– DRAFT –
Internationalization Working Group Teleconference

Agenda Review

<JcK> Hi. Google just dropped a bomb on me that I didn't expect until at least month's end... have to deal with it and won't be able to participate in today's meeting. Sorry for short notice.

addison: are there other agenda additions we need to consider?

Action Items

<addison> gb, list open actions

<gb> Found actions in w3c/i18n-actions: #60, #59, #53, #47, #43, #35, #33, #18, #16, #12, #11, #8, #7, #5, #4

<addison> #60

<gb> Action 60 follow up with dom about github discussion notifications (on xfq) due 2023-12-07

<addison> close #60

<gb> Closed action #60

<addison> fuqiao: done but unfortunately hard to modify notifications to deal with gh discussions

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/47#discussioncomment-7777609

<addison> ... creating manual process of notifying lists about new discussions

<r12a> https://github.com/w3c/jlreq-d/discussions/50

atsushi: we need to migrate from REST to GraphQL
… @@1

r12a: I'm getting interested in the idea of using Discussions
… seems like it could work quite well for what Kida-san had in mind
… in the first comment there's a proposal
… and then people could discuss it below in various common threads
… that seems better than using a wiki
… using a wiki is kind of difficult
… the basic problem we have is that you don't get notified
… unless you subscribed to it

#59

<gb> Action 59 follow up with julie rawe on next steps with coga such as a work plan (on aphillips) due 2023-12-07

r12a: so we can tell them to subscribe

close #59

<gb> Closed action #59

#53

<gb> Action 53 come up with a set of information CSS want the i18n group to provide support for generic font families (on frivoal, fantasai) due 2023-11-01

#47

<gb> Action 47 make the CSSWG aware of Warichu (on frivoal) due 2023-10-04

#43

<gb> Action 43 pull together the list of win/mac/etc apis for setting base direction and/or language (on aphillips) due 2023-09-18

#35

<gb> Action 35 make the edits of CSS #5478 (on fantasai) due 2023-08-30

#33

<gb> Action 33 Close issues marked `close?` or bring to WG for further review (on aphillips)

#18

<gb> Action 18 Have informal explanation sessions about counter style translations with csswg members (on frivoal, fantasai)

#16

<gb> Action 16 Keep track of line-breaking in Korean for i18n-discuss#11 (on aphillips)

#12

<gb> Action 12 Upgrade/edit the explainer to address issues raised by google (on aphillips)

addison: #33, we're still reviewing the needs attentions
… I'm gonna keep this as perennial for us to review

r12a: the thing that was stopping you publishing was the use of a semicolon instead of an ampersand in the echidna file
… that's something I've stumbled on in the past
… I was wondering where we got the template for the file

addison: I changed from FPWD to DNOTE
… I don't think I created the file
… it was already stale

r12a: OK. Thank you.

#11

<gb> Action 11 Triage all css properties to determine which are logical, physical, or na by default (on frivoal)

#8

<gb> Action 8 Create pr against canvas formatted text (on aphillips)

#7

<gb> Action 7 Remind shepherds to tend to their awaiting comment resolutions (Evergreen) (on aphillips, xfq, himorin, r12a, bert-github)

#5

<gb> Action 5 Check into how to list questions at the top of a digest and/or improve lang enablement communications (on r12a)

close #5

<gb> Closed action #5

#4

<gb> Action 4 Work with respec and bikeshed to provide the character markup template as easy-to-use markup (on r12a)

r12a: I have changed my own implementation of that significantly recently

Info Share

addison: I published localizable manifest
… I also pushed xfq's change to the glossary to /TR

r12a: I have four days to go next week and then I'm on vacation
… until the middle of January

RADAR Review

r12a: and thereafter, I will be working 2 days a week

addison: have a nice time

Info Share

r12a: yesterday, the W3C announced on a Twitter feed that it was now leaving Twitter
… and let people go over to Mastodon
… many new followers

RADAR Review

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-request/projects/1

Renaming alreq

addison: I have moved a few items that have published the CR over to Completed
… after checking they had nothing open

<r12a> https://www.w3.org/International/alreq/

r12a: xfq noticed the title of the document is "Text Layout Requirements for the Arabic Script"
… it has been some years and that document hasn't changed
… it just describes Arabic and Persian
… it also matches the gap analysis document
… if we want to we can expand it later
… although I'm not sure that's a good idea because the amount of stuff you have to do to cover Urdu etc. is huge

Bert: it's a good idea
… it seems to indeed only talk about the Arabic language and Persian language

xfq: do we need to mention 'Standard Arabic'?

r12a: it's probably better just to say Arabic
… @@

RESOLUTION: rename alreq to "Arabic & Persian Layout Requirements"

