IRC log of i18n on 2023-12-14
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 14:44:56 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #i18n
- 14:45:00 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-irc
- 14:45:08 [addison]
- Meeting: Internationalization Working Group Teleconference
- 14:45:15 [addison]
- Chair: Addison Phillips
- 14:45:24 [agendabot]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d544156-352c-46f2-b6ec-383b4e2462fb/20231214T150000/
- 14:45:24 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 14:45:24 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Agenda Review
- 14:45:24 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Action Items
- 14:45:26 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Info Share
- 14:45:28 [agendabot]
- agenda+ RADAR Review
- 14:45:30 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Pending Issue Review
- 14:45:33 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Needs Attention issues for WG review (continued)
- 14:45:35 [agendabot]
- agenda+ AOB?
- 14:45:58 [addison]
- agenda+ fun with [w3c/i18n-activity] rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding
- 14:46:18 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 14:50:06 [addison]
- present+ Addison
- 14:53:25 [addison]
- agenda+ String-Meta revision
- 14:54:34 [xfq]
- xfq has joined #i18n
- 15:01:03 [JcK]
- JcK has joined #i18n
- 15:01:55 [addison]
- present+ Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao
- 15:03:22 [addison]
- present+ JcK
- 15:04:28 [atsushi]
- scribe+
- 15:04:41 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 1
- 15:04:41 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Agenda Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:04:44 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:05:06 [atsushi]
- addison: on webauthentication, and string-meta progress
- 15:05:11 [atsushi]
- ... anything else?
- 15:05:22 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 2
- 15:05:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Action Items -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:05:46 [addison]
- #61
- 15:05:46 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/61 -> Action 61 add css+xml for next call with css (see notes about ttml2) (on aphillips) due 2023-12-14
- 15:06:11 [addison]
- close #61
- 15:06:12 [gb]
- Closed -> action #61 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/61
- 15:06:13 [atsushi]
- addison: able to make that, closing
- 15:06:18 [addison]
- #43
- 15:06:18 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/43 -> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18
- 15:06:51 [atsushi]
- addison: still keeping
- 15:06:56 [addison]
- #33
- 15:06:56 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/33 -> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)
- 15:07:09 [addison]
- #12
- 15:07:09 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/12 -> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips)
- 15:07:22 [atsushi]
- addison: updated old explainer
- 15:07:25 [atsushi]
- ... keep going
- 15:07:29 [addison]
- #8
- 15:07:29 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/8 -> Action 8 Follow up on the status of Canvas and formatted text (on aphillips)
- 15:07:37 [addison]
- #7
- 15:07:37 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/7 -> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github)
- 15:07:53 [atsushi]
- addison: see no activity from others
- 15:07:56 [addison]
- #4
- 15:07:57 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/4 -> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)
- 15:08:17 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 15:08:17 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:08:27 [xfq]
- q+
- 15:08:31 [r12a]
- q+
- 15:09:18 [addison]
- ack xfq
- 15:09:21 [Bert]
- present+
- 15:09:24 [Bert]
- scribe+
- 15:12:09 [Bert]
- xfq: Had discussions about i18n in email.
- 15:13:12 [Bert]
- addison: I would like to see somebody from HTML reactiing as well.
- 15:13:29 [addison]
- s/HTML reacting/Universal Acceptance reacting/
- 15:13:43 [Bert]
- xfq: I mentioned that. We are discussing what to say, what to do.
- 15:14:28 [Bert]
- JcK: You can expect resistance to universal acceptance, like e.g., for emojis in domain names.
- 15:14:41 [Bert]
- addison: But this is about the lhs, not the domain names.
- 15:14:51 [addison]
- ack next
- 15:14:54 [Bert]
- JcK: There is a domain-name aspect as well.
- 15:15:09 [Bert]
- addison: But not for HTML.
- 15:15:28 [Bert]
- xfq: Other issues such as JS support.
- 15:16:06 [Bert]
- JcK: With idna2003, the conversionis not unabiguously reversible.
- 15:16:26 [Bert]
- ... Solved in idna2006, but some parts still stuck on idna2003.
- 15:16:53 [Bert]
- r12a: As of Jan 1, xfq will be the i18n lead.
- 15:17:04 [addison]
- s/idna2006/idna2008/
- 15:17:18 [Bert]
- ... I will be around, working 2 days a week, including Thursdays.
