12:58:39 RRSAgent has joined #wot 12:58:43 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-irc 13:00:39 meeting: WoT-WG/IG 13:00:48 mjk has joined #wot 13:01:21 Mizushima has joined #wot 13:01:24 present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Michael_McCool, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster 13:02:00 present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima 13:02:34 ktoumura has joined #wot 13:02:49 present+ Kunihiko_Toumura 13:03:26 McCool has joined #wot 13:03:56 luca_barbato has joined #wot 13:04:27 agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/Main_WoT_WebConf#6_December_2023 13:05:03 mahda-noura has joined #wot 13:05:14 Ege has joined #wot 13:05:14 present+ Mahda_Noura 13:06:28 Dezell has joined #Wot 13:06:36 present+ Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato 13:06:43 rrsagent, make log public 13:06:47 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:06:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:06:55 Present+ David_Ezell 13:08:45 topic: review minutes from November 29th 13:08:56 scribenick: mjk 13:09:01 mm: any comments on the minutes from last week? 13:09:45 mm: any changes or objections to publish? 13:09:57 ... no objections, published 13:10:10 topic: updates 13:10:26 i|any comme|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/11/29-wot-minutes.html Nov-29| 13:10:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:10:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:11:09 mm: Nordic smart city meeting again on the 18th, we have a lot of conflicts and would like them to change the schedule if they can. 13:11:37 ... in the meantime, we will cancel meetings on the 18th so people can participate 13:12:02 ... we should add the Nordic CG to our collaboration list 13:12:11 topic: meeting schedule changes 13:12:33 mm: only have 2 weeks left to get stuff done this year 13:12:37 gkellogg has joined #wot 13:13:10 ... next monday is the last meeting of the year for security, discovery, and scripting 13:13:19 ... any other cancellations? 13:14:21 kaz: next scripting call will be on December 11th, and will be the last meeting of the year for scripting 13:14:54 mm: topic: schedule 13:15:15 q+ 13:15:20 matsuda has joined #wot 13:15:28 ... The December 5th publication date is the actual date 13:15:39 ... when are the resources published? 13:15:59 kaz: the resources are available as of December 5th also 13:16:01 dape has joined #wot 13:16:28 ... Spec publication is separate from the resource management 13:16:29 ack k 13:16:44 q+ 13:16:59 mm: we should be careful about updating resources because they can cause breaking changes 13:17:16 ... we should stage and test resources going forward 13:17:25 ack k 13:17:31 sebastian has joined #wot 13:17:37 topic: TD call slot 13:17:41 sorry for being late 13:17:54 mm: doodle was extended, today we can decide 13:18:05 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf 13:18:24 ege: The TD agenda has the result 13:19:31 s/the resources are available as of December 5th also/as I described last week, the redirection was available last week already, and the contents have been updated for Discovery ontology, etc. If we need to mention some exact date, we can simply say "It's available as of Dec 5th also"./ 13:19:32 q+ 13:19:43 ... The proposal is for the first hour of the current slot on Wednesday and Thursday in the slot 1 hour earlier (9:00 US Eastern time) 13:20:08 ... The new schedule will start January 10th 13:20:40 seb: Suggest defining one call for TD and the other call for Binding discussion 13:20:41 chair: McCool, Koster, Sebastian 13:21:02 q? 13:21:06 q+ 13:21:09 ... to accommodate people's interests 13:21:20 ack s 13:21:32 ... we should see which day is better for which topic 13:21:55 mm: let's pick one and see if we need to change it later 13:22:31 kaz: it's not necessary to discuss this in the main call, we should discuss in the TD slot 13:23:10 ... we can discuss in the TD call first, then report back to the main call 13:24:13 mm: please record the change in the minutes 13:24:16 present+ Sebastian_Kaebisch, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Tetsushi_Matsuda 13:24:17 topic: planning 13:24:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:24:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:24:30 ack k 13:24:59 mm: going to defer the policy topic until next year and try to complete the IG charter this year in the last 2 meetings 13:25:21 ... we need to figure out project management 13:25:34 ... can we get a draft from Ege and Koster? 