15:00:11 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl
15:00:15 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-epub-fxl-irc
15:00:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:00:16 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), gpellegrino
15:01:06 <gpellegrino> meeting: FXL TF, 4 Dec 2023
15:01:06 <gautierchomel> gautierchomel has joined #epub-fxl
15:01:25 <gpellegrino> present+
15:01:31 <CharlesL2> CharlesL2 has joined #epub-fxl
15:01:46 <CharlesL2> present+
15:02:41 <SimonPRH> SimonPRH has joined #epub-fxl
15:02:49 <SimonPRH> present+
15:02:58 <gautierchomel> present§
15:03:03 <gautierchomel> present+
15:03:07 <JonasLillqvist> JonasLillqvist has joined #epub-fxl
15:03:36 <gautierchomel> https://www.w3.org/WAI/EO/wiki/Minute_Taking_Tips
15:03:45 <Rachel_Osolen> Scribe+
15:04:01 <CircularKen> CircularKen has joined #epub-fxl
15:04:24 <CircularKen> present+
15:05:11 <Rachel_Osolen> First item in agenda to discuss content of current document. Has not been updated yet. Waiting for Wendy. Would like to recap last weeks discussion
15:05:46 <Rachel_Osolen> If time discussion of switiching ot reflowable and reversable
15:06:07 <gpellegrino>     * What level of WCAG to base the document on?
15:06:46 <Hadrien> Hadrien has joined #epub-fxl
15:06:51 <Rachel_Osolen> on last call we agreed to base document on WCAG level A and all the criteria from AA that is possible
15:06:53 <Hadrien> present+
15:06:55 <gpellegrino>     * Reorganize the whole document based on the WCAG Success Criteria?
15:07:29 <tzviya> tzviya has joined #epub-fxl
15:08:13 <Rachel_Osolen> We agreed to reorganize doc based on groups of success criteria. Starting with these groups and adding what is tricky in FXL and maybe having index at end
15:08:30 <gpellegrino>     * Find a way to indicate how difficult it may be for an EPUB Creator without extensive code knowledge to be able to satisfy a Success Criteria?
15:08:38 <jgriggs_prh> jgriggs_prh has joined #epub-fxl
15:09:13 <jgriggs_prh> present+
15:09:25 <gpellegrino> https://www.w3.org/WAI/GL/wiki/WCAG_2.x_Priority_levels_discussion
15:09:36 <Rachel_Osolen> We had some discussion, but did not arrive to resolution. To integrate it with outside supplier is tricky and this is hard to express. There is a doc linked about where similar work was done
15:10:25 <Rachel_Osolen> This includes information if it is easy or not. Easy is something that can be done without too much effort. out of Success criteria that includes 40 hours of training
15:10:27 <gpellegrino>     * Reinsert a section on font-face choices?
15:11:19 <Rachel_Osolen> We agreed that this should not adjust to one font face to another, but maybe include info on how font-face influences readablitiy. and a note about how to embed font faces
15:11:39 <gpellegrino>     * Is the use of multiple spans disruptive to assistive technologies?
15:12:09 <Hadrien> q+
15:13:09 <Rachel_Osolen> Charles reached out to eline reader. It is not disruptive to TTS. Clean code practice is still best practice. It can impact re-sizing font and font can overlap when resized
15:13:12 <gpellegrino> ack Hadrien
15:14:07 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: found example of organization makes FXL to reflowable. Found another example. When you have FXL and you have a side panel that displays extracted text similar to reflowable
15:14:55 <CircularKen> @hadrien can you spell or provide a link please to that frenhc compnay
15:15:09 <Rachel_Osolen> We should consider inviting companies to explain how they do this and why. It is a bit outside of what we do, but could be beneficial
15:15:13 <gpellegrino> storyplayr.com
15:16:25 <CircularKen> thanks (my internet connection is patchy today, sorry)
15:16:31 <gpellegrino> https://www.storyplayr.com/en/histoire/hansel-et-gretel/playr?p=1
15:16:43 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: Mobidys is in interactive epub, not sure about Storyplayr. Believes it is feasible with normal EOUB. Using epub with media overlays.