- 15:18:21 [Bert]
- ... (I saw a film about a guy who got a bus pass and started traveling around England. I just got a bus pass too... :-( )
- 15:18:23 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 15:18:24 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 15:19:01 [Bert]
- ... But I'll have things to do.
- 15:19:43 [Bert]
- addison: congrats xfq, congrats r12a!
- 15:20:04 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 3
- 15:20:04 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Info Share -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:20:12 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 4
- 15:20:12 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- RADAR Review -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:20:23 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1
- 15:20:57 [Bert]
- addison: No new incoming request yet, but verifiable credentials is coming. They just did a self-review.
- 15:21:09 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:21:21 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 9
- 15:21:21 [Zakim]
- agendum 9 -- String-Meta revision -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:21:34 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/string-meta/pull/81
- 15:22:36 [Bert]
- addison: I'm doing a large reorganization, that why the big diff.
- 15:23:09 [Bert]
- ... You can start looking at this. I'd value your review.
- 15:23:43 [Bert]
- xfq: What ois the objective of the refactoring?
- 15:24:11 [Bert]
- addison: Instead of a new string time, we now recommend a @@ approach.
- 15:24:29 [Bert]
- ... I'm bringing those things in this doc.
- 15:24:45 [r12a]
- q+ for another info share - not urgent
- 15:25:04 [Bert]
- ... From an exploration document it is now about what you *should* do.
- 15:25:48 [Bert]
- ... I'd like to finish before the end of the year.
- 15:25:59 [Bert]
- ... We should do a wide review early next year.
- 15:26:16 [Bert]
- ... Did we do a wide review of something before?
- 15:26:23 [Bert]
- r12a: I think we did.
- 15:26:59 [Bert]
- addison: WebIDL is an example of single-language localizable text fields.
- 15:27:12 [Bert]
- ... WebIDL is maybe not the languagte for describing these things.
- 15:27:16 [Bert]
- xfq: Maybe JSON.
- 15:27:21 [Bert]
- addison: Yes, maybe JSON.
- 15:27:32 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:27:45 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 8
- 15:27:45 [Zakim]
- agendum 8 -- fun with [w3c/i18n-activity] rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding -- taken up [from addison]
- 15:27:51 [addison]
- #1800
- 15:27:52 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/1800 -> Issue 1800 [not found]
- 15:28:15 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1994
- 15:28:16 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1994 -> Issue 1994 rp.name, user.name and user.displayName length limit does not state binary encoding (by emlun) [type:technical] [i18n-tracker]
- 15:28:36 [Bert]
- addison: This is a new issue against webauth.
- 15:28:50 [Bert]
- ... We commented long ago on truncating strings.
- 15:29:49 [Bert]
- ... webauthn doesn't actually say truncate to 64 utf-8 bytes, but to 64 bytes.
- 15:30:05 [Bert]
- ... It should say what encoding is used.
- 15:30:17 [addison]
- https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/index#
- 15:30:39 [Bert]
- ... In the horizontal tracker you can see that this isse has caused webauth to move to the top of the list.
- 15:31:02 [Bert]
- ... All of the issues are open.
- 15:31:19 [Bert]
- ... Apparently, this would be issues for webauthn3.
- 15:31:35 [Bert]
- ... But backwards-compat with webauthn 2...
- 15:31:49 [Bert]
- ... I think there isn't anything we can do about it.
- 15:32:15 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1394
- 15:32:15 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/1394 -> Issue 1394 [Editorial] U+ notation is incorrect (by aphillips) [s:webauthn] [needs-resolution] [t:char_ranges]
- 15:32:58 [Bert]
- ... The last issue ^^ in their spec they have compatibility characters. I gave them the correct ones, btu they didn't fix it.
- 15:33:11 [Bert]
- r12a: So what status is this spec?
- 15:33:11 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/webauthn-2/
- 15:33:17 [Bert]
- addison: It is a Rec.
- 15:33:29 [Bert]
- r12a: Did you talk to Philippe about that?
- 15:33:59 [Bert]
- addison: I'll check in my archives what we told them.
- 15:34:12 [Bert]
- ... But not pleased to see a Rec with 7 open issues from us.
- 15:34:34 [Bert]
- r12a: Seems some thing we can change in the Rec.
- 15:34:41 [Bert]
- addison: Yes, errata.