13:25:53 Ege: we will discuss in the TD call today and report back 13:26:39 i|topic: schedule|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/schedule.md schedule.md| 13:26:40 ... the idea is to split the issues into small pieces and track them using a kanban 13:26:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:26:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:26:53 q+ 13:27:04 q+ 13:27:17 ... the goal is not make it too complicated but also be able to manage the load 13:27:42 ack k 13:27:45 kaz: there was discussion in the TD call to review what we have been doing so far, as a starting point 13:28:00 q+ 13:28:14 mm: would prefer a group policy and not have different groups doing different things 13:28:20 s/sorry for being late// 13:28:50 mm: TD can set the path and other groups can follow 13:29:15 ... also need to deal with consistency of resources 13:30:07 kaz: We should clarify which policy is being developed and how it will be used in which group 13:30:47 mm: topic: any news on Open Day? 13:30:49 gkellogg has joined #wot 13:31:07 mm: we should start planning for the June event 13:31:30 seb: need to scope the event, will we have a plugfest? haw many days? 13:31:48 mm: incremental cost of more days is not a big deal 13:31:59 seb: Berlin is not expensive 13:32:21 mm: maybe we can use Siemens facility for the plugfes 13:32:32 s/plugfes/plugfest 13:32:42 topic: task force consolidation 13:33:06 mm: McCool is too busy running too many TFs 13:33:29 ... we need to think about when we will restart architecture and how we will run it 13:33:48 ... McCool only has time for 2 roles 13:34:15 seb: we can put out a call for interest in being a lead 13:34:30 mm: we need a policy for how to get new TF leads 13:34:47 q+ 13:35:06 ... for security, we need to reach out and maybe tap IEs to get more candidates 13:35:09 ack mc 13:36:04 kaz: we should separate the discussion into different topics 13:36:36 ... the issue of McCool being busy is separate from needing more leaders 13:36:57 q+ 13:37:00 +1 kaz 13:37:03 ... there are several issues at once and we need to prioritize the TF lead selection policy 13:38:28 kaz: we may need to consider stopping work on some of these areas 13:39:13 ... we don't have time to discuss this today 13:39:50 ack dape 13:39:55 dape: it would be good to list the task forces we have and see who wants to lead which one 13:40:14 topic: publications 13:40:27 mm: yesterday we published the RECs 13:41:09 ... The implementation report is updated 13:41:14 ack k 13:41:46 https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/REC-wot-architecture11-20231205/ 13:41:48 https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/REC-wot-thing-description11-20231205/ 13:41:48 https://www.w3.org/TR/2023/REC-wot-discovery-20231205/ 13:42:09 ... still need a PR to update some links 13:42:31 ... the Press Release is also published 13:42:36 https://www.w3.org/press-releases/2023/enhanced-web-of-things-connects-diverse-iot-ecosystems/ 13:43:02 s/links/links within the TD Implementation Report/ 13:43:24 i/yesterday/subtopic: RECs/ 13:43:35 q? 13:43:39 i/Press Release/subtopic: Press Release/ 13:43:50 subtopic: Related resources 13:43:54 ... the resource redirections have been set up but there are some issues 13:44:45 q+ 13:45:20 q+ 13:45:52 ... the table needs to be cleaned up 13:46:19 ack k 13:46:36 kaz: we don't need to get into the details in this meeting, should create an issue and discuss in the TD call 13:47:30 ... looked at generating the HTML for discovery, using the tools used by the TD 13:48:18 ... the discovery ontology HTML could be done in the TD area or a separate area 13:48:30 ... there could be a common area for this tooling 13:49:11 gkellogg has joined #wot 13:49:14 s/... looked/mm: tx for the suggestion. will create an Issue. then looked/ 13:49:15 ege: there are some problems with the tooling 13:49:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:49:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:49:35 ... we have already duplicated the tooling for binding templates 13:50:30 ege: some of the tooling is already in a common repository 13:50:31 cris_ has joined #wot 13:51:06 i|the resource re|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/blob/main/discovery/v1/README.md Discovery setting| 13:51:11 mm: so we should follow the pattern from bindings for discovery 13:51:25 i|the resource re|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/blob/main/td/v1.1/README.md TD 1.1 setting| 13:51:49 mm: now going to finalize the DID registration 13:51:56 i|the resource re|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/blob/main/td/v1/README.md TD 1.0 setting| 13:52:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:52:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:52:07 q+ 13:52:07 ack e 13:52:29 mm: we should make sure everything is updated to pull from the correct places 13:52:58 ack k 13:53:29 topic: Other topics 13:54:09 mm: what about the JP CG 13:54:14 i|Other topics|kaz: anyway, we should bring the issues on Discovery to the Discovery TF, and the issues on TD to the TD TF to discuss the details| 13:54:16 haz: waiting for updates 13:54:17 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:54:18 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:54:24 s/haz/kaz 13:54:38 topics: liaisons 13:54:48 i|anyway|scribenick: kaz| 13:54:59 i|what about|scribenick: mjk| 13:55:00 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:55:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:55:41 