16:42:54 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
16:42:58 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-irc
16:44:34 <TallTed> meeting: RDF-Star WG biweekly meeting
16:44:39 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:44:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:44:44 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:55:31 <ktk> TallTed: tnx for preparing
16:56:04 <ktk> Regrets: Ora, az, olaf, gkellog
16:56:19 <ktk> Chair: ktk
16:57:32 <tl> tl has joined #rdf-star
16:58:49 <ktk> p+
16:58:58 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:59:13 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2024/02/01-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:59:23 <AndyS> AndyS has joined #rdf-star
16:59:52 <TallTed> I wonder if we shouldn't include/inject the TF meetings into the previous/next meeting statements?
17:00:18 <AndyS> present+
17:00:21 <pchampin> TallTed, good point
17:00:32 <TallTed> present+
17:00:54 <gtw> present+
17:01:02 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
17:01:02 <eBremer> eBremer has joined #rdf-star
17:01:15 <pfps> present+
17:02:13 <pchampin> present+
17:02:51 <Tpt> present+
17:03:02 <niklasl> present+
17:03:09 <gtw> scribe: gtw
17:03:27 <tl> present+
17:03:35 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:03:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:03:59 <pchampin> zakim, open agendum 1
17:03:59 <Zakim> I see nothing on the agenda
17:04:14 <TallTed> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20240125T120000/
17:04:14 <agendabot> clear agenda
17:04:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two metings: [1]
17:04:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion [2]
17:04:14 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at [3]
17:04:15 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at [4]
17:04:17 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at [5]
17:04:20 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
17:04:29 <TallTed> Zakim, open item 1
17:04:29 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two metings: -- taken up [from 1 via agendabot]
17:04:29 <pchampin> zakim, open agendum 1
17:04:31 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two metings: -- taken up [from 1 via agendabot]
17:04:43 <ktk> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/11-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:04:44 <gtw> ktk: two meeting minutes to approve.
17:04:46 <pfps> minutes look fine
17:04:57 <eBremer_> eBremer_ has joined #rdf-star
17:05:05 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 2024-01-11
17:05:13 <pchampin> +1
17:05:15 <niklasl> +1
17:05:15 <pfps> +1
17:05:18 <ktk> +1
17:05:18 <tl> +1
17:05:22 <TallTed> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/01/11-rdf-star-minutes.html|subtopic:https://www.w3.org/2024/01/11-rdf-star-minutes.html|
17:05:23 <gtw> +1
17:05:34 <TallTed> +1
17:05:49 <eBremer_> +1
17:05:49 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 2024-01-11
17:05:51 <fsasaki> fsasaki has joined #rdf-star
17:05:55 <eBremer_> present+
17:05:56 <fsasaki> present+
17:05:56 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes 2024-01-11
17:06:08 <ktk> https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-rdf-star-minutes.html
17:06:23 <gtw> ktk: gkellogg sent regrets. PA can you add that?
17:06:26 <pfps> these minutes look fine also
17:06:26 <gtw> ... otherwise looks fine.
17:06:31 <TallTed> s|https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-rdf-star-minutes.html|subtopic: https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-rdf-star-minutes.html|
17:06:39 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:06:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:06:46 <ktk> PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 2024-01-18
17:06:46 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
17:06:47 <pchampin> +1
17:06:50 <doerthe> present+
17:06:51 <tl> +1
17:06:51 <niklasl> +1
17:06:52 <gtw> +1
17:06:53 <ktk> +1
17:06:54 <pfps> +1
17:07:17 <Tpt> +1
17:07:18 <eBremer_> +1
17:07:24 <TallTed> s/agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two metings: -- taken up [from 1 via agendabot]//
17:07:25 <fsasaki> +1
17:07:25 <TallTed> +1
17:07:32 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:07:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:07:39 <ktk> RESOLUTION: Approve minutes 2024-01-18
17:07:52 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:07:52 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Proposal for next week's discussion -- taken up [from 2]
17:08:14 <gtw> ktk: another long meeting next week. impression from the list - most discussed topics are the syntactic sugar proposal.
17:08:26 <gtw> ... big part of discussion is well-formed or not-well-formed.
17:08:30 <gtw> ... any comments?
17:08:30 <AndyS> q+
17:09:02 <gtw> AndyS: two weeks ago we had proposal about what subject was. some thigns weren't carrieid forward from meeting. need to be clearer.
17:09:25 <gtw> ... if it's just which is the largest volume on the mailing list, i can see how you came to conclusion.
17:09:34 <gtw> ... as pchampin's summary makeks clear, there are other things in-flight.
17:09:46 <gtw> ... suggest how we work across proposals.
17:09:57 <gtw> ... defining which issues we wish to address.
17:10:09 <gtw> ... presuming which issues the WG is seeing as will-address or not.
17:10:18 <TallTed> pchampin, chairs -- please correct `meting` to `meeting` in agendas, going forward
17:10:21 <gtw> ktk: can you point to the one from pchampin ?
