Meeting minutes
<JJ> Jeanne is also present
<Carolina_Crespo> present
New participants
JJ: we're trying to change direction for this group to be more focused on apps, primarily Android and iOS
JJ: will probably separate into two meetings, one US friendly and one EU friendly, and try and also make it work for Asia, and find a time where I can make these meetings too
<JJ> Karen: works at Salesforce, excited to work on accessibility guidelines for mobile
JJ: I work for Abra, my own app consultancy, also share knowledge via the Appt foundation
JJ: I joined this TF ~2 years ago, mostly because I was interested in how WCAG applies to apps because of legislation, first in NL, but then found it was similar in Europe and US
JJ: would be nice if we could make this become part of new legislation
JJ: now WCAG2ICT is used in the European standard… I think it is the best out there for non websites, but we can probably do better and not just focus on website but specifically on Android and iOS
JJ: so the focus of this taskforce to map WCAG to apps… may also work on our own guidance in the future
JJ: probably want to focus on publishing a working group note
JJ: with the goal of improving mobile accessibility
JJ: it's probably ideal to make a standard specifically for apps, but in the meantime legislation embeds WCAG for apps, so that's something we have to work with
<JJ> Carolina: works at TPGi, senior accessibility engineer, performing audits
<JJ> Jeanne: also works at TPGi, works on accessibility since 2018, worked on native mobile accessibility
<JJ> Hidde: here on behalf of Logius, Dutch government department, recently started working on accessibility standards for them.
JJ: how is everyone currently working on accessibility of mobile apps?
karen: I work on a11y of native apps at Salesforce…we don't currently have standards but am working on that
<JJ> Karen: reach out of your own bubble, see how others are doing guidance
JJ: do you also do audits?
karen: mostly consulting with teams
karen: but have my own LLC to provide consultancy and audits
JJ: how about you Carolina?
Carolina_Crespo: we do audits, also looking for different opinions to what we are doing
Jeanne: same here… nice to talk to people in other organisations, to try and get some consistency
Jeanne: consistency is so important… with mobile we're all over the place, especially with updates
<JJ> Karen: it's the wild west of accessibility
<JJ> hdv: Mostly interested in the legal / standards part of mobile accessibility
JJ: I'm interested in dealing with mixed content, like an app that loads a website
JJ: lots of apps have a mix of native controls, web views and PDFs
Jeanne: absolutely… have to deal with difference between native and web views all the time
JJ: I feel it would make sense to split guidance between iOS and Android
JJ: as there's differences between what we can test and what's technically possible on specific platforms
JJ: and then there's cross platform apps and apps built with web frameworks
JJ: with some frameworks it seems almost impossible to build WCAG compliant UIs
Which assistive tech do you use to audit apps?
Jeanne: I use keyboard
JJ: we use hardware keyboards, but also voice control and switch controls… some available on iOS some on Android
Carolina_Crespo: also resizing text
JJ: can be tricky to audit text on iOS that uses dynamic sizing
JJ: seems every company has their own way of testing these kinds of things
JJ: apps also get different audit results depending on which firm audited
JJ: one thing I'd also like to focus on in this task force is WCAG-EM… it's based on websites and samples and URLs… there's no official interpretation of that for apps
JJ: my goal would be to do the mapping but also look at testing
JJ: not sure if that is one document or multiple
JJ: I feel using screenshots are helpful in app audits because we can't show code or codepens like we can in website audits
JJ: I also wonder how we can do this in the W3C format
Slack channel
JJ: I made a private channel at the Appt foundation
JJ: there's also a W3C community Slack… maybe it would make more sense to work from there, but they don't have a full plan, so no more than 90 days of history
hdv: I think a lot of the work would happen on GitHub, IRC, calls like this and mailing lists anyway, so 90 days limit might not be too much of an issue
updating resources
JJ: goal here is to have up to date descriptions on W3C pages
JJ: there's a page with old content on the old Mobile taskforce
JJ: I expect these will be updated by February with new content
<JJ> List of changes: https://
<JJ> JJ: URL's to be updated:
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> Hidde: URL's prefixed /WAI/GL need to be updated by W3C web admin
<JJ> Hidde: URL's prefixed with /groups are on Github (partly)
JJ: our repository will be `w3c/matf `
JJ: is everyone familiar with Markdown?
JJ: plan would be to have one file per Success Criterion
Respec
<JJ> Hidde: Respec generator w3c/
karen: the way ACT work has a great GitHub workflow
karen: not sure what tool they're using but it works great
JJ: will also look at how AGWG are using Discussions on GitHub
JJ: seems like GitHub and Markdown can be our tools of choice, and probably Google Drive too
JJ: there is a Google Drive we use to gather information
<JJ> JJ: https://
<JJ> JJ: Shortlink = https://
timing of the meeting
JJ: can you write preferences into IRC?
<karen> I'm Eastern Time Zone in the US.
Jeanne: my time to avoid are Wednesday mornings in Central, US
<Carolina_Crespo> I am Eastern Time Zone in Canada
<karen> Karen: Mornings before 11 EST. All day Thursday
<JJ> Jeanne: Try to avoid Wednesday morning in Central US timezone
<karen> Karen - best times before 11 EST, all day thursday
my best time would be ET after 3pm
<Carolina_Crespo> Mornings before 11 except Fridays. Monday 3pm to 4pm works
<JJ> JJ: 9 AM - 5 PM in GMT+1 timezone, Mon-Thur, no specific best time
<karen> Karen: once we have a schedule, we can schedule other meetings around it
JJ: I'll pick a time… there's hopefully 5 or so more people joining in February
JJ: 'homework': if you have any resources that you use, please email those to me
karen: is this a Task Force or Community Group?
JJ: they have to be a member of AGWG
JJ: a couple of people have applied to be Invited Experts
JJ: would be nice to get wider feedback
karen: do we have a representation of people with disabilities in this group?
JJ: not sure if we do at the moment
JJ: would also like to collaborate with COGA, APA and WCAG3
Jeanne: I'm also in COGA
hdv: should probably also work together ACT TF