IRC log of rdf-star on 2023-11-30
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:58:22 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
- 15:58:26 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-irc
- 15:58:30 [ktk]
- meeting: RDF-star Working Group Weekly Meeting
- 15:59:17 [ktk]
- Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20231130T120000/
- 15:59:18 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 15:59:18 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two metings: [1]
- 15:59:18 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion
- 15:59:18 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Review of open actions, available at [2]
- 15:59:18 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at [3]
- 15:59:21 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Issue Triage, available at [4]
- 15:59:24 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
- 16:16:00 [gkellogg]
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- 16:50:18 [gkellogg]
- gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
- 16:56:58 [AndyS]
- AndyS has joined #rdf-star
- 16:57:16 [gkellogg]
- gkellogg has joined #rdf-star
- 16:57:36 [eBremer]
- eBremer has joined #rdf-star
- 16:57:59 [tl]
- tl has joined #rdf-star
- 16:58:13 [rubensworks]
- rubensworks has joined #rdf-star
- 16:58:31 [olaf]
- olaf has joined #rdf-star
- 16:58:56 [niklasl]
- niklasl has joined #rdf-star
- 16:59:30 [fsasaki]
- fsasaki has joined #rdf-star
- 17:00:05 [ktk]
- Regrets: AZ, Dominik_T
- 17:00:07 [gkellogg]
- present+
- 17:00:11 [ktk]
- present+
- 17:00:13 [olaf]
- present+
- 17:00:14 [ora]
- ora has joined #rdf-star
- 17:00:19 [fsasaki]
- present+
- 17:00:24 [gtw]
- present+
- 17:00:29 [TallTed]
- TallTed has joined #rdf-star
- 17:00:30 [rubensworks]
- present+
- 17:00:34 [tl]
- present+
- 17:00:48 [doerthe]
- doerthe has joined #rdf-star
- 17:01:29 [pchampin]
- present+
- 17:01:31 [ktk]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:01:32 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
- 17:01:38 [ktk]
- RRSAgent, make log public
- 17:01:55 [ktk]
- Chair: ora:
- 17:02:00 [doerthe]
- present+
- 17:02:08 [ora]
- present+
- 17:02:17 [ora]
- chair: ora
- 17:02:26 [ktk]
- Scribe: doerthe:
- 17:02:33 [enrico]
- enrico has joined #rdf-star
- 17:02:36 [enrico]
- present+
- 17:02:40 [eBremer]
- present+
- 17:03:00 [Tpt]
- regrets for today meeting
- 17:03:13 [niklasl]
- present+
- 17:03:41 [TallTed]
- present+
- 17:03:42 [ktk]
- Regrets+ Tpt
- 17:03:43 [TallTed]
- s/Scribe: doerthe:/Scribe: doerthe/
- 17:03:45 [TallTed]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:03:46 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
- 17:03:52 [TallTed]
- regrets+ tpt
- 17:03:52 [AndyS]
- present+
- 17:04:15 [TallTed]
- s/regrets for today meeting//
- 17:04:17 [ktk]
- s/Chair: ora:/Chair: ora/
- 17:04:37 [ktk]
- https://www.w3.org/2023/11/02-rdf-star-minutes.html
- 17:04:45 [TallTed]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20231130T120000/
- 17:04:45 [agendabot]
- clear agenda
- 17:04:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two metings: [1]
- 17:04:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion
- 17:04:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Review of open actions, available at [2]
- 17:04:45 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at [3]
- 17:04:48 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Issue Triage, available at [4]
- 17:04:51 [agendabot]
- agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
- 17:05:00 [ora]
- q?