- 15:35:17 [Bert]
- xfq: It looks like the process works correctly. The issues were after the webauthn 3 first draft.
- 15:35:50 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1642
- 15:35:50 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/webauthn/issues/1642 -> Issue 1642 Unicode "tag" characters are deprecated for language tagging (by aphillips) [type:technical] [i18n-needs-resolution] [@Risk]
- 15:35:59 [atsushi]
- https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/315
- 15:35:59 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/transitions/issues/315 -> CLOSED Issue 315 PR Request for Web Authentication:
An API for accessing Public Key Credentials
Level 2 (by YubicoDemo) [Entering PR] [Awaiting Publication]
- 15:36:19 [Bert]
- addison: But the issue links to webauthn2.
- 15:36:34 [Bert]
- xfq: Yes, but the issue was created when the spec was already a Rec.
- 15:37:44 [Bert]
- ... webauthn 3 is not CR yet.
- 15:38:19 [Bert]
- addison: I can try to find the history.
- 15:39:26 [Bert]
- addison: I will add a comment to issue 1800 and revert it to needs-resolution.
- 15:39:29 [addison]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/international-specs/#char_truncation
- 15:39:58 [Bert]
- addison: Our text about truncation ^^ also doesn't mention a specific encoding.
- 15:40:13 [Bert]
- ... I will make a pull request for that.
- 15:40:28 [addison]
- action: addison to reply to webauthn issue tracked by 1800 and add bp to specdev about encoding in trunction
- 15:40:35 [gb]
- Created -> action #62 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/62
- 15:40:35 [xfq]
- s/revert/convert
- 15:40:41 [addison]
- agenda?
- 15:40:57 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 6
- 15:40:57 [Zakim]
- agendum 6 -- Needs Attention issues for WG review (continued) -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:41:04 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aneeds-attention
- 15:41:32 [addison]
- i18n-activity#258
- 15:41:32 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/258 -> Issue 258 Default styling for chinese annotations (by r12a) [close?] [s:css-ruby] [needs-attention] [i:inline-notes] [spec-type-issue] [clreq] [needs-resolution] [t:typ_ruby]
- 15:42:49 [Bert]
- r12a: Didn't we talk about this last week? I think it is fine.
- 15:43:16 [Bert]
- addison: OK, I'll close it. And 259, too.
- 15:43:55 [addison]
- i18n-activity#219
- 15:43:56 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/219 -> Issue 219 definition of character (by r12a) [close?] [s:svg] [needs-attention] [needs-resolution] [t:char_def]
- 15:43:58 [addison]
- https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/263
- 15:43:58 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/svgwg/issues/263 -> CLOSED Issue 263 definition of character (by r12a) [Text chapter] [SVG Core] [i18n-needs-resolution]
- 15:45:39 [addison]
- i18n-activity#606
- 15:45:39 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/606 -> Issue 606 Character counting in text 'x', 'y', 'dx', 'dy', and 'rotate' attributes (by r12a) [s:svg] [needs-resolution]
- 15:45:48 [Bert]
- addison: I propose closing the issue, since we are tracking it in 606.
- 15:46:16 [Bert]
- s/issue/issue 219/
- 15:46:40 [addison]
- i18n-activity#506
- 15:46:40 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/506 -> Issue 506 UAs may have somewhat more liberal handling of the dir attribute than the spec does (by r12a) [tracker] [s:html] [needs-attention] [i:bidi-text] [spec-type-issue] [alreq] [hlreq]
- 15:46:54 [addison]
- whatwg/html#2769
- 15:46:54 [gb]
- https://github.com/whatwg/html/issues/2769 -> Issue 2769 UAs may have somewhat more liberal handling of the dir attribute than the spec does (by bzbarsky) [good first issue] [topic: rendering] [i18n-tracker] [needs tests] [i18n-alreq] [i18n-hlreq]
- 15:47:34 [Bert]
- addison: Hasn't been touched in a while.
- 15:48:06 [Bert]
- ... It's a tracker. Do want to make it needs-resolution?
- 15:49:08 [Bert]
- r12a: Probably worth looking at what the current situation is. Some things in here are no longer the case.
- 15:49:21 [Bert]
- xfq: I will look at it.
