14:03:53 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:03:57 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-irc
14:04:42 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 2
14:06:06 <kaz> chair: Ege, Koster
14:06:10 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf
14:06:22 <kaz> s/https:/agenda: https:/
14:06:45 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Michael_McCool, Mahda_Noura, Kunihiko_Toumura
14:06:46 <kaz> q+
14:06:57 <mahda-noura> ScribeNick: mahda-noura
14:07:14 <mahda-noura> Chair: Ege Korkan
14:07:32 <kaz> ack k
14:07:34 <cris_> cris_ has joined #wot-td
14:07:36 <mahda-noura> Topic: Minutes Review
14:07:43 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-wot-td-minutes.html
14:07:43 <kaz> present+ Michael_Koster Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:07:59 <kaz> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-wot-td-minutes.html|-> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-wot-td-minutes.html Jan-18|
14:08:08 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:08:16 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:08:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:08:21 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:08:28 <mahda-noura> ege: miniutes are approved
14:08:28 <mahda-noura> Topic: Binding Templates
14:08:33 <kaz> i/Minutes/topic: Agenda/
14:08:35 <dape> dape has joined #wot-td
14:08:35 <mahda-noura> ege: there has not been a PR
14:09:10 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Registry
14:09:26 <kaz> i/Minutes/kaz: suggest we concentrate on the versioning discussion given both the Discovery TF participants and the Scripting API TF participants are here to discuss that today specifically./
14:09:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:09:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:09:52 <mahda-noura> ege: is drafting a PR about the use case, story and requirements for registries
14:10:10 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/egekorkan-registry-req/registry-analysis/Readme.md
14:10:23 <kaz> i/there has not been/subtopic: Merged editorial PRs/
14:10:43 <mahda-noura> ege: The use case for having a registry
14:11:08 <McCool> McCool has joined #wot-td
14:11:43 <mahda-noura> ...based on the charter description, Ege added a potential and a draft of a user story and use case
14:12:17 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:12:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:12:33 <mahda-noura> ...also Ege defined a set of requirements, inspired from Jan's analysis
14:12:44 <McCool> q+
14:13:05 <kaz> i/suggest we/scribenick: kaz/
14:13:14 <kaz> i/minutes are/scribenick: mahda-noura/
14:13:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:13:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:13:24 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:13:31 <mahda-noura> mm: bindings as being mandatory, how to deal with that
14:13:40 <mjk> q?
14:14:08 <kaz> q+
14:14:41 <mahda-noura> ege: it is same for TD, if you have a TD binding you don't have to implement a binding, but profiles are not like that
14:14:58 <Ege> ack m
14:15:32 <mahda-noura> kaz: I would like to expect you Ege to add some description and story about why we need to define registry seperately from the specification
14:16:11 <mahda-noura> ege: for me the only way would be to publish a working group note
14:16:33 <mahda-noura> kaz: I am not objecting at all, we plan to describe the relation and the need
14:16:50 <mahda-noura> ege: each requirement will result in rules for the registry
14:17:32 <mahda-noura> ...I think the first requirement is important, a binding should be written by people or organization that are not WG members
14:18:09 <mahda-noura> ...the other part is about associating to a TD binding, the association has to be done by the TD task force
14:18:11 <kaz> s/we plan to describe the relation and the need/just wanted to confirm we're planning to describe the rationale and the need later./
14:19:18 <mahda-noura> ...we should have rules how the process is happening, and should outlive the WG
14:19:18 <mahda-noura> ...the next point is about us managing it, we should make sure there are no two bindings for the same protocol
14:19:38 <mahda-noura> ...if it should to a protocol should map to at least one WoT operation
14:20:01 <mjk> q?
14:20:08 <kaz> ack k
14:20:21 <mahda-noura> ...the last point is that it the serialization format should be described
14:20:25 <mahda-noura> ege: any questions about this?
14:20:28 <mahda-noura> (none)
14:20:47 <mahda-noura> ege: I will proceed with the last part, which are the rules of a registry
14:20:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:20:58 <mjk> q+
14:21:19 <kaz> i/minutes are app/scribenick: mahda-noura/
14:21:20 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:21:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:21:30 <mahda-noura> mjk: this is a great start, the word we want to use is deprecation, a typo in the document
14:21:55 <mahda-noura> ...we maybe want to extend the user story to motivate it, but I think it's a great start
14:21:55 <kaz> present+ Daniel_Peintner
14:22:10 <Ege> q?
