IRC log of maturity on 2023-12-06

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16:07:26 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-maturity-irc
16:07:30 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:07:31 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), CharlesL
16:08:24 [CharlesL]
present+
16:08:49 [CharlesL]
scribe+
16:09:10 [janina]
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zakim, start meeting
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RRSAgent, make logs Public
16:09:23 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
16:10:01 [CharlesL]
Agenda+ New Business Agenda+ CSUN (should we meet) Agenda+ Working Draft end of year update Agenda+ Do we cite a particular WCAG profile as a conformance target? It seems reasonable to cite that WCAG profile A would arguably be in (Lionel’s question) Agenda+ MM Draft usability update (GitHub Issue 43) Agenda+ GitHub Issue #132 (see previous minutes) Agenda+ Github Issue #79 Section 3.3.2 Rating for evalu
16:10:02 [CharlesL]
ation - Support: Outcomes for optimize stage don't align with proof points coincides with issue 172. (Jeff was going to work on it. See previous minutes.) Agenda+ Github Issue #83 Section 3.7.2 Ratings for Evaluation - Culture: proof points vs. ratings mismatch Agenda+ Github Issue #85 Inconsistencies in Inactive ratings for various dimensions Agenda + Github Issue #89 ICT Development Lifecycle ratings outcomes a
16:10:02 [CharlesL]
ren't stated like the outcomes are in Silver
16:10:02 [gb]
/issues/79 -> #79
16:10:02 [gb]
/issues/132 -> #132
16:10:02 [gb]
/issues/85 -> #85
16:10:02 [gb]
/issues/83 -> #83
16:10:02 [gb]
/issues/89 -> #89
16:10:02 [janina]
Meeting: Maturity Model Teleconference
16:10:11 [janina]
Date 06 Dec 2023
16:10:21 [CharlesL]
agenda?
16:10:39 [janina]
Chair: Sheri
16:10:47 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: New Business?
16:11:43 [CharlesL]
... we are not meeting Dec 27th and Jan 3rd. We are meeting on the 20th.
16:11:52 [CharlesL]
topic: CSUN
16:12:16 [CharlesL]
Lionel, not sure if I will be there or not.
16:12:48 [CharlesL]
Janina: some groups may have a F2F at CSUN but still too early to tell.
16:13:25 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: I am not planning on going, but could jump on a cheap flight for a side meeting.
16:13:40 [CharlesL]
Charles: I will be at CSUN since I am presenting.
16:14:29 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: CSUN submissions has pasted due in September.
16:14:48 [CharlesL]
janina: lets circle back in January.
16:15:32 [CharlesL]
topic: Working Draft EOY update
16:16:35 [CharlesL]
janina: APA would like to update our title to drop "W3C" keep Accessibility Maturity Model. Sooner we can remove it from the draft W3C management will be happier.
16:17:02 [CharlesL]
Jeff: Can we include "IT or digital" in the title?
16:17:15 [CharlesL]
janina: That will be difficult to add due to charters etc.
16:17:58 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: We have a lot of small grammar fixes, Stacey made etc? or only the title change?
16:18:14 [CharlesL]
janina: We can include all the updates including all changes to the editors draft.
16:18:37 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: the editors Draft is in a good shape
16:19:19 [CharlesL]
RESOLUTION: participants here approve a working draft update publication once the title has been updated.
16:20:06 [IrfanAli]
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16:20:07 [CharlesL]
janina: Roy will take care of that. We can update working drafts without APA approval, so this is good publish updates often.
16:20:13 [IrfanAli]
present+
16:21:10 [CharlesL]
Topic: WCAG target number?
16:22:23 [sbyrnehaber]
q+
16:22:29 [CharlesL]
janina: ADAPT conversations, realized there is guidance in WCAG defines A/AA and AAA and A is the min. to be accessible but highly recommends striving for AA. Should we ask Maturity Model consider generic guidance look for conformance and strive for functional accessibility support.
16:22:44 [sbyrnehaber]
q-
16:23:00 [CharlesL]
... we can say this generically.
16:23:43 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: we deliberately left out WCAG versions. but will need to be carefully word smith. "including but not limited to..."
16:24:31 [CharlesL]
janina: could cut across multiple places the minimum is not enough. where this should go? Thats a good question. suggestions?
16:25:30 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: it doesn't belong in the dimensions, somewhere in the introduction. there is a section "scope" that seems to be one place 1.2.1 currently short 1 sentence.
16:25:48 [CharlesL]
... we mention you can do only 1 dimension.
16:26:16 [CharlesL]
..., since David is not here, I can do it with him. Janina agrees.
16:26:43 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: David and I will take this on.
16:26:55 [CharlesL]
janina: I will create a ticket and assign it to Sheri.
16:27:26 [CharlesL]
janina: Yes this satisfies the APA.
16:27:40 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: also satisfies Lionel concern
16:27:47 [CharlesL]
Topic Issue #43
16:27:48 [gb]
/issues/43 -> #43
16:28:53 [kline]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/43
16:28:53 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/43 -> Issue 43 Should "proof points" and "ratings for evaluation" sections be combined for clarity? (by jasonjgw)
16:29:49 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: google doc
16:29:55 [sbyrnehaber]
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Wrhomdc2gJWIkDPOveiH3_ig1bddTMonEhIDZIzohrc/edit?usp=sharing
16:30:23 [CharlesL]
... Stacy made this proposal. she is not here today.
