16:01:14 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #pointerevents
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16:01:24 <smaug> present+
16:01:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+
16:01:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> present+ flackr
16:02:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Meeting: PEWG
16:02:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Chair: Patrick H. Lauke
16:02:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6246bc85-4dae-43a8-a50c-9bc5a0829585/20240131T110000/
16:02:30 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Scribe: Patrick H. Lauke
16:02:32 <flackr> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353
16:02:37 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ScribeNick: Patrick_H_Lauke
16:03:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: this is a feature that MS has been incubating for a while, now is the time for us to decide if we want to go for it
16:03:49 <mustaq> present+
16:04:15 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Clarify mousedown event target if the preceding pointerdown event listener removes the target #492 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/492
16:04:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> associated PR https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/494
16:05:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: I believe Olli you thumbsed up the PR
16:05:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: as Olli mentions, there are handwavy aspects, but it may be ok to merge at this stage
16:06:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: i've used the underscore for `user_event`, because as programmer i didn't feel good about using a space
16:06:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: are we using underscore or space then?
16:06:35 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Flackr: i think i prefer space
16:07:21 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: DOM spec uses camelCase
16:09:00 <smaug> https://infra.spec.whatwg.org/#variables
16:09:28 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: I can switch to camelCase, then we can merge
16:09:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to change user_event to camelCase, then we merge
16:10:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: so will this close the issue #492 for sure?
16:11:43 <mustaq> https://github.com/w3c/uievents/issues/359
16:12:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: while there are other related aspects like the above, I think this will let us close #492
16:12:35 <mustaq> So I think my PR can close the PE issue
16:12:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Note/discussion: Consider splitting [UI Events] spec into smaller specifications
16:12:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> #369 https://github.com/w3c/uievents/issues/369
16:14:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: this is more a "be aware of this" and comment on it if you have strong feelings about it
16:15:41 <mustaq> Gary's proposal for 5.3 and 5.4: wheel events should also be part of pointer events spec?
16:15:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> [discussion on should mouse and pointer events merge somehow to avoid the whole PE extends mouse events]
16:16:11 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Make pointerenter definition similar to pointerover w.r.t. pointerdown from a touch pointer #497 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/497
16:18:03 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: pointerdown definition looks correct, but pointerover event doesn't
16:18:21 <mustaq> Look at the diffs in 4.2.1 and 4.2.2
16:18:55 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: pointerdown special case is missing
16:19:15 <mustaq> in the first sentences.
16:19:49 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: ah, it's just different order. I'll close the issue
16:19:56 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Mustaq to close issue
16:20:22 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Update https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/blob/master/pointerevents/META.yml #498 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/498
16:20:40 <Patrick_H_Lauke> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/498
16:21:31 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: a tool was using this to assign things to Rick/Navid, should we update this
16:22:42 <mustaq> Looks like the file is manually updated: https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/commits/master/pointerevents/META.yml
16:23:07 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Olli to update the file in WPT repo
16:23:20 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Meta-issue: update WPT to cover Pointer Events Level 3 #445 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/445
16:24:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: didn't get chance for new issues. worked on issues for interop 2023
16:24:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: no progress from my side either. hoping to land the PR discussed earlier
16:25:57 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i think some WPTs had to be backed out recently because they broke interop2023 scoring
16:26:29 <smaug> https://github.com/web-platform-tests/wpt/pull/44251
16:27:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: i think unless i'm looking at wrong link, doesn't look bad where we are https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=is%3Aclosed+label%3Aneeds-wpt+
16:27:54 <smaug> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues?q=label%3Aneeds-wpt+
16:30:50 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Add logical/abstract values for touch-action #496 https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/pull/496
16:32:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: we had an issue opened ages ago about this, and as I was pondering this recently, wanted to make a PR just to get a sense
16:35:54 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: just to check that the writing mode etc that matters is the one defined on the element that has the touch-action, and NOT the writing mode specifically inside the container that is being interacted with
16:36:24 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: that's what i would imagine ... what counts is the writing mode on the element that has the touch-action, regardless of writing modes of child elements
16:36:59 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: similarly, we probably want to explicitly mention that if writing mode changes while a gesture/action is already in progress, then that's ignored - same as how touch-action changing in the course of a gesture/action is ignored
16:38:45 <Patrick_H_Lauke> TOPIC: Multi-pen support and persistent pointerId #353
16:38:58 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: do you know if MS has been implementing that, or is it windows only
16:39:35 <mustaq> https://github.com/w3c/pointerevents/issues/353
16:39:48 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: i reviewed many of the patches of the implementation, we landed on approach that does take the underlying device id from other platforms (linux, chromeOS, not confident on mac)
16:40:18 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: proposal that intel brought was chromeOS only, IIRC
16:41:17 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: supports identifying device on linux and chromeOS in a slightly different way than windows - but the concept of the device producing the event giving you a consistent ID is something that can be implemented on different platforms
16:43:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: they've been trying to come resolution to this in a couple of years. so far i can tell the device id ... there's two reasonable answers: making something LIKE pointerId but not available at the start of the detection; or adding some additional event when the deviceId becomes known for a given pointer. don't like the latter, have preference towards the approach they landed on. extension of pointerId. strictly speaking[CUT]
16:43:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> y do is supported by PE...
16:44:25 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Mustaq: the concept of info only known on down is not unique though, right?
16:44:41 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: similar to intel's proposal about "this stylus wants to draw in a particular colour"
16:45:16 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: maybe way to merge this idea with the intel one is to define some sort of structure that can be expanded beyond just deviceId, to also include info like preferred colour etc
16:46:10 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: if we can come up with something now, MS would likely be happy to change this in their implementation without us ending up locked in with a deviceId on the top-level events properties
16:46:51 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: Intel had "penCustomisationDetails" (sp?) which is too specific. but maybe deviceInfo or something like that
16:47:32 <Patrick_H_Lauke> PAtrick: flashback to the device capabilities https://wicg.github.io/input-device-capabilities/
16:48:42 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: let's give them a prop that they can hang their deviceId from
16:48:42 <mustaq> https://github.com/WICG/input-device-capabilities
16:49:04 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Olli: i'd love THEM to come up with something
16:49:39 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Rob: I can take it to them - this is our concern, we'd like to put this behind a more flexible structure, that could then also accommodate other properties like Intel's proposed one
16:50:43 <Patrick_H_Lauke> ACTION: Rob to speak to Microsoft about using a more generalised structure for the deviceId info
16:53:02 <Patrick_H_Lauke> Patrick: once Mustaq's PR is ready, I'll merge it, then proceed with finally sending this out for wide review (after refreshing my memory on which groups I need to contact etc). Thank you all, catch you in 2 weeks' time
16:53:08 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, set logs world-visible
16:53:14 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, generate minutes
16:53:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-minutes.html Patrick_H_Lauke
17:27:13 <Patrick_H_Lauke> rrsagent, bye
17:27:13 <RRSAgent> I see 4 open action items saved in https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-actions.rdf :
17:27:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to change user_event to camelCase, then we merge [1]
17:27:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-irc#T16-09-50
17:27:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Mustaq to close issue [2]
17:27:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-irc#T16-19-56
17:27:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Olli to update the file in WPT repo [3]
17:27:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-irc#T16-23-07
17:27:13 <RRSAgent> ACTION: Rob to speak to Microsoft about using a more generalised structure for the deviceId info [4]
17:27:13 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2024/01/31-pointerevents-irc#T16-50-43