14:22:12 <Ege> ack m
14:22:15 <mahda-noura> ege: I can extend the overall motivation section
14:23:47 <mahda-noura> ...merged this PR
14:24:13 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Reviews of the individual bindings
14:25:38 <kaz> q+
14:26:11 <mahda-noura> mjk: are we going to add the registry in the use case agenda for that TF, do we need to involve the use case TF more? This is some actual content we could start working on
14:26:51 <kaz> ack k
14:26:53 <mahda-noura> kaz: regarding the use case, we should clarify what level of use case discussion should be done and where
14:27:35 <kaz> s/subtopic: Reviews of the individual bindings//
14:27:35 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:28:12 <McCool> q+
14:28:12 <mahda-noura> Topic: TD
14:28:15 <mahda-noura> subtopic: Versioning Resources
14:28:15 <mahda-noura> mm: I have read the current documents and would like to summarize my recent thoughts
14:28:25 <mahda-noura> ...we need to distinguish the beta versions
14:28:27 <cris_> +1
14:28:50 <mahda-noura> ...we need to also version all resources, like validations, etc.,
14:28:53 <kaz> i|I have|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/issues/1166 wot Issue 1166 - [Policy Proposal] Versioning Resources (McCool's proposal)|
14:29:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:29:03 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:29:22 <mahda-noura> ...to make things easy we should map our directories to the url structure
14:30:13 <Ege> q+
14:30:15 <mjk> q+
14:30:16 <mahda-noura> ...the final issue is synonyms or generic versions, only to have have version URL's to make our lives easier
14:30:33 <Ege> ack mc
14:30:41 <mahda-noura> ...we should make all URL's versioned
14:30:57 <mjk> ack m
14:31:42 <mahda-noura> ege: one point regarding matching versions, something that is a breaking change in the schema may not be a breaking change in the ontology
14:31:52 <kaz> q+
14:32:09 <mahda-noura> mm: we can version each file, and then figure out which version would go together
14:32:20 <mahda-noura> ...we can use version directories and version sets
14:32:28 <mahda-noura> ege: could you explain that
14:33:23 <mahda-noura> mm: github is smart in linking things together and mainting things and on the downside caching is inefficient
14:33:46 <mahda-noura> ...I don't know whether there is a solution for this downside, but I think everything else gets complicated
14:34:40 <mjk> q?
14:34:53 <mahda-noura> ...we should think of some way that redirection can be used to point to an older version, I think the directory gets versions instead of the single files
14:35:08 <kaz> q?
14:36:00 <mahda-noura> mm: we need to look into some semantic best practices for versioning
14:36:13 <mahda-noura> q+
14:36:46 <McCool> q+
14:37:05 <mahda-noura> kaz: we need to define what we mean by semantic versioning and then deal with technical part
14:37:32 <mahda-noura> mm: we should write a user story
14:37:41 <kaz> ack e
14:37:41 <mahda-noura> kaz: we should clarify our approach first
14:37:42 <kaz> ack k
14:38:19 <mahda-noura> mm: the main reason why I am concerned with versioning is not to break the systems of current users
14:39:36 <cris_> q+
14:39:55 <kaz> s/we should/we should once suspend this level of detailed technical proposals, and should think about our requirements based on some concrete user scenario. For example, we can start that discussion right away during this call now, but should/
14:40:01 <kaz> q?
14:40:07 <kaz> ack ma
14:41:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:42:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:42:06 <kaz> ack mc
14:42:06 <McCool> ack m
14:42:34 <mahda-noura> mn: besides showing the diff, we need to also communicate the change and why the change was made and communicate it to the users
14:42:53 <mahda-noura> ...also what is considered a minor change, and minor or a patch changes
14:43:10 <mahda-noura> .mm: we have a change log in the discovery
14:44:02 <kaz> s/.mm:/mm:/
14:44:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:44:11 <mahda-noura> cris: about the changelog, the change could be automatically generated and I guess we can leverage on that
14:44:19 <McCool> q+
14:44:21 <kaz> s/miniutes/minutes/
14:44:30 <kaz> i/minutes are/scribenick: mahda-noura/
14:44:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:44:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:45:09 <mjk> q?