- 17:05:01 [TallTed]
- TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF-star — 2023-11-30 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/0a6aa6e3-635c-42c2-baba-938c76b6ef01/20231130T120000/
- 17:05:23 [TallTed]
- Zakim, open item 1
- 17:05:23 [Zakim]
- agendum 1 -- Approval of minutes from the last two metings: -- taken up [from 1 via agendabot]
- 17:05:29 [Souri]
- Souri has joined #rdf-star
- 17:05:41 [Souri]
- present+
- 17:05:43 [ktk]
- PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 2023-11-02
- 17:05:47 [eBremer]
- im not listed as present last time
- 17:05:58 [ora]
- +1
- 17:06:13 [ktk]
- +1
- 17:06:15 [gkellogg]
- +1
- 17:06:15 [rubensworks]
- +1
- 17:06:16 [olaf]
- +1
- 17:06:19 [doerthe]
- +1
- 17:06:20 [enrico]
- +1
- 17:06:21 [niklasl]
- +0 (was not present)
- 17:06:23 [TallTed]
- +1
- 17:06:26 [tl]
- +1
- 17:06:27 [pchampin]
- +1
- 17:06:46 [fsasaki]
- +1
- 17:07:03 [ktk]
- RESOLUTION: Approve minutes 2023-11-02
- 17:07:16 [ktk]
- https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-rdf-star-minutes.html
- 17:08:02 [draggett]
- draggett has joined #rdf-star
- 17:08:09 [ktk]
- PROPOSAL: Approve minutes 2023-11-16
- 17:08:13 [niklasl]
- +1
- 17:08:15 [doerthe]
- +1
- 17:08:16 [olaf]
- +1
- 17:08:16 [gtw]
- +1
- 17:08:17 [Souri]
- +0.5 (present only during the first half)
- 17:08:18 [tl]
- +1
- 17:08:20 [ora]
- +1
- 17:08:20 [rubensworks]
- +1
- 17:08:22 [TallTed]
- +1
- 17:08:24 [ktk]
- +0 (not present)
- 17:08:25 [enrico]
- +1
- 17:08:32 [gkellogg]
- +1
- 17:08:37 [pchampin]
- +1
- 17:08:41 [ktk]
- RESOLUTION: Approve minutes 2023-11-16
- 17:09:02 [ktk]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:09:02 [Zakim]
- agendum 2 -- Proposal for next week's discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
- 17:10:16 [doerthe]
- ora: I was lost after the last discussion. Not sure what to do next. I discussed with Adrian. We strongly suggest that we select a course that leads to completion of the work in the expected time
- 17:10:27 [TallTed]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:10:28 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
- 17:10:34 [doerthe]
- ora: but without closing door
- 17:11:56 [doerthe]
- ktk: Regarding Thomas' mail, I propose that we try to get into a clear direction. I do not want to open more doors. We should have something ready in summer next year
- 17:12:10 [doerthe]
- ktk: we can extend on that afterwards
- 17:12:25 [doerthe]
- ktk: that is ora's and my proposal
- 17:12:43 [ktk]
- q?
- 17:13:02 [doerthe]
- ora: we do not want to dictate a solution, but we want to finish the charter
- 17:13:39 [TallTed]
- s|https://www.w3.org/2023/11/02-rdf-star-minutes.html||
- 17:13:39 [TallTed]
- s|Approve minutes 2023-11-02|Approve minutes 2023-11-02, https://www.w3.org/2023/11/02-rdf-star-minutes.html|
- 17:13:39 [TallTed]
- s|https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-rdf-star-minutes.html||
- 17:13:39 [TallTed]
- s|Approve minutes 2023-11-16|Approve minutes 2023-11-16, https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-rdf-star-minutes.html|
- 17:14:00 [fsasaki]
- q+
- 17:14:04 [TallTed]
- q+
- 17:14:11 [ora]
- ack fsasaki
- 17:14:27 [doerthe]
- ktk: I was asked whether graphs are not allowed as a solution. The charter is on triple terms and we should discuss these first
- 17:14:42 [tl]
- q+
- 17:14:54 [ora]
- ack TallTed
- 17:15:00 [doerthe]
- fsasaki: I'd like to second that. I think a fast solution is important
- 17:15:56 [doerthe]
- TallTed: Even though the charter talks about triple terms, but it is possible for the working group to widen the scope. The charter is not binding in that way
- 17:16:01 [ora]
- ack tl
- 17:16:11 [pfps]
- pfps has joined #rdf-star
- 17:16:16 [fsasaki]
- s/is important/is important also to assure that RDF keeps competitive to other graph related approaches/
- 17:16:27 [TallTed]
- q+
- 17:16:39 [ora]
- q+
- 17:16:51 [pfps]
- present+
- 17:17:17 [doerthe]
- tl: I can reduce nested graphs to nested triples. I would like to discuss the possible problems about graph terms. I am not convinced that they are that big. I would like to do that in seperate meeting
- 17:17:27 [ora]
- ack TallTed
- 17:17:45 [pfps]
- I am totally unconvinced that using nested graphs is "for free". Where is the complete proposal for this?
- 17:17:59 [doerthe]
- tl: My plan was not to go hijack the group to solve the named graph issues, but I think that graphs and triples are related
- 17:18:16 [ora]
- ack ora
- 17:18:52 [doerthe]
- TallTed: even though graphs and triples are similar froma philosophical point of view, they technically differ
- 17:19:32 [doerthe]
- ora: I would like people to think about which compromises they would accept to prepare for next week
- 17:19:43 [TallTed]
- +1 "can I live with this?" is a key question for each proposal
- 17:20:28 [AndyS]
- q+
- 17:20:39 [doerthe]
- ora: do we all agree on that we want to talk about graph terms vs. triple terms and possible compromises next week?
