IRC log of wot-td on 2023-11-22
Timestamps are in UTC.
- 15:06:10 [RRSAgent]
- RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
- 15:06:15 [RRSAgent]
- logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-irc
- 15:06:18 [kaz]
- meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
- 15:09:28 [cris__]
- cris__ has joined #wot-td
- 15:09:58 [kaz]
- present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Cristiano_Aguzzi, Daniel_Peintner, Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato, Michael_Koster, Jan_Romann
- 15:14:24 [kaz]
- chair: Ege, Koster
- 15:14:38 [kaz]
- agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#November_22.2C_2023
- 15:15:05 [luca_barbato]
- scribenick: luca_barbato
- 15:16:08 [kaz]
- present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
- 15:16:26 [kaz]
- present+ Klaus_Hartke
- 15:16:28 [luca_barbato]
- topic: Minutes
- 15:16:42 [luca_barbato]
- ege: Already reviewed and sent to the mailinglist
- 15:16:52 [kaz]
- i|Alre|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/11/15-wot-td-minutes.html Nov-15|
- 15:17:29 [kaz]
- q+
- 15:18:25 [luca_barbato]
- kaz: We also need to review the TPAC coordination call
- 15:18:27 [kaz]
- https://www.w3.org/2023/11/02-wot-td-minutes.html
- 15:19:07 [kaz]
- s/https/-> https/
- 15:19:17 [kaz]
- s/html/html Nov-2 TD coordination call/
- 15:19:21 [kaz]
- q-
- 15:19:25 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 15:19:53 [kaz]
- present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
- 15:20:06 [luca_barbato]
- ege: We can also approve this one with a small change
- 15:20:12 [luca_barbato]
- topic: TD Call slot
- 15:20:31 [luca_barbato]
- ege: I sent an email and a doodle and received feedback
- 15:20:57 [luca_barbato]
- ege: We'll use the new slots from the next year
- 15:21:09 [kaz]
- -> https://doodle.com/meeting/organize/id/dwkzgZrd?authToken=ZWdlLmtvcmthbkBzaWVtZW5zLmNvbTtFZ2UgS29ya2Fu.40rBapNd9VX0cp35ud Doodle
- 15:21:14 [luca_barbato]
- ege: I contacted people that shown interest to join the call in the future
- 15:22:39 [dape]
- q+
- 15:22:54 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:22:55 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 15:23:08 [dape]
- ack dape
- 15:24:00 [luca_barbato]
- ege: The current slot is good for almost everybody
- 15:24:09 [luca_barbato]
- lu: If it needs be it is fine for me as well
- 15:24:37 [luca_barbato]
- topic: TD 1.1 Publication
- 15:24:50 [kaz]
- q+
- 15:25:02 [luca_barbato]
- ege: Kaz already did a first pass checking there aren't broken links
- 15:25:50 [dape]
- q+
- 15:26:22 [luca_barbato]
- kaz: If needed I can make so we can publish next week
- 15:26:30 [kaz]
- s/checking/using the Pubrules checker/
- 15:26:49 [kaz]
- s/broken links/any errors but still need a change log section/
- 15:26:52 [kaz]
- ack k
- 15:27:06 [Ege]
- https://w3c.github.io/wot-thing-description/publication/ver11/7-rec/diff
- 15:27:35 [luca_barbato]
- ege: <goes over the diff>
- 15:27:37 [kaz]
- s/kaz: If needed I can make so we can publish next week/kaz: I can create a Transition Request for REC right after this update is applied./
- 15:27:57 [kaz]
- s/https/-> https/
- 15:28:03 [kaz]
- s/diff/diff.html diff from Proposed REC/
- 15:30:42 [dape]
- q?
- 15:30:44 [dape]
- ack dape
- 15:30:49 [luca_barbato]
- ege: is there anything more to add or amed?
- 15:31:33 [kaz]
- q+
- 15:32:02 [luca_barbato]
- kaz: Did you edit index.html and then generate the other?