q? 13:55:41 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:55:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:55:47 q+ 13:56:10 seb: OPC UA has an issue about compliance testing, which needs to be done in OPC 13:56:32 s/topics:/topic:/ 13:56:36 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:56:37 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:56:45 ... The OPC binding will be developed in OPC and registered using the new registration system 13:57:08 ... they will create a new group 13:57:37 kaz: this is aligned with the direction going forward 13:58:30 kaz: it's important to be clear about the requirements for the registration 13:58:59 seb: there is also a good description of the document requirements 13:59:13 ... this is a good direction 13:59:18 s|this is aligned with the direction going forward|this is inline with what PLH and myself have been suggesting, also inline with what the TD/Binding TF have been working on.| 13:59:19 q? 13:59:21 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:22 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:59:28 ack k 13:59:36 topic: TF reports 13:59:45 ... any reports? 13:59:49 s/kaz: it's/... it's/ 13:59:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 13:59:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 13:59:58 q+ 13:59:58 I need to go. bye 14:00:06 ... security and discovery are working on use cases and requirements 14:00:08 s/I need to go. bye// 14:00:13 q+ 14:00:26 ... there is a draft of requirements generated from use cases 14:00:39 ... and categorized 14:00:57 i/security and di/subtopic: Security and Discovery/ 14:01:00 ? 14:01:03 s/?// 14:01:04 q+ 14:01:08 ack cr 14:01:23 ack d 14:01:29 https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Scripting_API_WebConf#Agenda 14:01:47 dape: scripting agenda is changed due to the meeting cancellation on the 18th 14:02:04 ack c 14:02:05 kaz: we need to rebuild the Use Case TF 14:02:23 ack k 14:02:32 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:02:33 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:03:14 q+ 14:03:18 mm: the TF work is deriving requirements from the use cases 14:04:04 kaz: we should concentrate on the overall use case work before splitting it into TF discussions 14:04:16 ack k 14:04:27 q+ 14:04:39 mm: it's logical to work on requirements before work items 14:05:21 ... we could keep the functional requirements in the Use Case TF and work on technical requirements in the specific TF 14:05:55 s/into TF discussions/into TF discussions. we can't dive into it today because we'll discuss the IG Charter for today, but we need to work on that as the whole WoT WG. Starting the discussion in January is OK by me./ 14:05:58 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:05:59 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:06:05 q+ 14:06:36 mm: TD TF should work on requirements before going further on work items 14:07:03 ack e 14:07:04 ack k 14:07:10 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:07:11 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:07:49 kaz: suggest we have a detailed discussion after the new year 14:07:49 [ break til 15 past ] 14:07:49 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:07:50 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:08:01 mm: closing the meeting, restart with the IG charter at 15 past 14:08:10 i|scripting agenda|subtopic: Scripting| 14:08:21 i|we need to rebuild|subtopic: Use Cases| 14:08:23 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:08:24 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:08:46 s/[ break til 15 past ]// 14:08:51 [ break til 15 past ] 14:08:51 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:08:52 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:12:37 gkellogg has joined #wot 14:16:53 topic: IG Charter Discussion 14:17:17 scribenick: Ege 14:18:52 q+ 14:18:55 mjk: here is the IG Charter draft 14:19:34 ... not sure why we have highlighting 14:19:47 i|here|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues wot-charter-drafts Issues| 14:19:49 kaz: that just means proposed, so we just need to remove it before making it offocial 14:20:08 i|here is|-> https://w3c.github.io/wot-charter-drafts/wot-ig-2023-draft.html Draft IG Charter| 14:20:39 q+ 14:21:21 mm: we can start with the easiest 14:21:33 kaz: probably better to start with the order of the template 14:22:36 i|we can start|subtopic: Chairs| 14:23:08 i|we can start|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/136 wot-charter-drafts PR 136 - Update wot-ig-2023-draft.html| 14:23:19 i|we can start|approved and merged| 14:23:36 i|we can start|subtopic: Other PRs| 14:24:08 subtopic: PR 142 14:24:13 mm: sorry for the whitespace diff 14:24:18 s/template/template. If there are really easy topics which could be handled within 5 mins, that's fine. though./ 14:24:55 i|sorry|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/142 wot-charter-drafts PR 142 - IG charter participation policy| 14:25:17 q+ 14:25:24 mm: I changed one sentence that implied that we have a spec in ig 14:26:42 q+ 14:28:17 kaz: the proposed text says "test lead for deliverables", etc., additionally 14:28:31 ... we should compare the text with the current IG Charter too 14:28:37 -> https://www.w3.org/2021/12/wot-ig-2021.html Current IG Charter 14:28:59 q+ 14:30:02 ack e 14:30:34 ek: no need to have test lead in ig right? 14:30:36 mm: we can remove it 14:30:49 mjk: ok we can remove 14:30:53 gkellogg has joined #wot 14:31:06 ek: also weird to mention how much work is needed 14:31:11 mm: that can be also removed 14:31:17 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/11/meig-charter-2023.html another example of the MEIG Charter 14:31:45 kaz: we can also look at MEIG charter 14:32:37 [[ 14:32:37 To be successful, this Interest Group is expected to have 6 or more active participants for its duration, including representatives from key media industries, and active Task Force leaders. The Chairs and Task Force leaders are expected to contribute half of a working day per week towards the Interest Group. There is no minimum requirement for other Participants. 14:32:42 ]]] 14:33:11 present+ Michael_Lagally 14:33:17 kaz: we can add input from MEIG 14:33:20 mm: we can do that later 14:33:54 ml: what happens we have less than 6 participants 14:33:58 s/we can add input from MEIG/we can simply reuse the text from the MEIG Charter, which was recently rechartered/ 14:33:58 mm: it is W3C policy 14:34:45 s/we can do that later/you can create another issue and pullrequest for that purpose/ 14:35:04 subtopic: PR 140 14:35:41 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/140 wot-charter-drafts PR 140 - IG charter communication policy 14:36:48 mm: I have mentioned the WoT Homepage and the IG homepage 14:36:55 ... not many changes otherwise 14:37:04 q+ 14:37:08 ack k 14:37:18 mlagally has joined #wot 14:37:35 q? 14:37:41 ack e 14:37:51 mm: any comments? 14:38:28 q+ 14:40:15 q+ 14:41:22 ack k 14:42:08 kaz: as the Charter template says, the policy of the W3C as a whole about the URL for groups is using "www.w3.org/groups/ig/wot" as the starting point. 14:42:31 kaz: better to not have the marketing page 14:42:35 mm: let's remove 14:42:57 i/as the/scribenick: kaz/ 14:42:57 ml: what do you mean by public contributions 14:43:03 i/better/scribenick: Ege/ 14:44:33 mjk: any objections? 14:44:44 q+ 14:45:08 ack ml 14:45:09 ack k 14:45:22 mm: it is about having a decision when a non-ig member makes a pull request 14:45:29 ... we have allowed it in the past for the use cases 14:45:44 s/mjk: any objections?// 14:45:45 mjk: any objections? 14:45:48 subtopic: PR 139 14:45:52 i/any o/scribenick: kaz/ 14:45:57 scribenick: Ege 14:46:31 -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/pull/139 wot-charter-drafts PR 139 - IG charter decision policy 14:48:51 q+ 14:48:53 mjk: any objection? 14:49:08 mm: this was just copying the same from WG but changing to IG when necessary 14:51:16 gkellogg has joined #wot 14:51:27 kaz: The direction mentions in the decision policy should be removed 14:52:12 s/The direction mentions/Note that "the Director" mentioned/ 14:52:45 s/removed/removed, because we don't have the W3C Director any more. That is rather the problem of the Charter template, though./ 14:52:50 ack k 14:53:17 subtopic: Scope Section 14:53:54 q? 14:54:20 mjk: the last sentence sounds more like a mission statement 14:54:29 q? 14:54:47 q+ 14:55:35 mm: also the security guidelines might be an ig document 14:56:03 s/sentence/sentence from the "Scope Summary"/ 14:56:06 ack k 14:56:49 s/last sentence/last bullet point on "Explore areas"/ 14:56:54 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:56:56 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:57:18 q+ 14:58:02 ack k 14:58:17 mm: people should read the issue and comment accordingly 14:58:40 s/issue/issue 122/ 14:58:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 14:58:48 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 14:59:24 q+ 14:59:27 i|the last bullet|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-charter-drafts/issues/122 wot-charter-drafts Issue 122 - IG Charter 2023: Update scope| 15:01:30 mjk: any other business? 15:01:38 mjk: adjourned 15:02:03 gkellogg has joined #wot 15:02:19 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:02:20 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-wot-minutes.html kaz 15:23:28 gkellogg has joined #wot 15:33:40 gkellogg has joined #wot 15:56:40 gkellogg has joined #wot 15:57:24 gkellogg has joined #wot 16:16:40 gkellogg has joined #wot 16:34:53 gkellogg has joined #wot 16:54:24 gkellogg has joined #wot 17:28:28 Zakim has left #wot 17:41:08 gkellogg has joined #wot 18:18:24 gkellogg has joined #wot 18:38:22 gkellogg has joined #wot 19:37:15 gkellogg has joined #wot 20:04:06 gkellogg has joined #wot 20:13:53 TallTed has joined #wot 22:01:09 gkellogg has joined #wot 22:19:32 gkellogg has joined #wot 22:34:57 gkellogg has joined #wot 23:17:58 gkellogg has joined #wot 23:34:36 gkellogg has joined #wot 23:57:07 gkellogg has joined #wot