14:00:02 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
14:00:06 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2024/01/24-apa-irc
14:00:06 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:00:07 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
14:00:26 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
14:00:36 <janina> Date: 24 Jan 2024
14:00:41 <janina> Chair:  Janina
14:00:41 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
14:00:41 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
14:00:44 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
14:00:47 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
14:00:50 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
14:00:52 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
14:00:55 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
14:00:57 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
14:01:00 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
14:01:02 <janina> agenda+ be done
14:01:15 <janina>  /join #rqtf
14:01:29 <janina> present+
14:02:28 <janina> present+
14:04:45 <janina> scribe+
14:13:50 <Roy> Roy has joined #apa
14:36:32 <Roy> Roy has joined #apa
14:48:39 <Roy> Roy has joined #apa
14:55:19 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:55:47 <janina> present+
14:56:04 <janina> regrets: Leandro, Niklaus
14:56:39 <janina> regrets+ Alisa
14:57:20 <Fazio> Fazio has joined #apa
14:58:19 <Dr_Keith> Dr_Keith has joined #apa
14:58:30 <Dr_Keith> present+
14:59:02 <Roy> present+
14:59:12 <Fazio> present+
14:59:41 <uxjennifer> uxjennifer has joined #apa
14:59:45 <uxjennifer> present+
15:00:35 <PaulG> present+
15:01:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #APA
15:01:57 <janina> zakim, pick a victim
15:01:57 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose janina
15:02:08 <janina> zakim, pick a victim
15:02:08 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose janina
15:02:13 <janina> zakim, pick a victim
15:02:13 <Zakim> Not knowing who is chairing or who scribed recently, I propose janina
15:03:01 <mike_beganyi> mike_beganyi has joined #apa
15:03:08 <mike_beganyi> present+
15:03:23 <janina> zakim, who's here?
15:03:23 <Zakim> Present: janina, Dr_Keith, Roy, Fazio, uxjennifer, PaulG, mike_beganyi
15:03:25 <Zakim> On IRC I see mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger, uxjennifer, Dr_Keith, Fazio, PaulG, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, gb, matrix638, AnthonySpencer, sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao,
15:03:25 <Zakim> ... gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:03:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:03:46 <nehaj> nehaj has joined #apa
15:03:53 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:03:53 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:03:55 <nigel> nigel has joined #apa
15:04:00 <Nichole> Nichole has joined #APA
15:04:01 <IrfanAli> IrfanAli has joined #apa
15:04:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
15:04:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, who is here?
15:04:37 <Zakim> Present: janina, Dr_Keith, Roy, Fazio, uxjennifer, PaulG, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger
15:04:39 <Zakim> On IRC I see IrfanAli, Nichole, nigel, nehaj, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger, uxjennifer, Dr_Keith, Fazio, PaulG, Roy, RRSAgent, Zakim, janina, gb, matrix638, AnthonySpencer,
15:04:39 <Zakim> ... sonicscrewdriver, imlostlmao, gonzu_15, M2cshkpcgrp, joraboi445, SintayewGashaw, slightlyoff, Rachael, cwilso, tink, ada, jcraig, agendabot
15:04:42 <nehaj> present+
15:05:02 <Lionel_Wolberger> IrfanAli: There won't be an update from pronunciation today
15:05:13 <IrfanAli> present+
15:05:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: No update from CSS planned for today, either
15:05:27 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:05:27 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
15:06:30 <PaulG> Roy: no new charters this week
15:06:33 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:06:34 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
15:06:47 <PaulG> Roy: no new comments this week
15:07:05 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:07:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 was just opened, PaulG
15:07:12 <PaulG> zakim, close this item
15:07:12 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:07:13 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:07:13 <Zakim> 4. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]
15:07:18 <Roy> subtopic: Bitstring Status List v1.0
15:07:19 <Roy> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/70
15:07:19 <Roy> - spec: https://w3c.github.io/vc-bitstring-status-list/
15:07:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/70 -> Issue 70 Bitstring Status List v1.0 2024-01-21 > 2024-02-13 (by msporny) [LC] [REVIEW REQUESTED] [pending]
15:07:21 <PaulG> zakim, take up item 4
15:07:21 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:07:39 <PaulG> Roy: verifiable credentials has a request
15:08:05 <Roy> https://w3c.github.io/vc-bitstring-status-list/#accessibility-considerations
15:08:42 <PaulG> Roy: there are some accessibility considerations
15:09:07 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: they are being strategic in citing a previous set of considerations
15:09:28 <PaulG> janina: inheritied concerns are fine as long as they are cited
15:10:46 <Fazio> I'm concerned it targets an exclusive user group
15:10:53 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: when you take a data-first approach, it can be confusing. For example, a date without a timezone.
15:11:01 <Fazio> not inclusive of broader disabilities
15:12:08 <PaulG> Fazio: I think we're not thinking broad enough with the data-first approach
15:13:02 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: you're correct. This is more screen reader user centric and images might improve accessibility for some folks
15:13:22 <PaulG> Fazio: it's common enough
15:14:10 <PaulG> janina: I just had a conversation about adding descriptions to sonic events for D/deaf users
15:14:45 <PaulG> ...we can have multiple descriptions for different audiences.
15:15:36 <Fazio> Maur
15:15:40 <PaulG> ...we will be updating the MAUR at some point to generally update this requirement
15:16:06 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: I would love to see crypto wallet accessibility requirements
15:16:22 <Fazio> Maur (Media Accessibility User Requirements)
15:17:31 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: so, we'll revisit the considerations in the data model because it's being inherited from a prolific group
15:18:20 <PaulG> Dr_Keith: just how far down the rabbit hole do we go with data construction? Is there something we can refer to for general guidance?
15:19:08 <PaulG> janina: what are the key points we want developers to be mindful of as they develop and implement their technology so if they need help they'll know where to get it
15:19:13 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
15:19:15 <Fredrik> present+
15:19:38 <PaulG> Dr_Keith: is there any general W3C document on how data should be structured for accessibility?
15:19:50 <PaulG> janina: no, there's not a document like that?
15:20:13 <PaulG> janina: that's an opportunity
15:20:54 <PaulG> Dr_Keith: I'll put some thought into that
15:21:37 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: Are we talking about data guidelines? Or when a spec just specifies data, we dont put guidance, we are interested in the human computer interface
15:21:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... machine to machine is out of our scope. 'we don't really care'
15:22:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... for example, PNG was omitting description. Your eventual target is a human but even machines will benefit from the description
15:23:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... when there is a final human to consume it, there should be capacity to accomodate different modalities
15:23:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we need to focus on the HCI
15:24:59 <Fazio> even macjine to machine data gets reviewed by humans for QA. Think LLM
15:25:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Sounds like we should look carefully for machine to machine data enrichments that can also benefit downstream human consumption
15:25:31 <Fazio> sorry for my typos
15:25:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> PaulG: I am emphasizing that this is a way to rally support from people who think they are just dealing in data without any need for human interaction
15:26:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we can remind them that LLMs and other algorithms also benefit from these types of enrichments
15:26:45 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... so you cannot go wrong by adding a slot for description text. if it is left empty most of the time, then why do you care?
15:27:18 <janina> Our *AUR notes are listed here:
15:27:20 <janina> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/task-forces/research-questions/wiki/Main_Page
15:27:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and if eventually, in some scenario not anticipated by the original authors, it is indeed exposed to humans, then the field may come into use
15:28:07 <Fazio> its even mor important in beginning
15:28:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> s/mor important/more important
15:29:26 <PaulG> janina: cross-referencing the aspects of wicg and maur that have some of this could be helpful
15:29:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> Fazio: Even if you are creating machine to machine tech, it is created by humans
15:29:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and those humans also include people with disabilities
15:30:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... there is always a human interaction component
15:30:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... take autonomous driving for example
15:30:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... it is humans who are involved when errors are escalated
15:30:40 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we should keep these humans in mind, especially in early stage technologies
15:33:27 <PaulG> janina: the resolution is to agree to inheriting pointers and we'll update the considerations section at some point
15:33:51 <Roy> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/70
15:33:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/70 -> Issue 70 Bitstring Status List v1.0 2024-01-21 > 2024-02-13 (by msporny) [LC] [REVIEW REQUESTED] [pending]
15:34:42 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:34:42 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
15:34:51 <Roy> subtopic: Accessible Rich Internet Applications (WAI-ARIA) 1.3
15:34:52 <Roy> - tracker: https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Accessible_Rich_Internet_Applications_(WAI-ARIA)_1.3
15:34:52 <Roy> - spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.3/
15:36:01 <PaulG> janina: the most important thing to look at is what this adds to 1.1 and 1.2
15:37:26 <PaulG> https://www.w3.org/TR/wai-aria-1.3/#substantive-changes-since-aria-1-2
15:38:06 <PaulG> zakim, take up next item
15:38:06 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:38:06 <PaulG> no updates
15:38:06 <PaulG> zakim, close this item
15:38:06 <Zakim> agendum 6 closed
15:38:06 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:38:06 <Zakim> 7. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
15:38:06 <PaulG> zakim, take up item 7
15:38:06 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
15:38:24 <PaulG> zakim, close this item
15:38:24 <Zakim> agendum 7 closed
15:38:25 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:38:25 <Zakim> 8. Task Force & Deliverables Updates [from janina]
15:38:27 <PaulG> zakim, take up item 8
15:38:28 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
15:40:13 <PaulG> IrfanAli: we're waiting for group review before wider review
15:42:12 <PaulG> janina: in COGA there's a tendency for scope creep. For instance spellcheck is out of scope in collaborative tools
15:42:47 <PaulG> ...we're going to try to make it more clear where those boundaries are
15:43:15 <Fazio> Please try out the Accessibility Maturity Model: https://w3c.github.io/maturity-model/ in your organization and provide feedback
15:43:29 <PaulG> subtopic: maturity model
15:43:48 <Fazio> Please try out the Accessibility Maturity Model: https://w3c.github.io/maturity-model/ in your organization and provide feedback
15:44:09 <PaulG> Fazio: toward the end of the year we published an update. We've had some organizations try it out and provide some feedback.
15:44:41 <PaulG> ...we rely on this feedback to continue to develop the model. If you can take it and use it in your organizations and let us know how it goes.
15:44:56 <PaulG> ...it will help us continue this work
15:45:37 <PaulG> janina: the goals is to move this to an APA note
15:47:29 <PaulG> janina: Benetech has implemented the model but it has taken a lot of time. We may need to help organizations with less commitment get started.
15:47:56 <PaulG> ...and how to integrate with 3rd party tools and processes
15:48:31 <PaulG> Fazio: Inte, Benetech, and Dr Keith have implemented the model and given feedback
15:48:41 <PaulG> zakim, next item
15:48:41 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
15:49:06 <PaulG> s/Inte Intel
15:49:24 <PaulG> s/Inte/Intel
15:50:03 <PaulG> zakim, next item
15:50:04 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:50:06 <PaulG> zakim, end meeting
15:50:06 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, Dr_Keith, Roy, Fazio, uxjennifer, PaulG, mike_beganyi, Lionel_Wolberger, nehaj, IrfanAli, Fredrik
15:50:08 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:50:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/24-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:50:17 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, PaulG; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:50:17 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
15:59:36 <janina> rrsagent, bye
15:59:36 <RRSAgent> I see no action items