- 15:32:06 [luca_barbato]
- ege: Yes
- 15:33:00 [luca_barbato]
- topic: Binding Templates
- 15:33:16 [Ege]
- ack k
- 15:33:24 [kaz]
- q+
- 15:33:26 [luca_barbato]
- subtopic: BACnet
- 15:34:18 [kaz]
- i/Binding/kaz: note that I'll update the pubdate of Arch and Discovery within the TD spec as I mentioned during the main call./
- 15:34:21 [kaz]
- q-
- 15:34:31 [kaz]
- present+ Dogan_Fennibay
- 15:35:09 [luca_barbato]
- dogan: I fixed discrepancies between http and ttl
- 15:35:24 [kaz]
- i|I fixed|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/318 PR 318 - Draft: BACnet protocol binding improvements|
- 15:35:33 [kaz]
- rrsagent, make log public
- 15:35:37 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:35:38 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 15:36:15 [luca_barbato]
- dogan: I doublechecked BACnet and removed covPeriod since it cannot be influenced by the TD
- 15:37:21 [kaz]
- s/ack k//
- 15:37:35 [kaz]
- i/note that/scribenick: kaz/
- 15:37:57 [kaz]
- i/I fixed/scribenick: luca_barbato/
- 15:37:59 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:38:00 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 15:43:18 [JKRhb]
- JKRhb has joined #wot-td
- 15:45:56 [luca_barbato]
- q+
- 15:48:45 [luca_barbato]
- <patch reviewed, comments noted in the PR>
- 15:48:51 [luca_barbato]
- ack
- 15:48:56 [luca_barbato]
- ack lu
- 15:51:21 [kaz]
- -> https://w3c.github.io/wot-binding-templates/bindings/protocols/bacnet/index.html#uri-syntax Web of Things (WoT) BACnet Binding Template - 4.1 URI Syntax
- 15:53:43 [luca_barbato]
- dogan: Why using bacv instead of bacnet as prefix?
- 15:54:30 [luca_barbato]
- ege: It was suggested by the json-ld liason, to avoid confusion between the schemas and the prefix
- 15:54:51 [luca_barbato]
- s/json-ld liason/Manu Sporny/
- 15:55:55 [luca_barbato]
- dogan: Can we update the main document to link to this protocol binding?
- 15:55:56 [dape]
- https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/443
- 15:56:15 [luca_barbato]
- ege: Yes for now, in future we'll have a more structured process
- 15:56:41 [luca_barbato]
- chris: The modbus protocol binding needs to be updated to match
- 15:57:35 [dape]
- q+
- 15:58:07 [dape]
- acl dape
- 15:58:15 [kaz]
- ack d
- 15:58:20 [kaz]
- s/acl dape//
- 15:59:45 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/120 Issue 120 - Binding Prefixes - closed
- 15:59:50 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 15:59:52 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 16:01:06 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/119#issuecomment-1823043348 Issue 119 - Modbus Prefix - comment added
- 16:01:15 [luca_barbato]
- dogan: I'll prepare the PR to link to the main document and doublecheck the prefix
- 16:01:48 [luca_barbato]
- subtopic: Modbus
- 16:02:08 [kaz]
- scribenick: kaz
- 16:02:34 [kaz]
- s/Modbus/Modbus Type/
- 16:03:02 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/161 PR 161 - Well-know Media Types content paremeters
- 16:04:01 [kaz]
- (kind of long discussion)
- 16:04:18 [kaz]
- ek: protocol specific?
- 16:04:21 [kaz]
- ca: yeah
- 16:04:32 [kaz]
- ... content type approach
- 16:04:44 [kaz]
- s/t t/t-t/
- 16:05:14 [kaz]
- lb: confirm we should not use the content-type here
- 16:05:24 [kaz]
- ca: true
- 16:05:38 [kaz]
- ... but still need some discussion
- 16:05:51 [kaz]
- ... may be some corner cases
- 16:06:39 [kaz]
- ... the information is inside of the content-type
- 16:06:53 [kaz]
- [[
- 16:06:53 [kaz]
- {
- 16:06:54 [kaz]
- // ... other fields
- 16:06:54 [kaz]
- "content-type": 'text/plain;charset=UTF-16LE'
- 16:06:54 [kaz]
- "endianness"=BE // <-- what does it mean? we should not allow BE here.
