13:00:04 RRSAgent has joined #wot 13:00:08 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-irc 13:00:12 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 13:00:21 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool 13:01:04 ktoumura has joined #wot 13:01:25 present+ Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:01:34 present+ David_Ezell 13:02:15 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:02:17 Dezell has joined #Wot 13:02:50 Present+ David_Ezell 13:02:58 MIzushima has joined #wot 13:03:02 zakim, who is on the call? 13:03:02 Present: Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Ege_Korkan, Kunihiko_Toumura, Tomoaki_Mizushima, David_Ezell, Mahda_Noura 13:03:59 Ege has joined #wot 13:08:16 topic: Minutes Review 13:08:23 mm: we looked at them in the chairs call 13:08:31 i|we l|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html Dec-6| 13:08:39 rrsagent, make log public 13:08:43 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:08:44 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:09:03 mm: there is no issues at them. Any objections to publish? 13:09:07 mm: minutes are approved 13:09:38 topic: Quick updates 13:09:39 q+ 13:10:09 mm: there is a nordic smart city cg meeting next monday 13:10:17 ... I am not sure about joining 13:10:26 kaz: I have emailed them about a proposal on how to collaborate 13:10:29 ack k 13:10:36 mahda-noura has joined #wot 13:10:46 topic: Meeting Schedule 13:11:33 -> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#Cancellations_and_Schedule_Updates Cancellations and schedule updates 13:11:35 mm: next week is the last main call 13:11:45 dape has joined #wot 13:11:48 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#13_December_2023 13:11:48 ... no scripting, discovery and security on monday 13:11:54 present+ Daniel_Peintner 13:12:01 q+ 13:12:02 topic: Schedule 13:12:28 mm: I will retire the 1.1 items from the schedule.md 13:13:02 q+ 13:13:04 kaz: each TF should clarify their schedule 13:13:05 ack k 13:13:42 s/each TF/regarding the "Cancellations section" of the main wiki, each TF/ 13:14:49 dezell2 has joined #wot 13:15:36 mm: let's update this since we are here 13:15:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:15:43 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:15:58 s/topic: Schedule// 13:16:09 s/mm: I will retire the 1.1 items from the schedule.md// 13:16:10 q? 13:16:12 q+ 13:16:48 ack dape 13:16:49 dp: Jan 8th is holiday in Japan, probably cancel scripting call? 13:16:50 ack k 13:16:59 kaz: @@@ 13:17:00 kaz: Each TF moderator should think about the schedule 13:17:06 s/kaz: @@@// 13:17:18 s/Each/Right. Thats why I'm suggesting each/ 13:17:33 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:17:34 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:18:24 mm: the TD call slots are fixed now 13:18:38 ek: wednesdays start with TD topics, thursdays start with binding 13:18:54 subtopic: Use Case TF 13:18:58 i/the TD call slots/topic: Rescheduled Meetings/ 13:19:02 mm: we need to have use case calls 13:19:07 i/the TD/subtopic: TD TF/ 13:19:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:19:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:19:16 q? 13:19:16 ... also to get input from contributors and get additional work 13:19:25 chair: McCool 13:19:34 regrets+ Sebastian, Koster 13:19:50 mm: we cannot go through all the use cases in the call 13:20:04 mm: security tf is doing some prework 13:20:27 i|we looked at|scribenikc: Ege| 13:20:30 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:31 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:20:55 s/scribenikc/scribenick/ 13:20:56 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:20:57 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:21:20 q+ 13:21:20 mm: we need to find new tf lead for use cases. We should open the floor for leads 13:21:30 q+ 13:21:56 mm: we will start a doodle for the slot 13:22:22 q+ 13:23:23 i|Rescheduled Meetings|topic: Group Schedule| 13:23:27 i|Rescheduled Meetings|mm: I will retire the 1.1 items from the schedule.md| 13:23:27 mm: the slots presented are filtered based on my and Kaz's availability 13:23:32 ack e 13:23:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:23:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:23:46 ek: shouldn't we pick a tf lead first? 13:23:57 mm: me and kaz should be present anyways 13:24:08 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:24:09 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:24:45 mm: we can ask for tf leads with a deadline 13:25:22 i|will ret|scribenick: kaz| 13:25:33 kaz: We should ask for volunteers for all missing TF leads 13:25:52 i|the TD call slots|scribenick: Ege| 13:25:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:25:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:26:01 kaz: probably it is time for us to have a call for nomination 13:26:11 q+ 13:26:14 ack k 13:26:35 s/a call for/an official call for/ 13:26:57 mm: I also think that the tf lead should be also an editor 13:27:34 de: I would be available for use cases calls about the retail 13:28:52 mm: I will send an email about the TF leads 13:29:25 s/an email/a call-for-nomination email/ 13:29:35 ack d 13:29:36 ack e 13:29:44 q+ 13:31:31 ek: Should we start the work for all of them at the same time? 13:31:51 mm: I think we can postpone arch and profile and focus on use cases. we need to recruit people 13:32:07 ek: I agree that we should focus on use cases. 13:32:08 q? 13:32:19 mm: we can do that 13:32:27 kaz: I agree on concentrating on use cases first 13:32:38 q+ 13:32:42 ack k 13:33:23 ack k 13:33:24 mm: We should do it for discovery and security as well since they are urgent 13:34:14 q+ 13:34:18 kaz: @@@ 13:34:54 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1937 13:34:59 s/@@@/We can start with the Use Cases TF and the Security TF for the Call-for-nomination then/ 13:35:13 i|1937|topic: Project Management| 13:35:45 i/We can/scribenick: kaz/ 13:35:54 scribenick: Ege 13:35:58 ack e 13:36:00 q? 13:36:02 ek: we have an initial PR with a draft containing opinions 13:36:35 ... we can merge that and discuss this more 13:37:21 kaz: We need more time on this discussion. TD TF was working on how to use github project but we need to understand our requirements 13:37:57 ... if the whole group is fine, we can ask the TD TF to draft a proposal 13:37:59 ack k 13:38:09 s/TD TF was/TD TF has been/ 13:38:38 s/github project/GitHub's "Project" capability to manage progress/ 13:38:49 s/requirements/requirements as the whole WoT WG/ 13:38:51 mm: sometime in january we need to have a special call about this 13:39:32 s/fine/OK to ask the TD TF to see how to use the GitHub's "Project" capability/ 13:39:45 topic: Publications 13:39:48 s/proposal/proposal about possible policy/ 13:39:56 mm: everything is done for publications 13:40:00 topic: Resources 13:40:11 mm: we have an html placeholder for the discovery 13:40:12 q+ 13:40:22 s/on this discussion/on this discussion, so probably not for today./ 13:40:33 s/TD TF has/So far, TD-TF has/ 13:40:35 https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1935 for TD 13:40:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:40:53 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:41:11 mm: we will ask for reviews from the group 13:41:12 s/today../today./ 13:41:14 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:41:16 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:41:24 q? 13:42:06 q+ 13:42:11 ack E 13:44:39 present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi 13:44:42 mm: we should version 13:45:16 kaz: we need to maintain the resources for 1.1 in the next charter as well 13:46:33 ek: so the resources can be updated outside of the REC process? 