #wot

13:18:53 [kaz]

... or during the TD slot 2 call on Thursday

13:18:59 [kaz]

ek: both slots are fine

13:19:04 [mlagally]

zakim, who is on the call?

13:19:04 [Zakim]

Present: David_Ezell, Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura

13:19:26 [kaz]

ack k

13:19:36 [kaz]

mm: wondering how much time to be used

13:19:40 [kaz]

ek: 30 mins?

13:20:02 [kaz]

present+ Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima

13:20:23 [kaz]

mm: we need to clarify our policy for resource management too

13:21:14 [kaz]

agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#31_January_2024

13:21:20 [kaz]

topic: Meetups

13:21:26 [kaz]

subtopic: WoT CG

13:21:45 [kaz]

ek: had a tutorial

13:22:02 [kaz]

... updated PR 139 also

13:22:17 [kaz]

... around the results from the previous meetup

13:22:25 [kaz]

... slides also

13:22:35 [kaz]

present+ Michael_Lagally

13:22:48 [Ege]

https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/dafab839-0eba-46f2-89b1-634539577b9b/

13:22:51 [kaz]

... next meetup on Feb 15

13:23:02 [kaz]

... about medical equipments

13:23:07 [kaz]

q+

13:23:11 [kaz]

ack e

13:23:23 [kaz]

... also will welcome Ben Francis after that

13:23:32 [mlagally]

q+

13:23:41 [kaz]

... two more planned

13:24:23 [kaz]

ml: which company?

13:24:37 [kaz]

ek: opensource project organized by some university

13:24:49 [kaz]

ack ml

13:25:27 [kaz]

kaz: please think about possible use case description based on those presentations :)

13:25:31 [kaz]

ek: yeah

13:25:40 [kaz]

rrsagent, make log public

13:25:44 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:25:45 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

13:26:13 [McCool]

q?

13:26:14 [kaz]

q?

13:26:16 [kaz]

ack k

13:26:22 [kaz]

q+ ml

13:27:20 [kaz]

ml: btw, I found some problem about the wiki

13:27:55 [kaz]

i/btw/topic: Wiki issue/

13:28:08 [kaz]

(detail to be clarified)

13:28:22 [kaz]

topic: Meetups - revisited

13:28:34 [kaz]

subtopic: WoT-JP CG

13:28:43 [mlagally]

s#wiki#wiki page at: https://www.w3.org/WoT/activities/meetings/#

13:29:03 [kaz]

tm: planning to hold a seminar on "Web-based Smart Cities" on Feb-2

13:29:33 [kaz]

... also planning to hold another seminar on "WoT Security" on Mar-8

13:29:37 [kaz]

mm: any links?

13:30:21 [kaz]

-> https://wot-jp-cg.connpass.com/event/307891/ Web-based Smart Cities Seminar

13:30:53 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:30:55 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

13:32:15 [kaz]

subtopic: Nordic CG

13:32:18 [kaz]

no updates

13:32:25 [kaz]

subtopic: Others

13:32:44 [kaz]

ek: Global Summit for Node.js on Feb 21

13:32:51 [kaz]

... also HiveMQ Community Event

13:33:01 [kaz]

s/Event/Event on March 26

13:33:07 [kaz]

s/March/Mar/

13:33:19 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:33:20 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

13:33:33 [dape]

dape has joined #wot

13:33:40 [kaz]

... first one requires participation fee

13:33:46 [kaz]

... second one is free

13:33:54 [kaz]

... videos will be available

13:33:58 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:33:59 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

13:34:08 [kaz]

mm: Ege, do you have presentations ready?

13:34:14 [kaz]

ek: not yet

13:34:17 [kaz]

... thinking about live coding

13:34:41 [kaz]

present+ Daniel_Peintner

13:34:58 [kaz]

topic: Liaisons, Collaborations

13:35:07 [kaz]

mm: moved the content to a sub page

13:35:21 [kaz]

-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf/Liaisons Liaisons sub page

13:35:30 [kaz]

mm: need to be updated

13:36:11 [kaz]

... also could request to review documents, e.g., to IRTF T2TRG

13:36:42 [Ege]

q+

13:36:47 [kaz]

ack ml

13:36:59 [kaz]

... should update it

13:38:18 [kaz]

... Kaz, as the official W3C liaison, you might want to add the link from this wiki page to the W3C official liaison table

13:38:21 [kaz]

kaz: ok

13:39:05 [kaz]

mm: will continue to work on Collaborations section and Actions section to make them separate sub pages

13:39:15 [kaz]

q?

13:40:09 [kaz]

ek: ASHRAE is listed as "Possible"

13:40:14 [kaz]

... what about BACnet?

13:40:24 [kaz]

q+

13:40:27 [kaz]

ack e

13:40:42 [kaz]

... BACnet is a trademark of ASHRAE. right?

13:41:12 [kaz]

mjk: it's just a working group within ASHRAE

13:41:38 [kaz]

mm: (fixes those 2 lines into one: ASHRAE (BACnet)

13:42:12 [kaz]

s/)/))/

13:42:29 [kaz]

topic: TF reports

13:42:47 [kaz]

mm: some of the TFs are skipped this week

13:42:53 [kaz]

subtopic: Scripting

13:42:59 [kaz]

dp: missed the first part

13:43:13 [kaz]

... collecting issues to be solved first

13:43:19 [kaz]

... and discussing how to proceed

13:43:27 [kaz]

subtopic: Marketing

13:43:42 [kaz]

ek: Mastodon is now nicely integrated

13:43:58 [kaz]

... accessible link based on W3C requirements

13:44:05 [kaz]

... keep Mastodon account

13:44:27 [Ege]

https://www.w3.org/WoT/

13:44:45 [kaz]

s/https/-> https/

13:44:57 [kaz]

s|WoT/|WoT/ WoT Marketing page|

13:45:26 [kaz]

mm: (shows the marketing page including the Mastodon instance)

13:45:34 [kaz]

subtopic: Use Cases

13:45:47 [kaz]

tm: held a call today

13:45:54 [kaz]

... myself proposed a basic workflow

13:45:59 [kaz]

... and approved

13:46:17 [kaz]

... then started concrete discussion

13:46:41 [kaz]

... create GitHub Issues based on the feedback from the previous call

13:46:59 [kaz]

... then discussed GitHub Issues, e.g., Functional vs Technical

13:47:07 [kaz]

... will continue the discussion

13:47:11 [kaz]

subtopic: TD/Binding

13:47:27 [kaz]

ek: identified 150 issues

13:47:49 [kaz]

... 4-5 people already working on

13:48:03 [kaz]

... process improvement collaboratively done with the Use Cases T

13:48:07 [kaz]

s/T/TF/

13:48:12 [kaz]

q+

13:48:28 [kaz]

kaz: also the discussion around resource management :)

13:48:30 [kaz]

ek: right

13:48:31 [kaz]

ack k

13:48:34 [mlagally]

q+

13:48:42 [kaz]

mm: will continue the discussion next week again

13:48:47 [kaz]

ack ml

13:49:00 [kaz]

ml: what about the Profile TF?

13:49:11 [kaz]

i/what about/subtopic: Profile TF/

13:49:25 [kaz]

... getting a volunteer for the moderator

13:49:35 [kaz]

mm: good question

13:49:57 [kaz]

... ot select a new TF leader means

13:50:00 [kaz]

s/ot/to/

13:50:22 [kaz]

s/leader means/leader, we should send a call-for-nominations/

13:50:29 [kaz]

... and then can accept a volunteer

13:51:00 [kaz]

... Luca already has volunteered as a moderator

13:51:04 [kaz]

lb: yes

13:51:30 [kaz]

mm: we still open the door to everybody, and should wait for some more responses too

13:51:31 [kaz]

q+

13:51:50 [Ege]

+1 to that

13:52:14 [kaz]

ml: how to manage the wiki page?

13:52:32 [kaz]

mm: should have separate wiki pages one by one, one for Architecture and another for Profile

13:52:36 [kaz]

q?

13:53:07 [kaz]

ack k

13:53:51 [kaz]

kaz: will we send out a reminder about the Call-for-nomination for Profile TF leader?

13:54:12 [kaz]

mm: will send out a call-for-resolution

13:55:47 [kaz]

... need to describe that as well within the policy

13:56:07 [kaz]

action: McCool to send out a call-for-resolution for the Profile TF moderator

13:56:18 [kaz]

topic: AOB?