17:10:35 <niklasl> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2024Jan/0001.html
17:10:50 <gtw> AndyS: titled "Summary of the Options"
17:11:00 <gtw> pchampin: I probably sent to the CG mailing list.
17:11:11 <gtw> ktk: could you post to the main list again?
17:11:16 <gtw> pchampin: yes
17:11:20 <pchampin> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2024Jan/0001.html
17:11:37 <gtw> AndyS: I've done the same thing with mine.
17:11:50 <ktk> q=
17:11:51 <gtw> ... (atomic reification write-up.)
17:11:52 <ktk> q?
17:11:57 <ktk> ack AndyS
17:12:12 <gtw> ktk: any feedback to AndyS?
17:12:25 <gtw> AndyS: two of proposals are not involving well-formed directly.
17:12:40 <gtw> ktk: your proposal is to go through this and try to see how much concensus we can find?
17:13:00 <gtw> AndyS: I think we have to do it. Otherwise only talking about one area. Implicitly would be saying other areas are not of interest.
17:13:20 <pchampin> q+
17:13:20 <TallTed> s/thigns/things
17:13:22 <gtw> ktk: ok. good proposal. any other comments?
17:13:27 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:13:53 <gtw> pchampin: apologies for confusion. goal of this email was to try and have a sensitive view on how approaches differ.
17:14:32 <AndyS> "Atomic reification" https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-rdf-star/2024Jan/0000.html
17:14:42 <gtw> ... last friday there was confusion about what we were meant to discuss.
17:14:57 <gtw> ... goal is to provide something concrete.
17:15:05 <gtw> ... tried my best to collate different sources with links.
17:15:14 <gtw> ... also to have everythign in once place. easy to compare.
17:15:22 <ktk> q?
17:15:53 <gtw> TallTed: AndyS you sent yours to the list, too?
17:15:56 <gtw> AndyS: I'm about to.
17:16:48 <gtw> ktk: let's take this as base for discussion.
17:16:50 <TallTed> s/the list/the WG list/
17:16:57 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:16:57 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -- taken up [from 3]
17:17:13 <pchampin> q+
17:17:14 <gtw> ktk: we have open actions
17:17:56 <gtw> pchampin: I checked that every issue and PR ends up in the dashboard.
17:18:01 <gtw> ... this is proven complete.
17:18:13 <ktk> zakim, next item
17:18:13 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, ktk
17:18:17 <ktk> q?
17:18:21 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:18:23 <ktk> zakim, next item
17:18:23 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -- taken up [from 4]
17:18:33 <pfps> q+
17:18:58 <gtw> ktk: olaf is not here.
17:19:08 <gtw> ... no update on JSON PR.
17:19:16 <gtw> ... what is "minicore" AndyS?
17:19:23 <gtw> ... #102
17:19:24 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/102 -> Pull Request 102 Create miniCore.md (by rat10)
17:19:41 <gtw> pfps: he should be able to create the document. not sure why this is still sitting there.
17:19:58 <ktk> q?
17:19:59 <gtw> pchampin: we're just editors. only editors have the merge privilige.
17:20:05 <gtw> AndyS: is that related to the wiki as well?
17:20:17 <tl> q+
17:20:17 <gtw> pchampin: wiki permissions are different.
17:20:30 <gtw> ... I can change permissions. Give merge permissions to all participants.
17:20:40 <gtw> ... given use we have for docs folder, probably would make sense.
17:20:43 <gtw> ktk: only for this repo?
17:20:44 <gtw> pchampin: yes.
17:20:51 <gtw> ktk: no problem with that.
17:20:57 <gtw> pchampin: in the mean time, I can merge PRs.
17:21:03 <ktk> q?
17:21:15 <ktk> ack tl
17:21:15 <gtw> tl: I don't know if approach makes sense. it was 2 weeks ago.
17:21:25 <gtw> ... we should try to organize discussion around repo.
17:21:37 <gtw> ... I got a lot of editoral comments.
17:21:56 <gtw> ... I think I'm going to start writing mails again. Didn't have feeling that this worked out.
17:22:06 <gtw> ... I don't care if this gets merged into docs folder. It's already outdated.
17:22:23 <gtw> tl: you can merge it or leave it.
17:22:36 <gtw> pfps: #45 or 3 on the list out of 5. that's a technical change to semantics.
17:22:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/45 -> CLOSED Pull Request 45 put em-dashes where they belong in rdf-terminology.md (by TallTed) [documentation]
17:22:49 <gtw> ... could go in except that when I look at it, TallTed has requested changes. I can't see what the changes are.
17:23:08 <ktk> ack pfps
17:23:12 <pchampin> s|#45|w3c/rdf-semantics#45
17:23:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/45 -> Pull Request 45 add entailment rule for datatypes (by pfps) [spec:bug] [test:needs tests]
17:23:25 <gtw> pfps: try to do it sometime and take yourself off. I can merge even without that, but would prefer to wait for you.
17:23:35 <gtw> TallTed: it's waiting for approval after changes.
17:23:47 <ktk> q?
17:23:51 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:23:51 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Issue Triage, available at -- taken up [from 5]
17:24:15 <gtw> ktk: last time we said we wanted to add one flag. not sure much happened.
17:24:27 <gtw> ... any comments on any issues?
17:24:45 <AndyS> q+
17:25:02 <ktk> ack AndyS
17:25:14 <gtw> AndyS: I think it's difficult to have discussion until we decide what it's based upon.
17:25:23 <gtw> pfps: ok taking off need for discussion for now.
17:25:35 <gtw> ... I'll remove the label.
17:26:04 <gtw> pfps: one thing related to triage. I did the #45 PR. it has an associated issue.
17:26:04 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/45 -> CLOSED Pull Request 45 put em-dashes where they belong in rdf-terminology.md (by TallTed) [documentation]
17:26:11 <pchampin> s|#45|w3c/rdf-semantics#45
17:26:12 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/issues/45 -> Pull Request 45 add entailment rule for datatypes (by pfps) [spec:bug] [test:needs tests]
17:26:13 <gtw> ... how are we going to do tests?
17:26:22 <gtw> ... I put a needstest label on the issue which will stay open.
17:26:32 <pchampin> q+
17:26:49 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:26:55 <gtw> pchampin: That's probably on me. I don't think this label exists at the moment.
17:27:07 <gtw> pfps: it's test:needstest.
17:27:47 <ktk> Zakim, next item
17:27:47 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
17:28:01 <pchampin> q+
17:28:07 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:28:29 <gtw> pchampin: we talked about changing the permissions on the rdf WG repo.
17:28:42 <gtw> ... do we need a fuller decision? or do I just add an action?
17:28:54 <gtw> ... how do we make a decision on that?
17:29:00 <gtw> ktk: we can do a proposal.
17:29:05 <gtw> AndyS: or chair's discretion.
17:29:12 <gtw> pfps: chair's discretion sounds good.
17:30:03 <gtw> pchampin: realized we are roughly at 75% of our chartered time. need to start thinking about rechartering.
17:30:16 <gtw> ... another item in our discussion at some point. not too controversial.
17:30:23 <gtw> ... will discuss with charis and come back to the group.
17:30:36 <gtw> ktk: when is the official end?
17:30:39 <gtw> ... august?
17:30:42 <gtw> pchampin: something like that.
17:30:53 <ktk> q?
17:30:59 <niklasl> q+
17:31:02 <eBremer_> s/charis/chairs/
17:31:15 <niklasl> https://hackmd.io/@niklasl/HJ3IudCdp
17:31:20 <gtw> niklasl: motivating examples (pchampin suggested a couple of weeks ago)
17:31:33 <gtw> ... I could add them to the wiki. Not sure if they are relevant anymore.
17:31:43 <gtw> ... A lot of use-cases. Perhaps that's good enough.
17:31:49 <ktk> ack niklasl
17:32:13 <gtw> ktk: details for TPAC are set this year. might make sense to meet again.
17:32:20 <gtw> ... in the US.
17:32:35 <gtw> ... Anaheim, CA. Sept 23–27, 2024.
17:32:39 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/events/tpac/2024/tpac-2024-hybrid-meeting/
17:32:54 <gtw> ... probably a different combination than last year being more US-focused.
17:33:03 <gtw> ... I might consider it.
17:33:10 <gtw> pchampin: I will probably go.
17:33:47 <gtw> pfps: I expect meeting will be across a very big parking lot from disneyland.
17:34:08 <gtw> TallTed: meeting should be on teacups.
17:34:14 <ktk> q?
17:34:29 <gtw> TallTed: good if people can review open issues.
17:34:34 <gtw> ... that are unlabeled.
17:34:41 <gtw> ... add some labeling. we can do triage next time.
17:34:52 <gtw> pfps: I was looking at those. Some are from outside the WG. Not sure what to do about them.
17:35:01 <pchampin> q+ to suggest we should assign them to WG participants
17:35:01 <gtw> TallTed: reply to them in some way.
17:35:10 <ktk> ack pchampin
17:35:10 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to suggest we should assign them to WG participants
17:35:27 <gtw> pchampin: good point. issues from people outside WG. one thing we could do is assign to group participants.
17:35:52 <gtw> ... look at your issues. might be something we want to consider having asignees for.
17:36:19 <gtw> pchampin: of course, it's probably no quick way to filter issues by who they are from.
17:36:27 <gtw> pfps: only 102. not a long time to go through them.
17:36:51 <gtw> ktk: long meeting next week.
17:37:15 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:37:16 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:37:23 <TallTed> s/reply to them in some way/we have to reply to them in some way (addressed this way, not going to address, etc.)/
17:37:23 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
17:37:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/25-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
17:37:32 <eBremer_> eBremer_ has left #rdf-star
17:41:58 <pchampin> RRSAgent, bye
17:41:58 <RRSAgent> I see no action items
<pchampin> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/45 -> CLOSED Pull Request 45 put em-dashes where they belong in rdf-terminology.md (by TallTed) [documentation]||g
<pchampin> regrets+ enrico