13:46:41 mm: yes, it is not prohibited by W3C 13:47:08 kaz: breaking changes should be added to the new version 13:48:27 s/version/version. also we need to clarify the policy on how to maintain and update wot-resources./ 13:48:29 mm: I will archive the meeting agendas for next year 13:48:53 s/in the next ch/during the new ch/ 13:48:58 ack k 13:49:18 s/we should version/we should be careful about versioning/ 13:49:25 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:49:27 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:51:00 s/new charter as well/new charter as well. regarding the remaining problems on Discovery and TD, we should have two issues on wot-resources, one pointing the issue on wot-discovery and another pointing the issue on wot-thing-description./ 13:51:02 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:51:04 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:51:20 q+ 13:51:29 Grundfos 13:52:16 i/Grundfos/topic: Meetups/ 13:52:50 ek: there was a nice talk from Grundfos with usage of our ontologies in an upcoming ISO standard 13:53:35 q? 13:53:52 ... he mentioned the importance of our plugfests 13:55:01 mm: we need to think about the right way to do that 13:55:31 kaz: As I mentioned, we need to think about this whole process 13:55:46 ... maybe we need liaison tf 13:58:09 mm: there are different cases, i.e. a company using our specs, an sdo 13:58:36 mm: we should add review process for ontologies 14:00:39 kaz: we are getting input from outside of ig/wg, we need to discuss how to incorporate such input 14:00:46 ... this is important for the IG charter discussion 14:01:22 s/discussion/discussion, so would suggest we create several GitHub Issues on wot-charter-drafts for the WoT IG discussion/ 14:01:54 subtopic: JP CG 14:02:02 mm: any updates? 14:02:13 kaz: there is something happening related to the smart cities ig 14:03:13 q? 14:03:14 ack k 14:03:15 q+ 14:04:09 topic: Liaison 14:04:24 mm: do we know the ISO group that the Grundfos work is happening at? 14:04:36 ek: I need to check, there are different iso liaisons already 14:05:33 kaz: @@1 14:05:38 kaz: is he a liaison contact? 14:05:45 s/kaz: @@1// 14:05:47 ek: I do not know, let's discuss seaprarey 14:06:19 kaz: In that case, let's have some more discussion offline. I can explain what is needed for "W3C Liaison" to you and the Chairs again./ 14:06:30 s|again./|again.| 14:06:43 i|In that|scribenick: kaz| 14:06:47 scribenick: Ege 14:06:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:06:55 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:07:18 q+ 14:09:08 topic: TF Reports 14:09:15 subtopic: Marketing 14:09:35 -> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/chairs/2023OctDec/0045.html MarComm Team's announcement (Member-only) 14:09:39 ack k 14:10:16 kaz: as above, W3C MarComm Team sent out an announcement saying W3C as a whole is switching to Mastodon 14:10:27 ... but we ourselves can make our own decision 14:11:10 ... I personally would suggest we also use Mastodon only because double posting would be time-consuming 14:11:17 i/as above/scribenick: kaz/ 14:11:21 @wot@w3c.social 14:11:21 scribenick: Ege 14:11:43 proposal: Create a Mastodon WoT channel called @wot@w3c.social 14:12:06 q+ 14:12:52 ack k 14:13:09 resolution: Create a Mastodon WoT channel called @wot@w3c.social (tentative resolution - effective in 5 working days) 14:13:25 q+ 14:13:55 ack k 14:14:22 kaz: just to make sure, if the name (@wot@w3c.social) is not approved by the MarComm Team, please check with them first 14:14:29 i/just/scribenick: kaz/ 14:14:32 scribenick: Ege 14:16:40 [ break ] 14:16:45 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:16:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:26:07 q+ 14:26:50 topic: IG Charter 14:27:09 kaz: given the small participation and lacking two of the three co-Chairs 14:27:16 ... we should clarify what to do for today 14:27:29 mm: don't think we can merge PRs today 14:27:56 i/given/scribenick: kaz 14:28:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:28:02 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:28:33 ... can still look into the proposed text, though 14:29:06 subtopic: PR 137 14:29:34 q+ 14:29:39 ack k 14:29:55 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/137 PR 137 - Update text for Plugfest and Testing 14:30:30 ek: also thinking about plugfest and testing through the CG discussion 14:30:59 ... think testing for each spec should be done by each TF who is in charge of that spec 14:31:14 mm: TF is in charge of the Implementation Report 14:32:20 cris_ has joined #wot 14:32:32 q+ 14:32:33 ek: CG participants also could submit test input 14:32:39 kaz: what do you mean? 14:33:16 mm: test input covers test cases and test results 14:33:34 kaz: what do you mean by test cases? 14:34:21 ... example data for each assertion 14:34:35 s/assertion/assertion?/ 14:35:19 ack e 14:37:26 ... maybe we don't need to clarify those terms within the IG Charter itself, and rather we should remove the details 14:38:15 ... but we do need to clearly define what to be done by whom separately 14:40:59 mm: (puts comments about that) 14:41:12 ... charter itself could be "vague" 14:41:49 ... "test input" could include "test cases" (example data) and "test results" (CSV files) 14:42:14 ca: partly defining the policy for WG? 14:42:26 mm: WG is in charge of the Implementation Reports 14:42:29 q+ 14:42:32 ack c 14:42:33 q+ 14:42:51 ... we need to clarify the policy for IG as well 14:44:15 ack k 14:44:28 kaz: in any case, we need to clarify the roles of the groups 14:44:34 ... who to do which part of testing 14:44:47 +1 for kaz 14:45:07 ek: we need to come back the discussion on "which group to do what" question 14:45:16 ... have been working on the question for a while 14:45:48 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/134 PR 134 - Relationship among WoT groups 14:46:38 q+ 14:47:16 mm: wondering if using drawio would be good for standardization work 14:47:40 ... (but goes through the diagrams anyway :) 14:47:53 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/134/files#diff-9996120971417e6c2a1a25fac90b2712a35c02edcc95f6904545a6a5070ff4c1 diagrams 14:48:02 q+ 14:49:10 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/blob/cc6d0fb5945e3ea04c527f44c4eabe6ebe7ebdd2/relationship.md relationship.md on the branch 14:49:44 ek: so far putting all the diagrams into one, though 14:50:55 mm: don't think (only) the IG generates the requirements by themselves 14:51:09 ack e 14:51:25 ... should clarify who to generate requirements 14:51:34 ... myself think each TF to do that 14:53:17 kaz: how to describe the bigger mechanism, who to make contributions from outside the IG, would be the key question here 14:53:19 ack k 14:53:28 mm: right 14:53:51 ... maybe the next diagram on the right, (Use Cases), trying to describe that 14:54:07 ca: great to have this kind of diagram itself 14:54:43 ... wondering if it would make sense to describe the mechanism to get input form outside 14:54:54 mm: need general policy 14:55:17 ... e.g., have to join the IG to make contribution for the Use Cases and Requirements Note 14:55:53 ca: what if outsiders like CG participants give input? 14:55:56 q+ 14:55:57 ack c 14:56:14 mm: all the CGs make the same commitment for CLA. right? 14:56:16 kaz: yes 14:57:52 ... the WoT IG is in charge of the UC/Req Note 14:58:07 ... the Note is not normative 14:58:32 ... so the IG can accept proposals from outside including CGs and external SDOs equally 14:58:43 ack k 14:58:55 ek: (continues to explain the other diagrams) 14:59:29 mm: "Plugfest" has several purposes 14:59:46 ... evangelism, testing, etc. 15:00:05 TallTed has joined #wot 15:00:10 ... specifically for interoperability testing 15:01:36 kaz: diagrams may give different impressions to different people 15:01:51 ... so we can concentrate on the text description first 15:02:07 ... and think about how to fix the diagram later 15:02:16 s/we can/I'd suggest we/ 15:02:19 [adjourned] 15:02:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:02:25 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/13-wot-minutes.html kaz 15:05:16 Ege_2 has joined #wot 15:06:29 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf 15:16:38 Ege_2 has joined #wot 16:52:17 bkardell_ has joined #wot 17:11:45 Zakim has left #wot 18:31:42 gkellogg has joined #wot 18:33:28 gkellogg has joined #wot