13:56:22 [kaz]

none

13:56:56 [mlagally]

Unfortunately I'm not able to attend the next hour

13:57:07 [kaz]

[ break till 5min past the hour ]

13:57:21 [kaz]

s/Unfortunately I'm not able to attend the next hour//

13:57:28 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

13:57:29 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:08:42 [kaz]

q+

14:09:04 [kaz]

ack k

14:09:34 [McCool]

scribenick: McCool

14:09:41 [kaz]

regrets+ Sebastian

14:10:05 [McCool]

mk: have single PR that addresses outstanding issues in background and scope

14:10:22 [McCool]

... look at that first, then look at what else needs to be done in the document

14:10:37 [McCool]

... review and close issues

14:10:44 [Ege]

brb

14:10:59 [kaz]

i/have single/topic: IG Charter/

14:11:02 [kaz]

s/brb//

14:11:03 [McCool]

topic: PR #147

14:11:07 [mjk]

https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/143

14:11:07 [McCool]

s/147/143/

14:11:11 [kaz]

s/topic:/subtopic:/

14:11:34 [kaz]

s/https/-> https/

14:11:52 [kaz]

s/143/143 PR 143 - Update wot-ig-2023-draft.html/

14:11:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:11:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:12:23 [McCool]

mk: aligned mission statement with WG charter

14:12:42 [McCool]

q+

14:14:47 [McCool]

mm: worried that we are not reverting text we discussed before; however, I am ok with the update personally

14:15:02 [McCool]

... although note that the IG does not do specifications.

14:15:37 [McCool]

... although ok because it does not reference IG activities, but "the standards"

14:15:39 [kaz]

q+

14:15:51 [kaz]

ack mc

14:16:07 [McCool]

mk: right, about standards, and just want to align with WG mission

14:16:27 [McCool]

kaz: ok to be aligned, but need to differentiate IG from WG

14:16:38 [McCool]

... IG is to help WG by doing this and that

14:19:01 [McCool]

mm: maybe add some paragraph breaks?

14:19:12 [McCool]

mk: looks like there should be three paragraphs

14:23:34 [kaz]

q?

14:23:36 [kaz]

ack k

14:24:08 [McCool]

mk: ok - adds two paragraph breaks

14:24:46 [kaz]

-> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/c0efdec1fa13845a76294336971afa269dcc063d/wot-ig-2023-draft.html GitHub HTML preview for PR 143

14:24:53 [McCool]

mm: looks good to me

14:25:31 [kaz]

q+

14:25:37 [McCool]

mk: also changed the dates to april to march due to the extension

14:25:45 [mjk]

q?

14:26:14 [McCool]

kaz: no need to worry about dates, will be updated after AC review

14:26:17 [kaz]

ack k

14:26:40 [McCool]

mk: also updated motivation and background

14:27:28 [McCool]

... to align with WG charter, which also updated past/future tenses, etc.

14:27:42 [McCool]

... replace some text with that from the WG charter

14:28:00 [McCool]

... also moved some links

14:28:09 [McCool]

mk: (shows rendered version)

14:28:30 [kaz]

s|https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/c0efdec1fa13845a76294336971afa269dcc063d/wot-ig-2023-draft.html|https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/bb4c24bc5672d81dfcb256bca767ba24cb3821bd/wot-ig-2023-draft.html|

14:28:34 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:28:35 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:29:43 [McCool]

mk: also don't reference all docs, just Arch and TD as starting points

14:29:50 [McCool]

mm: for the record, I'm ok with that.

14:30:24 [mjk]

q?

14:30:37 [McCool]

mk: also define use case and requirements as the priority

14:30:40 [kaz]

q+

14:30:47 [McCool]

mm: agree that is a good priority and good to state

14:32:36 [McCool]

mm: small grammar issue, "between" is not necessary

14:32:41 [McCool]

mk: (fixed)

14:33:35 [McCool]

mk: update on scope section, limited to four points; three main ones

14:34:23 [McCool]

... support the WG, organize and run test events, and develop use cases and requirements; also oversee marketing TF

14:34:37 [kaz]

i|update|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/0a00e0d0a02263db52e5218f83911ee537dbc423/wot-ig-2023-draft.html updated rendered results

14:34:58 [Ege]

q+

14:35:04 [kaz]

ack k

14:35:11 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:35:13 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:35:36 [McCool]

mk: was wondering about the relationship image - but missing in rendering

14:35:46 [McCool]

mm: need to use github.io to see image...

14:36:34 [McCool]

mk: also removed some text about reaching out and collaborating, since that seems more like a WG thing

14:38:18 [kaz]

i|also|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/main/images/wot-ig-2019-relationship.png relationship image 2019|

14:38:26 [kaz]

q+

14:38:52 [McCool]

mm: in the past the IG served an "experimental" role, e.g. part of the plugfest, but we could also do this as part of the UC process

14:39:09 [McCool]

... better to do that than propose random new features without a motivating use case

14:39:22 [mjk]

q?

