13:05:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot
13:05:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-irc
13:05:51 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG/IG
13:06:00 <kaz> chair: McCool, Koster
13:06:39 <dezell> dezell has joined #wot
13:06:49 <dezell> present+ David_Ezell
13:06:50 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, David_Ezell, Ege_Korkan, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato
13:06:57 <kaz> present+ Mahda_Noura
13:07:17 <matsuda> matsuda has joined #wot
13:07:19 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
13:07:55 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot
13:08:04 <kaz> topic: Guests, IE
13:08:21 <kaz> mm: asking the IE applicant about his possible presentation
13:08:26 <kaz> ... but have not got response yet
13:08:59 <kaz> topic: Minutes
13:09:02 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/24-wot-minutes.html Jan-24
13:10:06 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
13:11:11 <kaz> typos fixed
13:11:11 <kaz> approved
13:11:21 <kaz> topic: Notices
13:11:23 <kaz> none
13:11:41 <kaz> q+
13:11:50 <kaz> ack k
13:12:33 <kaz> mm: could move (some of) the meetups/events to here in the future
13:12:49 <kaz> topic: Wiki organization
13:13:03 <kaz> mm: still working on action items and collaborations
13:13:12 <kaz> topic: Meeting schedule changes
13:13:27 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Holidays_and_Upcoming_Events holidays/events
13:13:44 <kaz> no additional changes
13:14:08 <kaz> topic: Publication schedule
13:14:18 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md
13:14:26 <kaz> mm: created a PR to update it
13:14:34 <kaz> ... expecting Sebastian's update also
13:15:33 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1173 wot PR 1173 - Update schedule.md
13:15:55 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/708207f15209f54dcdb5a771681707fc5ec6b468/planning/schedule.md rendered MD
13:16:20 <kaz> to be updated/maintained
13:16:28 <kaz> q+
13:17:12 <kaz> kaz: we need to keep updating it based on the actual progress
13:17:14 <kaz> mm: right
13:17:24 <kaz> topic: Publications
13:17:24 <kaz> none
13:17:29 <kaz> topic: Resources
13:17:34 <kaz> mm: ongoing discussion
13:17:46 <kaz> ... e.g., on Thursday during the TD slot 2 call
13:17:47 <Ege> brb
13:17:51 <kaz> s/brb//
13:18:16 <kaz> ... unfortunately, can't make it this week (Wed/Thu) or next week (Wed)
13:18:37 <Ege> q+
13:18:38 <kaz> ... could discuss it again on next Wed as part of the WG policy discussion
13:18:42 <kaz> q-
13:18:43 <mlagally> mlagally has joined #wot
13:18:53 <kaz> ... or during the TD slot 2 call on Thursday
13:18:59 <kaz> ek: both slots are fine
13:19:04 <mlagally> zakim, who is on the call?
13:19:04 <Zakim> Present: David_Ezell, Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Tetsushi_Matsuda, Kunihiko_Toumura, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura
13:19:26 <kaz> ack k
13:19:36 <kaz> mm: wondering how much time to be used
13:19:40 <kaz> ek: 30 mins?
13:20:02 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster, Tomoaki_Mizushima
13:20:23 <kaz> mm: we need to clarify our policy for resource management too
13:21:14 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#31_January_2024
13:21:20 <kaz> topic: Meetups
13:21:26 <kaz> subtopic: WoT CG
13:21:45 <kaz> ek: had a tutorial
13:22:02 <kaz> ... updated PR 139 also
13:22:17 <kaz> ... around the results from the previous meetup
13:22:25 <kaz> ... slides also
13:22:35 <kaz> present+ Michael_Lagally
13:22:48 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/dafab839-0eba-46f2-89b1-634539577b9b/
13:22:51 <kaz> ... next meetup on Feb 15
13:23:02 <kaz> ... about medical equipments
13:23:07 <kaz> q+
13:23:11 <kaz> ack e
13:23:23 <kaz> ... also will welcome Ben Francis after that
13:23:32 <mlagally> q+
13:23:41 <kaz> ... two more planned
13:24:23 <kaz> ml: which company?