16:30:35 [janina]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:30:37 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-maturity-minutes.html janina
16:30:44 [CharlesL]
... got rid of the table and replaced with a Narative.
16:30:53 [CharlesL]
... did we want to keep the table + Narrative?
16:31:31 [CharlesL]
... group agrees to also include the table, but the narrative changes look good.
16:31:52 [Lionel_Wolberger]
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present+
16:32:03 [Lionel_Wolberger]
rrsagent, make minutes
16:32:04 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-maturity-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
16:32:42 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I don't have a problem with this.
16:32:42 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: Jason's point is folks with cognitive issues it will help
16:33:10 [CharlesL]
Jeff: we do have the generic levels, and have those come after the proof points provides the context for those different levels.
16:33:33 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: Stacy's example are specific to this specific dimension.
16:34:31 [CharlesL]
... tell them what you are going to say, is intro, sayit is what Stacy has and then include the table at the end to reinforce it.
16:34:51 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I am fine either way.
16:35:34 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: need to create an issue for each dimension, I don't think we do this before the next updated working draft.
16:35:56 [CharlesL]
janina: we can have PR's but wouldn't approve them until Roy has released.
16:36:19 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: do we have anyone assigned to each dimension?
16:36:35 [CharlesL]
... do we want to revisit this?
16:37:40 [CharlesL]
... Suzy owns Support, Stacy Communications, we need K&S, Sheri owns ICT, Jeff Procurement,
16:38:03 [sbyrnehaber]
David owns personnel
16:38:18 [sbyrnehaber]
and when I say "own" I mean is responsible for making generic changes that are being applied to all dimensions
16:38:26 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I will take K&S
16:39:02 [CharlesL]
... I will maintain Procurement and can take on K&S
16:39:34 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: Own means generic stuff for now. anyone else for K&S?
16:39:44 [CharlesL]
... what about Culture?
16:40:11 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: I will take Culture for now.
16:40:57 [CharlesL]
... someone should update ticket #43. Stacy does currently I will ask her to update this based on minutes
16:40:58 [gb]
/issues/43 -> #43
16:41:15 [CharlesL]
topic: issue #132
16:41:16 [gb]
/issues/132 -> #132
16:41:40 [sbyrnehaber]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/132
16:41:40 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/132 -> Issue 132 User Research is not User Experience (by jake-abma)
16:42:31 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: asking for clarification of the language. which I agree with
16:42:50 [CharlesL]
Jeff: its just a title change ?
16:43:13 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: and a little bit of the content. we want to make the title match the content and include experience not just resear.
16:43:42 [CharlesL]
... section 3.4.1.3
16:44:07 [CharlesL]
... so this is mine. Assign this ticket to me and I will take care of.
16:44:34 [CharlesL]
Jeff: this was originally from KH not sure who this is. someone emailed in a comment.
16:45:22 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: might be Karen Hockins. with Level Access if she is still there.
16:46:10 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: I will reach out to her with a draft to see if this addresses her concerns.
16:46:40 [CharlesL]
topic: Issue 79
16:47:03 [sbyrnehaber]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/79
16:47:03 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/79 -> CLOSED Issue 79 Section 3.3.2 Rating for evaluation - Support: Outcomes for optimize stage don't align with proof points (by maryjom)
16:47:38 [sbyrnehaber]
replaced by 198: https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/198
16:47:38 [gb]
https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/198 -> Issue 198 Support Optimize Outcomes Statement Needs Revision to Align with Dimension Goals. Replaces Issue #79 (by jeffkline)
16:47:43 [CharlesL]
Jeff: we closed that and moved to 198 needs to reflect the general purpose of the dimension.
16:48:05 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: added to the issue or link to a google doc to discuss it further.
16:48:16 [CharlesL]
Jeff: I can add it in there.
16:48:28 [kline]
Proposed language: IT Accessibility support for all internal and external IT is complete. Accessible self-help features are fully integrated for all IT. Training programs are in place for IT support staff are trained and deployed. Continuous improvement plans ongoing.
16:48:41 [CharlesL]
... This is the optimized.
16:49:28 [CharlesL]
... this is in the support Dimension.
16:49:53 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: ok. That implies to be optimized self help is mandatory.
16:50:22 [CharlesL]
Jeff: maybe need to tweak it a little more, some things self help others not depending. need to capture something regarding self help.
16:50:41 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: support is available to all personal not what kind of help.
16:51:00 [CharlesL]
... second sentence needs tweaking.
16:51:29 [sbyrnehaber]
Instead of "Accessible self-help features are fully integrated for all IT" how about "Help available to all personnel for all ICT"
16:51:37 [sbyrnehaber]
and change IT to ICT in the other sentences
16:52:00 [CharlesL]
... two suggested changes as listed above
16:52:04 [CharlesL]
Jeff: OK.
16:53:08 [CharlesL]
... I will edit and push that before Roy freezes
16:53:40 [CharlesL]
sbyrnehaber: there may be a changes freeze date in W3C for holidays. Sheri will check
16:55:00 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, draft minutes
16:55:02 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/06-maturity-minutes.html CharlesL