14:39:31 [McCool]

ege: two comments

14:39:45 [McCool]

... first, entry point to standardization;

14:39:57 [McCool]

... could also see the CG as the entry point

14:40:32 [McCool]

... e.g. if they want to submit a use case; can keep it as is, but not really what we are doing at the moment

14:40:53 [McCool]

... in particular, can take use cases from non-members

14:41:22 [McCool]

mk: word entry point is where there is too much overlap

14:41:39 [McCool]

... but CG is a little further away from "standardization"

14:41:55 [McCool]

... see CG as an alternative way to participate

14:42:29 [McCool]

ege: still feel someone outside reading will be confused about roles, e.g. submit a use case first, or join the CG first?

14:42:58 [McCool]

ege: second point, IG does not really get topics submitted to it from the WG

14:43:05 [McCool]

... is this about Marketing?

14:43:32 [McCool]

mk: one example, requirements already exist for TD being routed back; and yes, Marketing is another example

14:43:55 [McCool]

... we do have joint meetings generally, except for special topics

14:44:47 [McCool]

... when I say the IG will consider new topics, I mean that kind of interaction.

14:44:58 [McCool]

... but we could make that more specific or take it out.

14:45:00 [McCool]

q+

14:45:05 [McCool]

ack ege

14:45:22 [McCool]

mk: maybe put it in a separate relationship section.

14:45:52 [McCool]

mk: anyway, two point: entry points, and topic feedback - both about defining relationship.

14:46:01 [McCool]

ege: second point, some examples would be ok.

14:46:11 [mjk]

q?

14:46:27 [McCool]

kaz: put link for the figure above

14:46:45 [McCool]

... figure from 2019 - probably needs update as well

14:47:00 [McCool]

... for example, does not mention CG, only WG and IG

14:47:17 [Mizushima]

Mizushima has joined #wot

14:48:07 [McCool]

... could add CGs under "Other W3C Groups"

14:48:30 [McCool]

mk: there are multiple CGs however

14:49:15 [McCool]

kaz: my original suggestion was putting CGs explicitly here, but feel we should wrap up with the simpler option, under "other"

14:49:33 [McCool]

... but would still be good to clarify relationships

14:50:03 [McCool]

mk: we could certainly clarify relationships in the docs

14:50:14 [McCool]

... but need more time to think about it

14:50:36 [mjk]

q?

14:50:45 [McCool]

mk: prefer to put CGs explicitly in the diagram

14:51:04 [McCool]

kaz: clarifying relationships is most important

14:51:06 [kaz]

ack k

14:51:56 [kaz]

s/important/important, and we can remove the sentence about "entry point"./

14:52:02 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:52:04 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:52:29 [kaz]

q?

14:52:31 [kaz]

ack mc

14:52:48 [McCool]

mm: agree we can remove entry point; suggest use of plural "WoT CGs" since we have more than one

14:53:11 [McCool]

... suggest keeping diagram simple, just put "including WoT CGs" in the "Other" box

14:54:06 [McCool]

mk: and say something simple about the WoT CG relationships

14:54:29 [kaz]

kaz: that's my suggestion as well

14:54:35 [kaz]

i/that's/scribenick: kaz/

14:54:39 [kaz]

scribenick: McCool

14:54:41 [McCool]

mk: ok, deleting "entry point" line

14:54:44 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

14:54:46 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

14:54:53 [McCool]

mm: need to do some repair, remove "In particular, "

14:56:04 [McCool]

mk: will also put back in the opening sentence from the old text

14:56:14 [McCool]

mk: now need to add a sentence about the WoT CG

14:57:53 [McCool]

mm: How about "The WoT IG will work with the WoT CG to capture new use case and requirements."

14:58:44 [Ege]

q+

14:58:45 [kaz]

q+

14:59:39 [McCool]

ege: in relationship documents, there is also outreach

14:59:52 [McCool]

... the IG can link to resources from other groups

15:00:22 [McCool]

mm: "Plugfests, testing, and outreach."

15:00:23 [McCool]

ege: sure

15:00:27 [kaz]

ack e

15:01:06 [kaz]

ack k

15:01:09 [McCool]

kaz: also, make it plural...

15:01:38 [kaz]

s/plural.../plural to include WoT-JP CG as well :)/

15:01:39 [McCool]

mk: ok shall we merge

15:02:15 [McCool]

mm: think we should...

15:02:19 [McCool]

mk: (merge)

15:02:34 [kaz]

q+

15:02:43 [McCool]

... people should review the new version, make comments, hopefully we should have a resolution in the next main call

15:02:50 [kaz]

ack k

15:02:51 [McCool]

kaz: also need to update figure

15:03:00 [McCool]

mk: I will update the figure also

15:03:50 [McCool]

mk: adjourn

15:03:57 [kaz]

rrsagent, draft minutes

15:03:58 [RRSAgent]

I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz

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