Needs-Attention issues

https://github.com/w3c/i18n-activity/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3Aneeds-attention

#1006

<gb> Issue 1006 [not found]

w3c/i18n-activity#1006

<gb> Issue 1006 Informal spellings in specifications (by w3cbot) [close?] [tracker] [needs-attention]

close w3c/i18n-activity#1006

<gb> Cannot close issue #1006. Forbidden.

addison: xfq looked into the informal spelling thing and made some replies on that
… I can close it now

w3c/i18n-activity#980

<gb> Issue 980 Interaction between tts:writingMode and tts:direction on paragraph element. (by w3cbot) [tracker] [s:ttml] [needs-attention]

xfq: I'll follow up on the W3C Manual of Style

addison: #980 is a tts issue

<gb> Issue 980 [not found]

addison: the last comment that I had on it was asking atsushi if we should discuss

atsushi: this is actually an issue between the model of CSS and XML-based styles
… even if timed text does not utilise the CSS model, I still want to get some intermediate model between XML and CSS on this specific point
… but I have no idea how to make it happen
… I suppose there could be some model between XML and CSS, it should help WebVTT discussions
… it's quite hard for TTML
… to use the same model as the web browser

addison: should we turn this into needs-resolution instead of a tracker or is it okay just as a tracker?
… do you want an action to come back to us with a description that we could work on?

atsushi: for now there is no way to update TTML to use the CSS model
… personally I think we should close this discussion and discuss it in WebVTT or IMSC

addison: should we keep this as tracker?

atsushi: it is great to keep this tracker but there is no hope for it to be resolved
… but it is quite important to keep it as a tracker
… it is important for future timed text

addison: do we need to engage CSS about that problem?

atsushi: there was a bunch of discussion including florian from CSS
… but there's no resolution
… it's quite hard to change its model now
… from the Team Contact's point of view, I think it won't be supported by TTML 2, but for upcoming specs like WebVTT, we really need to align with the CSS model

addison: should I add it to our agenda for the next call?

atsushi: yes

ACTION: addison to add css+xml for next call with css (see notes about ttml2)

<gb> Created action #61

#w3c/i18n-activity#809

w3c/i18n-activity#809

<gb> Issue 809 [css-fonts] limit local fonts to those selected by users in browser settings (or other browser chrome) (by xfq) [tracker] [s:css-fonts] [needs-attention] [i:fonts]

addison: this is related to the fingerprinting issue
… should we mark this as needs resolution instead of just tracker?
… privacy thinks it needs resolution

<r12a> w3c/csswg-drafts#5421 (comment)

<gb> Issue 5421 [css-fonts-4] The spec should not allow UAs to ignore user-installed fonts (by r12a) [css-fonts-4] [i18n-needs-resolution] [privacy-needs-resolution]

r12a: I think this issue is the same
… except the other way around
… the first issue says you should limit local fonts
… the second issue says please don't limit local fonts
… Chris made some changes recently which kind of helped a bit
… but this didn't satisfy our concerns

addison: we can comment on #4497 to say we think this is a duplicate of #5421

<gb> Issue 4497 [not found]

<gb> Issue 5421 [not found]

w3c/i18n-activity#765

<gb> Issue 765 input field placeholders should respect the dir attribute when set to "auto" (by xfq) [tracker] [s:html] [needs-attention] [i:bidi-text] [spec-type-issue] [alreq] [hlreq] [i:interaction]

addison: do you want to make that comment?

r12a: OK

addison: there have been related activity where we were fixing a bunch of the controls
… first question, should this be a needs resolution?

r12a: I personally would think it should be needs resolution

xfq: +1

r12a: we certainly need to add a comment to say RLM doesn't actually do the job you need most of the time
… I need to reread this

w3c/i18n-activity#590

<gb> Issue 590 advance is measured as distance up to left side of character #3994 (by r12a) [tracker] [s:html] [needs-attention]

addison: it actually says to the left side of the character and of course the advance goes the other way when you're doing RTL

<r12a> whatwg/html#4026 (comment)

<gb> Issue 4026 TextMetrics.advances should define more details (by kojiishi) [topic: canvas] [i18n-tracker]

r12a: why are they trying to do this low-level stuff themselves rather than relying on the font?

addison: this is canvas
… they have a text interface
… you can do things like get text metrics and measure the text

<Bert> web-platform-tests/wpt#34448 says that the "advances" attribute is indeed removed.

<gb> Issue 34448 [html/canvas] tests for TextMetrics.advances should not be in WPT as this attribute is not in the spec (by jfkthame)

(modify my action)

addison: it looks like it's not active
… I'll write to them and keep this as needs attention for now

AOB?