13:24:37 <kaz> ek: opensource project organized by some university
13:24:49 <kaz> ack ml
13:25:27 <kaz> kaz: please think about possible use case description based on those presentations :)
13:25:31 <kaz> ek: yeah
13:25:40 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
13:25:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:25:45 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:26:13 <McCool> q?
13:26:14 <kaz> q?
13:26:16 <kaz> ack k
13:26:22 <kaz> q+ ml
13:27:20 <kaz> ml: btw, I found some problem about the wiki
13:27:55 <kaz> i/btw/topic: Wiki issue/
13:28:08 <kaz> (detail to be clarified)
13:28:22 <kaz> topic: Meetups - revisited
13:28:34 <kaz> subtopic: WoT-JP CG
13:28:43 <mlagally> s#wiki#wiki page at: https://www.w3.org/WoT/activities/meetings/#
13:29:03 <kaz> tm: planning to hold a seminar on "Web-based Smart Cities" on Feb-2
13:29:33 <kaz> ... also planning to hold another seminar on "WoT Security" on Mar-8
13:29:37 <kaz> mm: any links?
13:30:21 <kaz> -> https://wot-jp-cg.connpass.com/event/307891/ Web-based Smart Cities Seminar
13:30:53 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:30:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:32:15 <kaz> subtopic: Nordic CG
13:32:18 <kaz> no updates
13:32:25 <kaz> subtopic: Others
13:32:44 <kaz> ek: Global Summit for Node.js on Feb 21
13:32:51 <kaz> ... also HiveMQ Community Event
13:33:01 <kaz> s/Event/Event on March 26
13:33:07 <kaz> s/March/Mar/
13:33:19 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:33:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:33:33 <dape> dape has joined #wot
13:33:40 <kaz> ... first one requires participation fee
13:33:46 <kaz> ... second one is free
13:33:54 <kaz> ... videos will be available
13:33:58 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:33:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
13:34:08 <kaz> mm: Ege, do you have presentations ready?
13:34:14 <kaz> ek: not yet
13:34:17 <kaz> ... thinking about live coding
13:34:41 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
13:34:58 <kaz> topic: Liaisons, Collaborations
13:35:07 <kaz> mm: moved the content to a sub page
13:35:21 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf/Liaisons Liaisons sub page
13:35:30 <kaz> mm: need to be updated
13:36:11 <kaz> ... also could request to review documents, e.g., to IRTF T2TRG
13:36:42 <Ege> q+
13:36:47 <kaz> ack ml
13:36:59 <kaz> ... should update it
13:38:18 <kaz> ... Kaz, as the official W3C liaison, you might want to add the link from this wiki page to the W3C official liaison table
13:38:21 <kaz> kaz: ok
13:39:05 <kaz> mm: will continue to work on Collaborations section and Actions section to make them separate sub pages
13:39:15 <kaz> q?
13:40:09 <kaz> ek: ASHRAE is listed as "Possible"
13:40:14 <kaz> ... what about BACnet?
13:40:24 <kaz> q+
13:40:27 <kaz> ack e
13:40:42 <kaz> ... BACnet is a trademark of ASHRAE. right?
13:41:12 <kaz> mjk: it's just a working group within ASHRAE
13:41:38 <kaz> mm: (fixes those 2 lines into one: ASHRAE (BACnet)
13:42:12 <kaz> s/)/))/
13:42:29 <kaz> topic: TF reports
13:42:47 <kaz> mm: some of the TFs are skipped this week
13:42:53 <kaz> subtopic: Scripting
13:42:59 <kaz> dp: missed the first part
13:43:13 <kaz> ... collecting issues to be solved first
13:43:19 <kaz> ... and discussing how to proceed
13:43:27 <kaz> subtopic: Marketing
13:43:42 <kaz> ek: Mastodon is now nicely integrated
13:43:58 <kaz> ... accessible link based on W3C requirements
13:44:05 <kaz> ... keep Mastodon account
13:44:27 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/WoT/
13:44:45 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
13:44:57 <kaz> s|WoT/|WoT/ WoT Marketing page|
13:45:26 <kaz> mm: (shows the marketing page including the Mastodon instance)
13:45:34 <kaz> subtopic: Use Cases
13:45:47 <kaz> tm: held a call today
13:45:54 <kaz> ... myself proposed a basic workflow
13:45:59 <kaz> ... and approved
13:46:17 <kaz> ... then started concrete discussion
13:46:41 <kaz> ... create GitHub Issues based on the feedback from the previous call
13:46:59 <kaz> ... then discussed GitHub Issues, e.g., Functional vs Technical
13:47:07 <kaz> ... will continue the discussion
13:47:11 <kaz> subtopic: TD/Binding
13:47:27 <kaz> ek: identified 150 issues
13:47:49 <kaz> ... 4-5 people already working on
13:48:03 <kaz> ... process improvement collaboratively done with the Use Cases T
13:48:07 <kaz> s/T/TF/
13:48:12 <kaz> q+
13:48:28 <kaz> kaz: also the discussion around resource management :)
13:48:30 <kaz> ek: right
13:48:31 <kaz> ack k
13:48:34 <mlagally> q+
13:48:42 <kaz> mm: will continue the discussion next week again
13:48:47 <kaz> ack ml
13:49:00 <kaz> ml: what about the Profile TF?
13:49:11 <kaz> i/what about/subtopic: Profile TF/
13:49:25 <kaz> ... getting a volunteer for the moderator
13:49:35 <kaz> mm: good question
13:49:57 <kaz> ... ot select a new TF leader means
13:50:00 <kaz> s/ot/to/
13:50:22 <kaz> s/leader means/leader, we should send a call-for-nominations/
13:50:29 <kaz> ... and then can accept a volunteer
13:51:00 <kaz> ... Luca already has volunteered as a moderator
13:51:04 <kaz> lb: yes
13:51:30 <kaz> mm: we still open the door to everybody, and should wait for some more responses too
13:51:31 <kaz> q+
13:51:50 <Ege> +1 to that
13:52:14 <kaz> ml: how to manage the wiki page?
13:52:32 <kaz> mm: should have separate wiki pages one by one, one for Architecture and another for Profile
13:52:36 <kaz> q?
13:53:07 <kaz> ack k
13:53:51 <kaz> kaz: will we send out a reminder about the Call-for-nomination for Profile TF leader?
13:54:12 <kaz> mm: will send out a call-for-resolution
13:55:47 <kaz> ... need to describe that as well within the policy
13:56:07 <kaz> action: McCool to send out a call-for-resolution for the Profile TF moderator
13:56:18 <kaz> topic: AOB?
13:56:22 <kaz> none
13:56:56 <mlagally> Unfortunately I'm not able to attend the next hour
13:57:07 <kaz> [ break till 5min past the hour ]
13:57:21 <kaz> s/Unfortunately I'm not able to attend the next hour//
13:57:28 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:57:29 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:08:42 <kaz> q+
14:09:04 <kaz> ack k
14:09:34 <McCool> scribenick: McCool
14:09:41 <kaz> regrets+ Sebastian
14:10:05 <McCool> mk: have single PR that addresses outstanding issues in background and scope
14:10:22 <McCool> ... look at that first, then look at what else needs to be done in the document
14:10:37 <McCool> ... review and close issues
14:10:44 <Ege> brb
14:10:59 <kaz> i/have single/topic: IG Charter/
14:11:02 <kaz> s/brb//
14:11:03 <McCool> topic: PR #147
14:11:07 <mjk> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/143
14:11:07 <McCool> s/147/143/
14:11:11 <kaz> s/topic:/subtopic:/
14:11:34 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
14:11:52 <kaz> s/143/143 PR 143 - Update wot-ig-2023-draft.html/
14:11:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:11:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:12:23 <McCool> mk: aligned mission statement with WG charter
14:12:42 <McCool> q+
14:14:47 <McCool> mm: worried that we are not reverting text we discussed before; however, I am ok with the update personally
14:15:02 <McCool> ... although note that the IG does not do specifications.
14:15:37 <McCool> ... although ok because it does not reference IG activities, but "the standards"
14:15:39 <kaz> q+
14:15:51 <kaz> ack mc
14:16:07 <McCool> mk: right, about standards, and just want to align with WG mission
14:16:27 <McCool> kaz: ok to be aligned, but need to differentiate IG from WG
14:16:38 <McCool> ... IG is to help WG by doing this and that
14:19:01 <McCool> mm: maybe add some paragraph breaks?
14:19:12 <McCool> mk: looks like there should be three paragraphs
14:23:34 <kaz> q?
14:23:36 <kaz> ack k
14:24:08 <McCool> mk: ok - adds two paragraph breaks
14:24:46 <kaz> -> https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/c0efdec1fa13845a76294336971afa269dcc063d/wot-ig-2023-draft.html GitHub HTML preview for PR 143
14:24:53 <McCool> mm: looks good to me
14:25:31 <kaz> q+
14:25:37 <McCool> mk: also changed the dates to april to march due to the extension
14:25:45 <mjk> q?
14:26:14 <McCool> kaz: no need to worry about dates, will be updated after AC review
14:26:17 <kaz> ack k
14:26:40 <McCool> mk: also updated motivation and background
14:27:28 <McCool> ... to align with WG charter, which also updated past/future tenses, etc.
14:27:42 <McCool> ... replace some text with that from the WG charter
14:28:00 <McCool> ... also moved some links
14:28:09 <McCool> mk: (shows rendered version)
14:28:30 <kaz> s|https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://raw.githubusercontent.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/c0efdec1fa13845a76294336971afa269dcc063d/wot-ig-2023-draft.html|https://htmlpreview.github.io/?https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/bb4c24bc5672d81dfcb256bca767ba24cb3821bd/wot-ig-2023-draft.html|
14:28:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:28:35 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:29:43 <McCool> mk: also don't reference all docs, just Arch and TD as starting points
14:29:50 <McCool> mm: for the record, I'm ok with that.
14:30:24 <mjk> q?
14:30:37 <McCool> mk: also define use case and requirements as the priority
14:30:40 <kaz> q+
14:30:47 <McCool> mm: agree that is a good priority and good to state
14:32:36 <McCool> mm: small grammar issue, "between" is not necessary
14:32:41 <McCool> mk: (fixed)
14:33:35 <McCool> mk: update on scope section, limited to four points; three main ones
14:34:23 <McCool> ... support the WG, organize and run test events, and develop use cases and requirements; also oversee marketing TF
14:34:37 <kaz> i|update|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/0a00e0d0a02263db52e5218f83911ee537dbc423/wot-ig-2023-draft.html updated rendered results
14:34:58 <Ege> q+
14:35:04 <kaz> ack k
14:35:11 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:35:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:35:36 <McCool> mk: was wondering about the relationship image - but missing in rendering
14:35:46 <McCool> mm: need to use github.io to see image...
14:36:34 <McCool> mk: also removed some text about reaching out and collaborating, since that seems more like a WG thing
14:38:18 <kaz> i|also|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/main/images/wot-ig-2019-relationship.png relationship image 2019|
14:38:26 <kaz> q+
14:38:52 <McCool> mm: in the past the IG served an "experimental" role, e.g. part of the plugfest, but we could also do this as part of the UC process
14:39:09 <McCool> ... better to do that than propose random new features without a motivating use case
14:39:22 <mjk> q?
14:39:31 <McCool> ege: two comments
14:39:45 <McCool> ... first, entry point to standardization;
14:39:57 <McCool> ... could also see the CG as the entry point
14:40:32 <McCool> ... e.g. if they want to submit a use case; can keep it as is, but not really what we are doing at the moment
14:40:53 <McCool> ... in particular, can take use cases from non-members
14:41:22 <McCool> mk: word entry point is where there is too much overlap
14:41:39 <McCool> ... but CG is a little further away from "standardization"
14:41:55 <McCool> ... see CG as an alternative way to participate
14:42:29 <McCool> ege: still feel someone outside reading will be confused about roles, e.g. submit a use case first, or join the CG first?
