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14:57:21 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF - Slot 1
15:01:46 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Jan_Romann, Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster
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15:02:36 <kaz> present+ Kunihiko_Toumura
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15:04:26 <kaz> scribenick: kaz
15:05:00 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_10.2C_2024
15:05:07 <kaz> topic: Logistics
15:05:15 <kaz> ek: split the agenda into two parts
15:05:42 <kaz> ... you can add topic proposals at "Backlog" section too
15:06:03 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
15:06:07 <kaz> topic: Agenda
15:06:17 <kaz> ek: (goes through the agenda for today)
15:06:28 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#January_10.2C_2024 today's agenda items
15:06:33 <kaz> topic: Minutes
15:06:42 <kaz> -> https://www.w3.org/2023/12/20-wot-td-minutes.html Dec-20
15:06:54 <kaz> ek: (goes through the previous minutes
15:06:55 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
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15:07:10 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
15:07:25 <kaz> approved
15:07:29 <kaz> s/minutes/minutes)
15:07:36 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
15:07:40 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minuts
15:07:40 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'draft minuts', kaz.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:07:46 <kaz> s/rrsagent, draft minuts//
15:07:48 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:07:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:07:59 <kaz> topic: New TD slot
15:08:12 <kaz> ek: 1st slot on Wednesday at 10am Eastern
15:08:21 <kaz> ... 2nd slot on Thursday at 9am Eastern
15:08:41 <kaz> topic: Wiki organization
15:09:09 <kaz> ek: cleaned up the TD wiki as mentioned the other day
15:09:20 <kaz> topic: WoT resources
15:09:36 <kaz> ek: Mahda has started to work on the TM resources
15:09:41 <kaz> mn: still ongoing
15:10:10 <kaz> i/Mahda/subtopic: TM/
15:10:20 <kaz> subtopic: Versioning
15:10:43 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1951 PR 1951 - Versioning of TD resources
15:10:57 <JKRhb> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:10:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-wot-td-minutes.html JKRhb
15:11:30 <kaz> ek: (goes through VERSIONING.md)
15:11:47 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/3122e3825da5511dc86d911a32f6f542f05ce28c/VERSIONING.md renderred version
15:11:56 <kaz> s/renderred/rendered/
15:12:47 <kaz> ... some issue on the style of indentation
15:13:14 <cris__> q+
15:13:19 <kaz> ... "When a use wants", etc., should be part of "Initial thoughts on versioning"
15:13:56 <kaz> ca: not sure about each resource but useful to have release version
15:14:28 <kaz> ... useful for implementers
15:14:55 <kaz> q+
15:14:58 <kaz> ack c
15:15:36 <kaz> ek: Alpha-version for REC release, and sub version for each release?
15:15:39 <mjk> q?
15:15:40 <kaz> ca: yeah
15:15:42 <luca_barbato> q+
15:16:15 <mjk> q+
15:16:45 <cris__> ack c
15:18:09 <kaz> kaz: detailed version management is fine but we need clear policy and procedure for that
15:18:20 <kaz> ... what kind of changes to be identified for what purpose
15:18:24 <kaz> ek: right
15:18:25 <kaz> ack k
15:19:04 <kaz> lb: you can tag any kind of releases
15:19:20 <kaz> ... we can decide, e.g., every month by date and time
15:19:31 <kaz> ... that is a time anchor
15:19:46 <kaz> ... would be enough for implementers
15:20:16 <kaz> ... Git describes some number based on hash as well
15:20:40 <kaz> ... if we want to make some specific version periodically, e.g., monthly
15:21:05 <kaz> ... could put a tag to identify each version
15:21:19 <kaz> ... could use either way
15:21:51 <kaz> ek: so far we don't add any explicit identifier to each version
15:23:37 <Ege> q?
15:23:40 <kaz> ack l
15:23:52 <kaz> mjk: mostly agree
15:24:00 <kaz> ... we do CI tech work flow
15:24:34 <kaz> ... would be better to use explicit versions
15:25:05 <kaz> ... GitHub hash number should be long enough to identify the versions also
15:25:10 <cris__> q+
15:25:38 <luca_barbato> https://git-scm.com/docs/git-describe in case
15:25:54 <kaz> ... we can use date/time instead too
15:26:41 <kaz> ... not sure about the need for periodic release, though
15:26:52 <kaz> ... we need more discussion
15:27:08 <mjk> ack mjk
15:27:46 <kaz> ca: (audio trouble and rejoining...)
15:28:04 <kaz> ek: how to deal with TD versions in a semantic way
15:28:37 <kaz> ca: we're publishing typescript notation
15:28:57 <kaz> ... about a monthly release, some sort of deadline needed
15:29:16 <kaz> ... note that we're handling not only one library
15:29:37 <kaz> ... need to be aware of coding for CD coordination
15:30:02 <kaz> ... thinking about the scripting-api repository
15:30:30 <Ege> https://github.com/json-schema-org/website/issues/197#issuecomment-1883270213
15:30:54 <kaz> ek: would consider versioning for JSON Schema as put above
15:31:13 <kaz> q+
15:31:42 <Ege> ack c
15:32:10 <kaz> ack k
15:32:23 <kaz> ... regarding this PR 1951, I'd merge it
15:32:29 <kaz> kaz: fine to merge it
15:32:45 <kaz> ... but please check the indentation, e.g., tab vs whitespace, later
15:33:07 <kaz> ek: will check the format first
15:33:21 <kaz> subtopic: Static dates
15:33:59 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1940 Issue 1940 - Fixing the Ontology HTML files to static versions
15:34:23 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1952 PR 1952 - Static Ontology HTMLs
15:35:03 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/2019/wot/security
15:35:16 <kaz> ek: the content is correct
15:35:24 <kaz> ... but missing abstract, etc.
15:35:43 <kaz> ... have fixed all the ReSpec errors already
15:36:45 <kaz> ... now we have a sub folder saying "staticFiles"
15:37:11 <kaz> q+
15:38:20 <kaz> kaz: the content is generated based on the TTL files
15:38:33 <kaz> ... and you need to specify the Abstract, etc., manually
15:38:35 <kaz> ... right?
15:39:12 <kaz> ek: yes
15:39:28 <kaz> kaz: technically, we can use ReSpec to provide the HTML content
15:39:40 <kaz> ... but do you want to avoid potential bugs from ReSpec?
15:39:44 <kaz> ek: exactly
15:40:15 <kaz> topic: TD
15:40:22 <kaz> subtopic: TAG reviews
15:40:38 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/tag-review.html tag-review.html
15:41:09 <kaz> ek: not sure how to deal with this...
15:42:00 <kaz> -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/tag-review.html github.io version
15:42:46 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/commit/ff93ff20ce96428b075b141272e803e9f32640d1
15:43:00 <kaz> ek: seems there was no Pullrequest but directly pushed
15:43:19 <kaz> q+
15:44:00 <kaz> ack k
15:44:52 <kaz> kaz: would suggest we keep this kind of obsolete resources as an example for the future wide review for 2.0 spec rather than removing them
15:44:54 <kaz> ek: ok
15:45:03 <kaz> ... would add a README.md to describe them too
15:45:05 <kaz> kaz: nice
15:45:19 <kaz> subtopic: PLANNING.md
15:46:00 <kaz> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1163 wot PR 1163 - Moving Planning.md items
15:46:22 <kaz> q+
15:46:28 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1948
15:46:58 <kaz> s/https/-> https/
15:47:23 <kaz> s/1948/1948 wot-thing-description PR 1948 - Delete PLANNING.md/
15:47:52 <kaz> kaz: so that means simply moving the PLANNING.md content from the wot-thing-description repo to the wot repo. right?
15:47:52 <kaz> ek: right
15:48:34 <kaz> subtopic: Backtracking some additions in TD 1.1:
15:48:58 <kaz> ek: several misleading points
15:49:32 <kaz> ... generic use cases don't really help understand the need and capability of the detail of each feature
15:50:15 <kaz> ... for example, regarding Thing Model
15:50:45 <kaz> ... possible use case: managing a set of instantiations of the same model device
15:50:47 <kaz> q+
15:51:16 <cris__> q+
15:51:23 <kaz> ... requirement: one file to represent a model fo the device
15:52:31 <kaz> kaz: from my viewpoint, "@@@" is rather a requirement for a feature
15:52:48 <kaz> ... and we still need to describe the use case based on users' viewpoint
15:53:11 <kaz> ca: we thought about search for TD as well
15:53:24 <JKRhb> q+
15:53:31 <kaz> ... we had some discussion, I think
15:53:33 <kaz> q-
15:53:37 <kaz> ack c
15:54:15 <kaz> ek: maybe "correlate" rather than "search"?
15:54:19 <kaz> ca: that's fine
15:54:19 <mjk> q+
15:54:54 <kaz> ... could be broken down into 3 parts
15:55:02 <kaz> ek: think we're on the same page
15:55:07 <kaz> ... need more descriptions
15:55:35 <kaz> q?
15:55:36 <kaz> q+
15:55:55 <kaz> ca: "user story" should describe what the users want to do
15:56:15 <kaz> ... "I want to do ABC to achieve XYZ."
15:56:57 <kaz> s/@@@/managing a set of instantiations of the same device/
15:56:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:01 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:57:38 <kaz> ... should describe the user's role as well
15:57:46 <kaz> ek: "as user X, I want to ABC so I can achieve XYZ"
15:57:53 <kaz> mjk: sometimes called s "persona"
15:58:21 <kaz> jr: reuse existing definition too
15:59:10 <luca_barbato> q+
15:59:13 <kaz> ek: (adds another entry for Thing Model description or that)
15:59:37 <kaz> ... extension/submodel in TM
15:59:46 <kaz> ... requirement: reuse of existing definition
15:59:52 <kaz> jr: looks good
16:00:10 <kaz> mjk: how to redefine the semantic models?
16:00:29 <kaz> ... TM gives as ability to work with IoT Schema, etc.
16:00:42 <kaz> ... application model to be consistent with affordance
16:00:56 <kaz> ... I can write up a user story for that
16:01:05 <kaz> ack JK
16:01:07 <kaz> ack mjk
16:01:20 <kaz> ack k
16:01:35 <kaz> kaz: this discussion should be done collaboratively with the Use Cases TF
16:01:37 <kaz> ek: ok
16:01:55 <kaz> lb: one problem of mine with TM is...
16:02:05 <kaz> ... it is a custom template
16:02:27 <kaz> ... we have a situation which TM could be a tentative solution for semantic interoperability
16:02:40 <kaz> ... you can use it to validate a TD
16:03:01 <kaz> ... we can use the TM mechanism to author another possible template language
16:03:26 <kaz> ... validate and consume in some certain scenario
16:04:17 <kaz> ek: think you're basically describing something similar to "managing/representing a set of instantiations of the same model of a device"
16:04:45 <kaz> topic: Tomorrow
16:04:54 <kaz> ek: would like to discuss Binding tomorrow
16:04:56 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:05:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:05:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2024/01/10-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
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