14:45:09 <mahda-noura> cris: there are developers who try out the specs so there is no version just for us
14:45:09 <McCool> +1 on using github to automate things, e.g. changelogs
14:45:26 <mahda-noura> cris: we have to derive some guidelines
14:45:44 <Ege> q?
14:45:47 <Ege> ack c
14:46:16 <mjk> q+
14:46:32 <mahda-noura> mm: I think we should see if we can leverage git to do this for us, can we use tags to generate the URL
14:46:42 <McCool> ack mcc
14:47:05 <kaz> s/kaz: we need to define what we mean by semantic versioning and then deal with technical part/kaz: I've started to think we need to clarify our requirements for versioning based on some concrete user scenario. For example, we need to define what we mean by "Semantic Versioning", and then could think about the details on how to fulfill the requirements./
14:47:07 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:47:17 <mahda-noura> mjk: maybe we should use a docstring app in some of the commit messages to generate the changelog
14:47:25 <kaz> q+
14:47:29 <kaz> ack mjk
14:49:01 <McCool> re rendering changelog: see https://github.com/w3c/wot-discovery/pull/536
14:49:20 <mahda-noura> kaz: today's discussion is very useful, we have been getting nice and useful opinions, however we should consolidate our need in a seperate document for this issue
14:49:32 <mahda-noura> ege: I would make one, totally agree
14:51:03 <mahda-noura> ... there are options other than manually updating specific files and redirections
14:51:32 <mahda-noura> ege: I would not create a policy for now, we need more investigation
14:52:06 <mahda-noura> ege: do you want to do this discussion in the TD call?
14:52:33 <mahda-noura> mm: We could do this again on Thursday, I won't be available on the TD slot, we should try adding comments offline
14:52:34 <McCool> https://www.w3.org/TR/prov-primer/
14:53:33 <McCool> PROV is one possible approach to versioning RDF, but may be overkill for us - we generally need to do more research here
14:53:55 <mahda-noura> Topic: Use Case Discussion
14:54:09 <mahda-noura> ege: the whole idea is to find promising use cases from issues
14:54:27 <mahda-noura> ...we want to label the issues with a label "needs use case"
14:55:06 <mahda-noura> ...the second part is we evaluate them in respect to the charter
14:55:17 <mahda-noura> ...priority is on business use cases and not theoretical ones
14:55:42 <mahda-noura> ...there can be other task forces, we need to label them correctly
14:56:29 <mahda-noura> ...we can add a "relevance unclear" label if we are not unsure about the relevance for the charter
14:56:29 <mjk> q?
14:56:38 <kaz> q-
14:57:10 <mahda-noura> ...we have currently 268 issues and splitting it to the members
14:57:14 <kaz> q+
14:57:44 <mahda-noura> ...we can take a snapshot of a page in a point in time
14:58:09 <mahda-noura> ege: any comments, or whether if someone cannot do this work?
14:58:54 <mahda-noura> kaz: I don't disagree with this procedure, but I just want to suggest that we should work with the use case TF and which part of this long work should be handelled by us and which ones by the use case TF
14:59:07 <mahda-noura> ege: once we are done with this, the use case TF will start
14:59:20 <mahda-noura> kaz: what kind of templates are going to be tranferred to this TF
14:59:40 <mahda-noura> ege: once we have the labels, the next task would be to use the template
14:59:54 <cris_> +1
15:00:01 <mahda-noura> ege: if nobody is objecting this, I can send a bunch of emails, is this fine for everyone?
15:00:01 <kaz> q+
15:00:03 <mahda-noura> +1
15:00:13 <McCool> ntd - ttyl
15:00:32 <mahda-noura> kaz: once the use cases TF procedure also clarified at some point, this proedure can also be updated based on their feedback
15:01:20 <mahda-noura> ege: does anybody prefer TD issues or binding issues?
15:01:25 <mahda-noura> cris: I do not mind
15:02:17 <kaz> i|does|ege: right|
15:02:26 <kaz> [adjourned]
15:02:30 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz