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13:56:01 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:56:02 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:56:17 <kathy> agenda+ ACT Standup
13:56:30 <kathy> agenda+ Upcoming joint TF/CG meeting (February 8th?)
13:56:41 <kathy> agenda+ Subjective applicability
13:56:51 <kathy> agenda+ Video element visual-only content has audio track alternative
13:57:04 <kathy> agenda+ Video element visual-only content has transcript
13:57:15 <kathy> agena+ Video element visual-only content is media alternative for text
13:57:45 <kathy> agenda?
13:57:57 <kathy> agenda+ Video element visual-only content is media alternative for text
13:58:06 <kathy> present+
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14:01:54 <Wilco> agenda?
14:02:05 <Helen> present+
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14:02:37 <Helen> scribe+
14:02:58 <catherine> present+
14:03:07 <Wilco> present+
14:03:16 <trevor> present+
14:03:21 <Helen> Zakim, take up next
14:03:21 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from kathy]
14:04:04 <Helen> Wilco: I have done a lot of work and surveys
14:04:16 <Helen> Catherine: I did the surveys too.
14:04:46 <Helen> Daniel: Not much as reviewing the talk we submitted to the CT and planning
14:05:15 <Helen> Trevor: Not too much - just small updates to the subjective applicability
14:05:27 <Helen> Tom: I had PTO but did the surveys
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14:06:06 <Helen> Helen: Not much done
14:06:19 <Helen> Kathy: I added some comments to the subjective PR
14:06:48 <Helen> Todd: I did a huge audit that has taken up a lot of time so not able to cover much
14:06:58 <Helen> Zakim, take up next
14:06:58 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Upcoming joint TF/CG meeting (February 8th?) -- taken up [from kathy]
14:08:00 <Helen> Wilco: I was talking with the lovely CG chairs with the first working draft of 1.1 being done, and want a joint meeting to discuss where we are and where are we going?
14:08:28 <Helen> ... On Feb 8th in place of this call but an hour later as we join the CG meeting instead
14:08:44 <Helen> ... I will get Kathy to remind you all!
14:09:19 <Helen> Daniel: I will make it a joint meeting to share
14:09:22 <Helen> Zakim, take up next
14:09:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Subjective applicability -- taken up [from kathy]
14:09:44 <Helen> Trevor: Shares screen and talks through the updates
14:09:44 <thbrunet> present+
14:09:47 <trevor> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/555/files
14:10:44 <Helen> Trevor: I plan to run through Kathy's comments - line 410.
14:11:46 <Helen> ... oppositely - any opnions on changing this to conversely?
14:11:53 <Helen> Wilco: I prefer the change
14:12:06 <Helen> Daniel: I prefer the change
14:12:13 <Helen> Trevor: Ok changed
14:12:48 <Helen> ... Kathy - can you explain the comments on line 412 - did my answer help?
14:13:39 <ToddL> present+
14:14:46 <Helen> ... I am marking this as resolved after the chat agreeing it is target size that uses distance
14:15:17 <Helen> ... Line 419 - this adds the word "objective"
14:15:22 <Helen> Wilco: I like it
14:15:27 <Helen> Trevor: Added
14:16:52 <Helen> ... Line 448 - again you are wanting to make the language conform to other examples - by having the expectation there where not in others
14:17:20 <Helen> Kathy: Yes - it deviated from the previous ones and it threw me slightly
14:18:34 <Helen> Trevor: I could remove it from this example - the bottom one must have it, but this one - I am not sure
14:18:50 <Helen> Kathy: I'm 50/50 too
14:19:23 <Helen> Helen: Leave it in as better to not remove it
14:19:46 <Helen> Wilco: I'm not sure
14:20:01 <Helen> Trevor: I will have a think on it later
14:21:25 <Helen> Daniel: I think for 412 we need some calculation in here to get the distance to stop it being subjective
14:23:09 <Helen> Wilco: It was not meant to be a major example - and it is meant to be a non-HTML example, maybe we change it?
14:23:40 <Helen> Trevor: I think we can vote now
14:23:49 <kathy> +1
14:23:52 <trevor> +1
14:23:53 <ToddL> +1
14:23:55 <thbrunet> +1
14:23:57 <Wilco> +1
14:23:58 <catherine> +1
14:23:58 <Helen> Wilco: +1 if you think it is ready or -1 if you want another run through
14:24:00 <Helen> +1
14:24:31 <Wilco> RESOLUTION: Accept PR 555 with edits for working draft
14:26:04 <Wilco> s/working draft/first public working draft/g
14:26:12 <Helen> Zakim, take up next
14:26:12 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Video element visual-only content has audio track alternative -- taken up [from kathy]
14:26:28 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
14:28:13 <Helen> Wilco: Going through the survey results sheet: https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit?usp=sharing
14:31:35 <trevor> https://html.spec.whatwg.org/#poster-frame
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14:39:58 <Helen> Wilco: we have some cosmetic and some composite rule tracking to complete - Kathy and I will work on it
14:39:59 <Helen> Zakim, take up next
14:39:59 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Video element visual-only content has transcript -- taken up [from kathy]
14:41:41 <Helen> Wilco: Discussing the findings for https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1OSkPFocXk4K3zYLnwS78WLsWO4PvE5yRcsauyefuIUI/edit?usp=sharing
14:44:14 <trevor> scribe: trevor
14:44:21 <trevor> kathy: Update the description to mention being a cartoon or animated
14:45:04 <trevor> wilco: Is this a nice to have or do we need to make this change.
14:45:34 <trevor> trevor: Feel like its more nice to have
14:45:50 <trevor> wilco: Not really an accessibility failure, wouldn't mind leaving it as is.
14:46:31 <trevor> kathy: Would probably not fail but would make the suggestion.
14:46:53 <trevor> wilco: I think we will just leave it for now, if AG wants updates we can do it then
14:47:08 <trevor> ... may also need to explore making the text alternatives clearer.
14:49:05 <trevor> wilco: Issue with the transcipt being both visible and in the accessibility tree. I think it being visible but not in the accessibility tree is a 1.3.1 failure
14:49:52 <dmontalvo> s/transcipt/transcript/
14:49:59 <trevor> Link to issue: https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/issues/1815
14:50:34 <trevor> wilco: CG removed the visibility condition in the issue.
14:51:45 <trevor> kathy: They are asking if the transcript has to be visible. The CG is saying remove that the expectation has to be visible.
14:52:04 <trevor> wilco: What I think should removed is that the transcript has to be in the accessibility tree, not that its visible
14:52:22 <trevor> kathy: This rule is particulary specific about the transcript being visible
14:53:05 <trevor> ... If the video transcript isn't visible on the page, but is available through the accessibility tree. A screen reader user would be able to access the transcript even when its not visible that seems to meet the requirement.
14:53:27 <trevor> ... just like alt text for images that aren't usually visually presented. But it should still be okay.
14:53:49 <trevor> tom: Put a related comment at the bottom of the survey, I would expect a lot of transcripts are going to load in dynamically
14:54:41 <trevor> wilco: There is a bit about the transcript being in the page or linked, which was meant to handle accessing the transcript through some control
14:54:54 <trevor> ... i do agree that its a valid scenario to consider
14:55:21 <trevor> ... Kathy is saying that if the transcript is only available to assistive technologies and there is no button to make it visible, that it would still pass
14:55:33 <trevor> kathy: Yes, and I think that is what issue 1815 is saying
14:56:52 <trevor> helen: What about an audio description transcript
14:58:06 <trevor> wilco: Having a hard time believing this would pass without the transcript being visible.
14:58:46 <trevor> kathy: videos are a sequence of images and we don't require text alternative for image to be visible
14:58:59 <trevor> tom: Transcript might not be the right word here since there is no audio.
14:59:43 <trevor> wilco: Reluctant to make this call without checking in with AG. I get where its coming from, but curious if AG would agree
15:00:21 <trevor> wilco: Kathy to create an issue with AG
15:03:42 <dmontalvo> Chair: Wilco
15:03:46 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, make minutes
15:03:47 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/18-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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