- 15:49:46 [addison]
- i18n-activity#404
- 15:49:47 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues/404 -> Issue 404 Should generalYear (etc.) be gregorianYear (etc.)? (by aphillips) [close?] [s:owl-time] [needs-attention] [needs-resolution] [t:loc_time]
- 15:50:31 [addison]
- sdw#888
- 15:50:32 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/sdw/issues/888 -> CLOSED Issue 888 should generalYear (etc) be gregorianYear (etc)? (by aphillips) [i18n-needs-resolution] [time]
- 15:50:44 [Bert]
- xfq: I think we looked at this...
- 15:52:33 [Bert]
- addison: They say they are prepared for other calendars, but in practice it is all Gregorian. Do we want to keep it open? Wait for their new review request?
- 15:53:32 [Bert]
- ... I can also take away the needs-attention label.
- 15:54:12 [Bert]
- xfq: Should probably close it and wait for future review request.
- 15:54:22 [addison]
- zakim, take up agendum 7
- 15:54:22 [Zakim]
- agendum 7 -- AOB? -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 15:54:39 [r12a]
- q?
- 15:54:52 [Bert]
- r12a: More infoshare:
- 15:55:03 [Bert]
- ... We talked about changing th title of the arabic layour reqs.
- 15:55:15 [addison]
- ack next
- 15:55:17 [Zakim]
- r12a, you wanted to discuss another info share - not urgent
- 15:55:22 [Bert]
- ... I wasn't able to publish it, because the editors are no longer active.
- 15:55:31 [Bert]
- ... I talked to the Webmaster.
- 15:55:59 [Bert]
- ... There is a new rule that editors must be in the group.
- 15:56:23 [Bert]
- ... Way around is to make them authors, and keep the group members as editors.
- 15:56:49 [Bert]
- ... But we should now look at how we cite documents. We usually only cite the editors.
- 15:56:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 15:57:22 [Bert]
- ... And in this case it would look as if I'm the only editor.
- 15:57:36 [Bert]
- addison: Can that be done by changing specref?
- 15:57:42 [Bert]
- r12a: I think so.
- 15:57:59 [xfq]
- https://www.w3.org/International/alreq/
- 15:58:53 [Bert]
- addison: Does it have to have an editor?
- 15:59:21 [Bert]
- r12a: I think it does.
- 16:00:11 [xfq]
- https://www.w3.org/TR/jlreq/
- 16:00:27 [Bert]
- xfq: The jlreq has even more editors who not active anymore.
- 16:01:21 [Bert]
- r12a: I considered putting the names as ‘former editors’.
- 16:01:52 [Bert]
- addison: Can also use the acknowledgements.
- 16:02:47 [Bert]
- ... Is this something to raise with Philippe? Is this just a specdef issue? Should it pick up the authors?
- 16:03:20 [addison]
- action: xfq to check on referencing authors in specref
- 16:03:22 [gb]
- Created -> action #63 https://github.com/w3c/i18n-actions/issues/63
- 16:03:36 [Bert]
- s/specdef/specref
- 16:05:43 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html addison
- 16:06:51 [xfq]
- xfq has joined #i18n
- 16:06:59 [xfq]
- s/HTML reactiing/Universal Acceptance reacting/
- 16:07:25 [xfq]
- s/idna/IDNA/G
- 16:08:08 [xfq]
- s/new string time/new string type
- 16:08:36 [xfq]
- s/webauth./webauthn./
- 16:09:06 [xfq]
- rrsagent, make minutes
- 16:09:07 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/14-i18n-minutes.html xfq
- 16:11:51 [addison]
- zakim, who is here?
- 16:11:51 [Zakim]
- Present: Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, JcK, Bert
- 16:11:52 [Zakim]
- On IRC I see RRSAgent, Zakim, addison, atsushi, r12a, gb, florian, eemeli, Github, imlostlmao, James1, gonzu_15, clafase, MojGraph, joraboi445, BoKilgore, SintayewGashaw,
- 16:11:54 [Zakim]
- ... hadleybeeman, Mek, koji, alastairc, Rachael, bigbluehat, astearns, cwilso, csarven, fantasai, Bert, hsivonen, agendabot
- 16:11:56 [addison]
- zakim, bye
- 16:11:56 [Zakim]
- leaving. As of this point the attendees have been Addison, Richard, Atsushi, Fuqiao, JcK, Bert
- 16:11:56 [Zakim]
- Zakim has left #i18n
- 17:20:15 [atsushi_]
- atsushi_ has joined #i18n