15:16:46 <gpellegrino> q?
15:17:35 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: looks similar to apporach to PDF. There is spec for standardization of PDF and some rules can me changes to reflowable.
15:18:56 <CircularKen> does it depend on reading order ste in FXL?
15:18:58 <Rachel_Osolen> Hardien: Readium does the same. Also works for Alt-text. It has been available sometime on mobile and reading web. Going to be stable soon. It is same code we use for TTS and works best with reflowable. Use for reflowable PDF and FXL
15:19:08 <CircularKen> *set*
15:19:36 <gpellegrino> q?
15:20:26 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: Reading Order is extremely important and surrounding tags is also important.
15:21:27 <gpellegrino> q?
15:21:35 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: in this case it is closer to screenreader than OCR approach.
15:22:33 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: Thinking htis approach is helpful for HTML FXL and may need some changes for SVGs and wont work for roster images (eg PDF) OCR approach may work as a starting point for those
15:23:32 <Hadrien> q+
15:23:38 <gpellegrino> ack Hadrien
15:23:41 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: user can read the same content or see the same content in FXL layout and reflowable in all adaptations. Tricky part is if user wants to use a note or highlight this would be difficult to sync. Even only in read mode it would be a great step forward
15:25:04 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: not necessiarliy impossible to do. The way it is done in Readium it is possible, not perfect.
15:25:54 <CircularKen> q+
15:25:56 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: storyplayr example with one side is book and one side is the reflowable that you can change
15:26:12 <Hadrien> q+
15:26:26 <Rachel_Osolen> Ken: thinks is it good, but is is worried about how the code is arranged.
15:26:26 <gpellegrino> ack CircularKen
15:27:36 <Rachel_Osolen> Ken: whenever you see a demo as shown, it is a demo document created. We need other examples to test it properly. Does like the idea, and has suggested for some time. It is mainly getting the document in order.
15:28:16 <gpellegrino> q?
15:28:18 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: has included Ken's request to highlight this important.
15:28:20 <gpellegrino> ack Hadrien
15:29:15 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: this is not a demo. it is a production website with a few thousand books to sell. It does mean they curated the content. But will well documented accessibility metadata you can easily select a good text.
15:30:41 <gpellegrino> q?
15:31:08 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: imagine reading environment with proper a11y metadata is set then the readr knows they can use these readers. General comment, FXL is not compatiable with reflowable. Not possible to transfer FXL into something it is not, but is option to do side by side, panel by panel, or a equivilant option.
15:31:33 <gpellegrino> q?
15:31:34 <Rachel_Osolen> Hadrien: media-overlay is similar to this idea. Both options will be necessary to help solve FXL issue
15:33:28 <Rachel_Osolen> Jonas: comment on document. Noticed in paragraph 2.1 Consideratsions for FXL development. The doc does not go into SVG on the document side, only more on reading system part. Either edit paragraph, or go into more about different ways to build content
15:35:01 <gpellegrino> q?
15:35:10 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: That sentence in question was written in begining, moved HTML code into another doc, agreed this sentence is not addressed. We should better write about other techniques (SVG and roster images in spin). Should include what is achievable based on what technique creater uses
15:35:39 <Rachel_Osolen> Jonas: in FInland, HMTL doc in spin but only image on page.
15:35:50 <gpellegrino> q?
15:35:53 <Rachel_Osolen> Gregorio: Hadrien has mentioned the same thing
15:37:48 <gpellegrino> q?
15:39:13 <gpellegrino> zakim, end meeting
15:39:13 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been gpellegrino, CharlesL, SimonPRH, gautierchomel, CircularKen, Hadrien, jgriggs_prh
15:39:15 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:39:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/12/04-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim
15:39:24 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, gpellegrino; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:39:24 <Zakim> Zakim has left #epub-fxl
15:39:27 <gpellegrino> rrsagent, make logs public
15:39:44 <gpellegrino> rrsagent, bye
15:39:44 <RRSAgent> I see no action items