- 17:20:52 [gkellogg]
- q+
- 17:20:54 [ora]
- ack AndyS
- 17:20:56 [doerthe]
- ora: I really hope to reach a decision next week
- 17:21:25 [pchampin]
- +1 to AndyS
- 17:21:30 [doerthe]
- AndaS: could we make sure that all material is available long before the meeting (24h?)
- 17:21:54 [doerthe]
- gKellog: I second that, especially having the time difference in mind
- 17:22:01 [AndyS]
- s/AndaS/AndyS/
- 17:22:02 [olaf]
- s/AndaS:/AndyS:/
- 17:22:37 [doerthe]
- gkellog: we should also think about how we deal with the Christmas break and how we do planning
- 17:22:50 [olaf]
- s/gKellog:/gkellogg:/
- 17:22:51 [AndyS]
- s/24/48/
- 17:22:54 [ktk]
- q?
- 17:23:02 [tl]
- q+
- 17:23:04 [ora]
- ack gkellogg
- 17:23:09 [ora]
- ack tl
- 17:23:09 [olaf]
- s/gkellog:/gkellogg:/
- 17:23:15 [TallTed]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:23:16 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
- 17:23:22 [gkellogg]
- s/gKellogg:/gkellogg:/
- 17:23:30 [doerthe]
- tl: so we won't have the discussion about named graphs next week?
- 17:23:52 [doerthe]
- tl: I would like to have the discussion without pressure
- 17:24:37 [doerthe]
- ora: we could discuss through the mailing list and in the meeting
- 17:25:02 [doerthe]
- ora: I really want to reach a decision
- 17:25:10 [ora]
- q?
- 17:25:14 [pfps`]
- pfps` has joined #rdf-star
- 17:25:22 [doerthe]
- ora: that includes that we take a decision as a group at some point
- 17:25:34 [ktk]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:25:34 [Zakim]
- agendum 3 -- Review of open actions, available at -- taken up [from 2]
- 17:25:44 [ktk]
- https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
- 17:25:52 [pchampin]
- q+
- 17:26:11 [pchampin]
- https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/84
- 17:26:11 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/84 -> Action 84 1.1 specs should reference 1.2 versions (on pchampin)
- 17:27:26 [pfps`]
- q+ to talk about my aciton
- 17:27:26 [doerthe]
- pchampin: I investigated on https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/84 which was about links to latest versions
- 17:27:38 [pfps`]
- s/aciton/action/
- 17:27:50 [doerthe]
- pchampin: the links will be changed
- 17:28:51 [doerthe]
- pfps: I worked on updating the use cases. I worked on it and will continue today
- 17:29:42 [ora]
- q?
- 17:29:47 [pchampin]
- q-
- 17:29:55 [ora]
- ack pfps`
- 17:29:55 [Zakim]
- pfps`, you wanted to talk about my aciton
- 17:30:00 [ktk]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:30:00 [Zakim]
- agendum 4 -- Review of pull requests, available at -- taken up [from 3]
- 17:30:09 [olaf]
- q+
- 17:30:09 [ktk]
- https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
- 17:30:18 [ora]
- ack olaf
- 17:30:49 [doerthe]
- olaf: There is an open request 1032, will you have a look at it Andy?
- 17:30:57 [doerthe]
- AndyS: yes
- 17:31:13 [pchampin]
- s|1032|w3c/sparql-query#132
- 17:31:14 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/sparql-query/issues/132 -> Pull Request 132 More accurate definition of the Group operator (by hartig) [spec:editorial]
- 17:31:55 [AndyS]
- Apologies for my tardiness on query#132
- 17:31:56 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/query/issues/132 -> Issue 132 [not found]
- 17:31:57 [olaf]
- q+
- 17:32:02 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: there is a test for quads I added, if there is no objection, I will merge
- 17:32:44 [pchampin]
- s/a test for quads/tests for text-direction in n-quads, turtle and trig
- 17:33:29 [doerthe]
- olaf: What do we do for SPARQL 1.2 tests? how do we proceed?
- 17:33:50 [doerthe]
- AndyS: are these tests for the repository?
- 17:34:22 [ktk]
- q?
- 17:34:32 [ktk]
- ack olaf
- 17:34:37 [gkellogg]
- q?
- 17:34:44 [doerthe]
- AndyS: there is a directory for it which is empty, we can start to fill it. We can follow the structure of the old tests
- 17:35:12 [doerthe]
- olaf: do we add the old tests there as well?
- 17:35:24 [doerthe]
- AndyS: Only the new ones
- 17:36:08 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: what do we do with the tests from [please help]
- 17:36:57 [doerthe]
- AndyS: these are premature, we should not add them now
- 17:37:51 [doerthe]
- AndyS: all tests need to be manually checked
- 17:38:04 [doerthe]
- ora: can we deprecate tests if needed?
- 17:38:35 [AndyS]
- s/[please help]/RDF-star Community Group/
- 17:39:17 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: I would add some tags, but from experience, that can cause confusion
- 17:39:37 [niklasl]
- q+
- 17:39:46 [ora]
- ack niklasl
- 17:40:21 [doerthe]
- niklasl: we should for sure add tests for the things we change
- 17:40:59 [ktk]
- Zakim, next item
- 17:40:59 [Zakim]
- agendum 5 -- Issue Triage, available at -- taken up [from 4]
- 17:41:02 [ktk]
- https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
- 17:41:47 [doerthe]
- ora: how do we do the triage?
- 17:42:40 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: we wanted to focus on the tasks with "needs discussion" tags
- 17:44:00 [ora]
- q?
- 17:44:16 [pchampin]
- subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-csv-tsv/issues/10
- 17:44:17 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/sparql-results-csv-tsv/issues/10 -> Issue 10 TSV: state how to handle special characters in strings (by Tpt) [needs discussion]
- 17:45:02 [pchampin]
- discovering this issue right now, but I tend to agree with AndyS
- 17:46:19 [AndyS]
- Action: AndyS to follow-up on on issue TSV#10
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- I created -> issue #10 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-common/issues/10
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- but I could not add the "action" label.
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/rdf-common.
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- I created -> issue #11 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-common/issues/11
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- but I could not add the "action" label.
- 17:46:26 [gb]
- That probably means I don't have push permission on w3c/rdf-common.
- 17:47:07 [doerthe]
- AndyS: I will have a look at the issue
- 17:47:08 [gkellogg]
- Now in https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/98
- 17:47:08 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/98 -> Action 98 follow-up on on issue TSV#10 (on ) due 2023-12-07
- 17:47:33 [pfps`]
- q+
- 17:47:39 [pchampin]
- subtopic: https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/55
- 17:47:39 [gb]
- https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/issues/55 -> Issue 55 Compare language tags after normalizing to lower case. (by gkellogg) [needs discussion] [spec:enhancement]
- 17:48:06 [pfps`]
- q-
- 17:48:25 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: the issue is that language tags can be done differently by different implementations
- 17:48:38 [Souri]
- In Oracle, we lowercase it.
- 17:48:52 [doerthe]
- ora: do we know what the major implementations do with the issue
- 17:50:37 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: we do not need to fix that in the abstract syntax
- 17:50:57 [pchampin]
- q+
- 17:51:15 [doerthe]
- AndyS: does that not break canonicalization?
- 17:51:26 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: yes it would
- 17:51:55 [niklasl]
- q+
- 17:51:56 [AndyS]
- Ontotext GraphDB uses RFC formatting.
- 17:53:11 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: we could leave it open for serialisations and fix it in the abstract syntax
- 17:53:42 [doerthe]
- ora: Are the issues about comparisons or storage?
- 17:54:00 [doerthe]
- gkellogg: comparison is case-insensitve
- 17:54:45 [doerthe]
- AndyS: we could say within a concrete system the representation should be consistent
- 17:55:06 [ora]
- ack pchampin
- 17:56:03 [niklasl]
- q-
- 17:56:53 [doerthe]
- pchampin: I wanted to suggest the same as Andy just did. We should only say that two literals only differing in lower vs. upper case letters in their language tags should be the same without dictating what this needs to be
- 17:57:15 [ora]
- ack niklasl
- 17:57:25 [tl]
- q+
- 17:57:29 [doerthe]
- pchampin: we can add that there can be a canonical case
- 17:57:41 [ora]
- ack tl
- 17:57:49 [doerthe]
- tl: I would like to have a semantic task force
- 17:58:57 [TallTed]
- tomorrow currently shows as cancelled. but I will join if it happens. https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/6d0cd306-0be8-4267-865a-6272cc8d9da4/20231201T100000/
- 17:59:00 [doerthe]
- enrico: If you want, we can have a meeting. I wanted to write a very concise proposal as well covering the minimal requirements
- 17:59:21 [ktk]
- RRSAgent, draft minutes
- 17:59:22 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
- 18:00:09 [doerthe]
- enrico: I want to propose two possibilities, we could discuss
- 18:00:47 [doerthe]
- enrico: I can de-cancel tomorrow's meeting
- 18:00:56 [olaf]
- olaf has left #rdf-star
- 18:01:42 [doerthe]
- scribe-
- 18:01:49 [doerthe]
- not sure, I can join tomorrow
- 18:10:12 [ktk]
- RRSAgent, leave
- 18:10:12 [RRSAgent]
- I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-actions.rdf :
- 18:10:12 [RRSAgent]
- ACTION: AndyS to follow-up on on issue TSV#10 [1]
- 18:10:12 [RRSAgent]
- recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/11/30-rdf-star-irc#T17-46-19
- 18:10:15 [gb]
- Created -> action #99 https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/99