14:42:58 <McCool> ege: second point, IG does not really get topics submitted to it from the WG
14:43:05 <McCool> ... is this about Marketing?
14:43:32 <McCool> mk: one example, requirements already exist for TD being routed back; and yes, Marketing is another example
14:43:55 <McCool> ... we do have joint meetings generally, except for special topics
14:44:47 <McCool> ... when I say the IG will consider new topics, I mean that kind of interaction.
14:44:58 <McCool> ... but we could make that more specific or take it out.
14:45:00 <McCool> q+
14:45:05 <McCool> ack ege
14:45:22 <McCool> mk: maybe put it in a separate relationship section.
14:45:52 <McCool> mk: anyway, two point: entry points, and topic feedback - both about defining relationship.
14:46:01 <McCool> ege: second point, some examples would be ok.
14:46:11 <mjk> q?
14:46:27 <McCool> kaz: put link for the figure above
14:46:45 <McCool> ... figure from 2019 - probably needs update as well
14:47:00 <McCool> ... for example, does not mention CG, only WG and IG
14:47:17 <Mizushima> Mizushima has joined #wot
14:48:07 <McCool> ... could add CGs under "Other W3C Groups"
14:48:30 <McCool> mk: there are multiple CGs however
14:49:15 <McCool> kaz: my original suggestion was putting CGs explicitly here, but feel we should wrap up with the simpler option, under "other"
14:49:33 <McCool> ... but would still be good to clarify relationships
14:50:03 <McCool> mk: we could certainly clarify relationships in the docs
14:50:14 <McCool> ... but need more time to think about it
14:50:36 <mjk> q?
14:50:45 <McCool> mk: prefer to put CGs explicitly in the diagram
14:51:04 <McCool> kaz: clarifying relationships is most important
14:51:06 <kaz> ack k
14:51:56 <kaz> s/important/important, and we can remove the sentence about "entry point"./
14:52:02 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:52:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:52:29 <kaz> q?
14:52:31 <kaz> ack mc
14:52:48 <McCool> mm: agree we can remove entry point; suggest use of plural "WoT CGs" since we have more than one
14:53:11 <McCool> ... suggest keeping diagram simple, just put "including WoT CGs" in the "Other" box
14:54:06 <McCool> mk: and say something simple about the WoT CG relationships
14:54:29 <kaz> kaz: that's my suggestion as well
14:54:35 <kaz> i/that's/scribenick: kaz/
14:54:39 <kaz> scribenick: McCool
14:54:41 <McCool> mk: ok, deleting "entry point" line
14:54:44 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:54:46 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
14:54:53 <McCool> mm: need to do some repair, remove "In particular, "
14:56:04 <McCool> mk: will also put back in the opening sentence from the old text
14:56:14 <McCool> mk: now need to add a sentence about the WoT CG
14:57:53 <McCool> mm: How about "The WoT IG will work with the WoT CG to capture new use case and requirements."
14:58:44 <Ege> q+
14:58:45 <kaz> q+
14:59:39 <McCool> ege: in relationship documents, there is also outreach
14:59:52 <McCool> ... the IG can link to resources from other groups
15:00:22 <McCool> mm: "Plugfests, testing, and outreach."
15:00:23 <McCool> ege: sure
15:00:27 <kaz> ack e
15:01:06 <kaz> ack k
15:01:09 <McCool> kaz: also, make it plural...
15:01:38 <kaz> s/plural.../plural to include WoT-JP CG as well :)/
15:01:39 <McCool> mk: ok shall we merge
15:02:15 <McCool> mm: think we should...
15:02:19 <McCool> mk: (merge)
15:02:34 <kaz> q+
15:02:43 <McCool> ... people should review the new version, make comments, hopefully we should have a resolution in the next main call
15:02:50 <kaz> ack k
15:02:51 <McCool> kaz: also need to update figure
15:03:00 <McCool> mk: I will update the figure also
15:03:50 <McCool> mk: adjourn
15:03:57 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:03:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-wot-minutes.html kaz
17:03:22 <TallTed> TallTed has joined #wot
17:16:40 <bkardell_> bkardell_ has joined #wot
17:28:12 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot