14:44:56 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #i18n
14:45:00 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-irc
14:45:08 <addison> Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
14:45:15 <addison> Chair: Addison Phillips
14:45:24 <agendabot> agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20231214T150000/
14:45:24 <agendabot> clear agenda
14:45:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Agenda Review
14:45:24 <agendabot> agenda+ Action Items
14:45:26 <agendabot> agenda+ Info Share
14:45:28 <agendabot> agenda+ RADAR Review
14:45:30 <agendabot> agenda+ Pending Issue Review
14:45:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Needs Attention issues for WG review (continued)
14:45:35 <agendabot> agenda+ AOB?
14:45:58 <addison> agenda+ fun with [w3c/i18n-activity] rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding
14:46:18 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
14:50:06 <addison> present+ Addison
14:53:25 <addison> agenda+ String-Meta revision
14:54:34 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
15:01:03 <JcK> JcK has joined #i18n
15:01:55 <addison> present+ Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao
15:03:22 <addison> present+ JcK
15:04:28 <atsushi> scribe+
15:04:41 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 1
15:04:41 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:04:44 <addison> agenda?
15:05:06 <atsushi> addison: on webauthentication, and string-meta progress
15:05:11 <atsushi> ... anything else?
15:05:22 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 2
15:05:22 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:05:46 <addison> #61
15:05:46 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/61 -> Action 61 add css+xml for next call with css (see notes about ttml2) (on aphillips) due 2023-12-14
15:06:11 <addison> close #61
15:06:12 <gb> Closed -> action #61 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/61
15:06:13 <atsushi> addison: able to make that, closing
15:06:18 <addison> #43
15:06:18 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43  pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18
15:06:51 <atsushi> addison: still keeping
15:06:56 <addison> #33
15:06:56 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
15:07:09 <addison> #12
15:07:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips)
15:07:22 <atsushi> addison: updated old explainer
15:07:25 <atsushi> ... keep going
15:07:29 <addison> #8
15:07:29 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips)
15:07:37 <addison> #7
15:07:37 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github)
15:07:53 <atsushi> addison: see no activity from others
15:07:56 <addison> #4
15:07:57 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)
15:08:17 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:08:17 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:08:27 <xfq> q+
15:08:31 <r12a> q+
15:09:18 <addison> ack xfq
15:09:21 <Bert> present+
15:09:24 <Bert> scribe+
15:12:09 <Bert> xfq: Had discussions about i18n in email.
15:13:12 <Bert> addison: I would like to see somebody from HTML reactiing as well.
15:13:29 <addison> s/HTML reacting/Universal Acceptance reacting/
15:13:43 <Bert> xfq: I mentioned that. We are discussing what to say, what to do.
15:14:28 <Bert> JcK: You can expect resistance to universal acceptance, like e.g., for emojis in domain names.
15:14:41 <Bert> addison: But this is about the lhs, not the domain names.
15:14:51 <addison> ack next
15:14:54 <Bert> JcK: There is a domain-name aspect as well.
15:15:09 <Bert> addison: But not for HTML.
15:15:28 <Bert> xfq: Other issues such as JS support.
15:16:06 <Bert> JcK: With idna2003, the conversionis not unabiguously reversible.
15:16:26 <Bert> ... Solved in idna2006, but some parts still stuck on idna2003.
15:16:53 <Bert> r12a: As of Jan 1, xfq will be the i18n lead.
15:17:04 <addison> s/idna2006/idna2008/
15:17:18 <Bert> ... I will be around, working 2 days a week, including Thursdays.
15:18:21 <Bert> ... (I saw a film about a guy who got a bus pass and started traveling around England. I just got a bus pass too... :-( )
15:18:23 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
15:18:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html xfq
15:19:01 <Bert> ... But I'll have things to do.
15:19:43 <Bert> addison: congrats xfq, congrats r12a!
15:20:04 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 3
15:20:04 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:20:12 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 4
15:20:12 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:20:23 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
15:20:57 <Bert> addison: No new incoming request yet, but verifiable credentials is coming. They just did a self-review.
15:21:09 <addison> agenda?
15:21:21 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 9
15:21:21 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- String-Meta revision -- taken up [from addison]
15:21:34 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/81
15:22:36 <Bert> addison: I'm doing a large reorganization, that why the big diff.
15:23:09 <Bert> ... You can start looking at this. I'd value your review.
15:23:43 <Bert> xfq: What ois the objective of the refactoring?
15:24:11 <Bert> addison: Instead of a new string time, we now recommend a @@ approach.
15:24:29 <Bert> ... I'm bringing those things in this doc.
15:24:45 <r12a> q+ for another info share - not urgent
15:25:04 <Bert> ... From an exploration document it is now about what you *should* do.
15:25:48 <Bert> ... I'd like to finish before the end of the year.
15:25:59 <Bert> ... We should do a wide review early next year.
15:26:16 <Bert> ... Did we do a wide review of something before?
15:26:23 <Bert> r12a: I think we did.
15:26:59 <Bert> addison: WebIDL is an example of single-language localizable text fields.
15:27:12 <Bert> ... WebIDL is maybe not the languagte for describing these things.
15:27:16 <Bert> xfq: Maybe JSON.
15:27:21 <Bert> addison: Yes, maybe JSON.
15:27:32 <addison> agenda?
15:27:45 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 8
15:27:45 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- fun with [w3c/i18n-activity] rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding -- taken up [from addison]
15:27:51 <addison> #1800
15:27:52 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1800 -> Issue 1800 [not found]
15:28:15 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1994
15:28:16 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1994 -> Issue 1994 rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding (by emlun) [type:technical] [i18n-tracker]
15:28:36 <Bert> addison: This is a new issue against webauth.
15:28:50 <Bert> ... We commented long ago on truncating strings.
15:29:49 <Bert> ... webauthn doesn't actually say truncate to 64 utf-8 bytes, but to 64 bytes.
15:30:05 <Bert> ... It should say what encoding is used.
15:30:17 <addison> https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/index#
15:30:39 <Bert> ... In the horizontal tracker you can see that this isse has caused webauth to move to the top of the list.
15:31:02 <Bert> ... All of the issues are open.
15:31:19 <Bert> ... Apparently, this would be issues for webauthn3.
15:31:35 <Bert> ... But backwards-compat with webauthn 2...
15:31:49 <Bert> ... I think there isn't anything we can do about it.
15:32:15 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1394
15:32:15 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1394 -> Issue 1394 [Editorial] U+ notation is incorrect (by aphillips) [s:webauthn] [needs-resolution] [t:char_ranges]
15:32:58 <Bert> ... The last issue ^^ in their spec they have compatibility characters. I gave them the correct ones, btu they didn't fix it.
15:33:11 <Bert> r12a: So what status is this spec?
15:33:11 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn-2/
15:33:17 <Bert> addison: It is a Rec.
15:33:29 <Bert> r12a: Did you talk to Philippe about that?
15:33:59 <Bert> addison: I'll check in my archives what we told them.
15:34:12 <Bert> ... But not pleased to see a Rec with 7 open issues from us.
15:34:34 <Bert> r12a: Seems some thing we can change in the Rec.
15:34:41 <Bert> addison: Yes, errata.
15:35:17 <Bert> xfq: It looks like the process works correctly. The issues were after the webauthn 3 first draft.
15:35:50 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1642
15:35:50 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1642 -> Issue 1642 Unicode "tag" characters are deprecated for language tagging (by aphillips) [type:technical] [i18n-needs-resolution] [@Risk]
15:35:59 <atsushi> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/315
15:35:59 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/315 -> CLOSED Issue 315 PR Request for Web Authentication:
 An API for accessing Public Key Credentials 
Level 2 (by YubicoDemo) [Entering PR] [Awaiting Publication]
15:36:19 <Bert> addison: But the issue links to webauthn2.
15:36:34 <Bert> xfq: Yes, but the issue was created when the spec was already a Rec.
15:37:44 <Bert> ... webauthn 3 is not CR yet.
15:38:19 <Bert> addison: I can try to find the history.
15:39:26 <Bert> addison: I will add a comment to issue 1800 and revert it to needs-resolution.
15:39:29 <addison> https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#char_truncation
15:39:58 <Bert> addison: Our text about truncation ^^ also doesn't mention a specific encoding.
15:40:13 <Bert> ... I will make a pull request for that.
15:40:28 <addison> action: addison to reply to webauthn issue tracked by 1800 and add bp to specdev about encoding in trunction
15:40:35 <gb> Created -> action #62 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/62
15:40:35 <xfq> s/revert/convert
15:40:41 <addison> agenda?
15:40:57 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 6
15:40:57 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Needs Attention issues for WG review (continued) -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:41:04 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aneeds-attention
15:41:32 <addison> i18n-activity#258
15:41:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/258 -> Issue 258 Default styling for chinese annotations (by r12a) [close?] [s:css-ruby] [needs-attention] [i:inline-notes] [spec-type-issue] [clreq] [needs-resolution] [t:typ_ruby]
15:42:49 <Bert> r12a: Didn't we talk about this last week? I think it is fine.
15:43:16 <Bert> addison: OK, I'll close it. And 259, too.
15:43:55 <addison> i18n-activity#219
15:43:56 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/219 -> Issue 219 definition of character (by r12a) [close?] [s:svg] [needs-attention] [needs-resolution] [t:char_def]
15:43:58 <addison> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/263
15:43:58 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/263 -> CLOSED Issue 263 definition of character (by r12a) [Text chapter] [SVG Core] [i18n-needs-resolution]
15:45:39 <addison> i18n-activity#606
15:45:39 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/606 -> Issue 606 Character counting in text 'x', 'y', 'dx', 'dy', and 'rotate' attributes (by r12a) [s:svg] [needs-resolution]
15:45:48 <Bert> addison:  I propose closing the issue, since we are tracking it in 606.
15:46:16 <Bert> s/issue/issue 219/
15:46:40 <addison> i18n-activity#506
15:46:40 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/506 -> Issue 506 UAs may have somewhat more liberal handling of the dir attribute than the spec does (by r12a) [tracker] [s:html] [needs-attention] [i:bidi-text] [spec-type-issue] [alreq] [hlreq]
15:46:54 <addison> whatwg/html#2769
15:46:54 <gb> https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2769 -> Issue 2769 UAs may have somewhat more liberal handling of the dir attribute than the spec does (by bzbarsky) [good first issue] [topic: rendering] [i18n-tracker] [needs tests] [i18n-alreq] [i18n-hlreq]
15:47:34 <Bert> addison: Hasn't been touched in a while.
15:48:06 <Bert> ... It's a tracker. Do want to make it needs-resolution?
15:49:08 <Bert> r12a: Probably worth looking at what the current situation is. Some things in here are no longer the case.
15:49:21 <Bert> xfq: I will look at it.
15:49:46 <addison> i18n-activity#404
15:49:47 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404 -> Issue 404 Should generalYear (etc.) be gregorianYear (etc.)? (by aphillips) [close?] [s:owl-time] [needs-attention] [needs-resolution] [t:loc_time]
15:50:31 <addison> sdw#888
15:50:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/888 -> CLOSED Issue 888 should generalYear (etc) be gregorianYear (etc)? (by aphillips) [i18n-needs-resolution] [time]
15:50:44 <Bert> xfq: I think we looked at this...
15:52:33 <Bert> addison: They say they are prepared for other calendars, but in practice it is all Gregorian. Do we want to keep it open? Wait for their new review request?
15:53:32 <Bert> ... I can also take away the needs-attention label.
15:54:12 <Bert> xfq: Should probably close it and wait for future review request.
15:54:22 <addison> zakim, take up agendum 7
15:54:22 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
15:54:39 <r12a> q?
15:54:52 <Bert> r12a: More infoshare:
15:55:03 <Bert> ... We talked about changing th title of the arabic layour reqs.
15:55:15 <addison> ack next
15:55:17 <Zakim> r12a, you wanted to discuss another info share - not urgent
15:55:22 <Bert> ... I wasn't able to publish it, because the editors are no longer active.
15:55:31 <Bert> ... I talked to the Webmaster.
15:55:59 <Bert> ... There is a new rule that editors must be in the group.
15:56:23 <Bert> ... Way around is to make them authors, and keep the group members as editors.
15:56:49 <Bert> ... But we should now look at how we cite documents. We usually only cite the editors.
15:56:58 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
15:57:22 <Bert> ... And in this case it would look as if I'm the only editor.
15:57:36 <Bert> addison: Can that be done by changing specref?
15:57:42 <Bert> r12a: I think so.
15:57:59 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/International/alreq/
15:58:53 <Bert> addison: Does it have to have an editor?
15:59:21 <Bert> r12a: I think it does.
16:00:11 <xfq> https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/
16:00:27 <Bert> xfq: The jlreq has even more editors who not active anymore.
16:01:21 <Bert> r12a: I considered putting the names as ‘former editors’.
16:01:52 <Bert> addison: Can also use the acknowledgements.
16:02:47 <Bert> ... Is this something to raise with Philippe? Is this just a specdef issue? Should it pick up the authors?
16:03:20 <addison> action: xfq to check on referencing authors in specref
16:03:22 <gb> Created -> action #63 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/63
16:03:36 <Bert> s/specdef/specref
16:05:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
16:06:51 <xfq> xfq has joined #i18n
16:06:59 <xfq> s/HTML reactiing/Universal Acceptance reacting/
16:07:25 <xfq> s/idna/IDNA/G
16:08:08 <xfq> s/new string time/new string type
16:08:36 <xfq> s/webauth./webauthn./
16:09:06 <xfq> rrsagent, make minutes
16:09:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html xfq
16:11:51 <addison> zakim, who is here?
16:11:51 <Zakim> Present: Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, JcK, Bert
16:11:52 <Zakim> On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, atsushi, r12a, gb, florian, eemeli, Github, imlostlmao, James1, gonzu_15, clafase, MojGraph, joraboi445, BoKilgore, SintayewGashaw,
16:11:54 <Zakim> ... hadleybeeman, Mek, koji, alastairc, Rachael, bigbluehat, astearns, cwilso, csarven, fantasai, Bert, hsivonen, agendabot
16:11:56 <addison> zakim, bye
16:11:56 <Zakim> leaving.  As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, JcK, Bert
16:11:56 <Zakim> Zakim has left #i18n
17:20:15 <atsushi_> atsushi_ has joined #i18n