- 16:06:56 [kaz]
- }
- 16:06:58 [kaz]
- ]]
- 16:07:24 [kaz]
- lb: if we want to add something customized, would get problems
- 16:08:33 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:09:05 [kaz]
- ... should look into where to put waht
- 16:09:08 [kaz]
- s/waht/what/
- 16:10:42 [kaz]
- ca: very low-structured data
- 16:13:25 [kaz]
- ek: Modbus uses binary stream, and endian to be specified
- 16:13:30 [Ege]
- q?
- 16:14:54 [kaz]
- lb: how to interpret the data?
- 16:16:02 [kaz]
- ca: three-step approach?
- 16:16:15 [kaz]
- q?
- 16:18:30 [kaz]
- ack k
- 16:18:53 [kaz]
- kaz: think this is a bigger problem for WoT about how to deal with binary stream data
- 16:19:07 [cris__]
- q+
- 16:19:45 [kaz]
- ... should not directly dive into Modbus sensor data quickly
- 16:20:06 [kaz]
- ... it's kind of like regenerating the mechanism like pack function from Perl or Python
- 16:20:56 [kaz]
- ca: should have some generic framework
- 16:21:23 [kaz]
- ... because the binary data may possibly be some media stream data
- 16:22:08 [kaz]
- q-
- 16:22:10 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:22:12 [kaz]
- ack c
- 16:22:17 [cris__]
- ack c
- 16:22:24 [kaz]
- ek: would like to close this PR without merging
- 16:22:27 [kaz]
- ca: agree
- 16:22:41 [mjk]
- mjk has joined #wot-td
- 16:22:43 [kaz]
- q-
- 16:22:49 [mjk]
- q?
- 16:23:36 [kaz]
- (closed)
- 16:23:51 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:24:06 [kaz]
- subtopic: Issue 293
- 16:24:23 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/293 Issue 293 - [Modbus-binding] type conversion based on byte and word order
- 16:24:56 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/293#issuecomment-1671064223 specifically Sebastian's comment including a list of bit order variations
- 16:25:07 [kaz]
- ek: this is a list of existing variations
- 16:25:11 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:25:28 [kaz]
- ... Siemens' SayWoT has three variations
- 16:25:36 [kaz]
- [[
- 16:25:45 [kaz]
- modbus:type (string): integer/int, uint, boolean, number/float, string
- 16:25:45 [kaz]
- modbus:wordOrder (string): "HighWordFirst", HighWordFirst, LowWordFirst
- 16:25:45 [kaz]
- modbus:endian (string): "bigendian", "bigendian", "littleendian"
- 16:25:46 [kaz]
- ]]
- 16:26:04 [kaz]
- ek: if we go for this direction, there is some library
- 16:26:26 [kaz]
- ... we need to make decision
- 16:26:31 [kaz]
- q?
- 16:26:34 [cris__]
- q+
- 16:30:47 [luca_barbato]
- q+
- 16:34:35 [kaz]
- ack k
- 16:34:39 [kaz]
- ack c
- 16:34:41 [kaz]
- ack lu
- 16:35:25 [dape]
- q+ to the 3 term approach would require to specify what combination is not allowed
- 16:35:50 [kaz]
- kaz: @@@
- 16:36:05 [mjk]
- q?
- 16:36:30 [kaz]
- dp: 3-term approach seems to make sense
- 16:36:58 [luca_barbato]
- the binding protocol for modbus has to support the protocol as it is defined, modbus-rtu is a wire protocol and modbus-tcp is a defined serialization of that in TCP
- 16:37:21 [dape]
- ack dape
- 16:37:21 [Zakim]
- dape, you wanted to the 3 term approach would require to specify what combination is not allowed
- 16:37:32 [kaz]
- s/the binding/lb: the binding/
- 16:38:13 [kaz]
- i/the binding/scribenick: luca_barbato/
- 16:38:30 [Ege]
- q?
- 16:38:31 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:39:34 [kaz]
- ack k
- 16:39:49 [kaz]
- kaz: I still have difficulty with this discussion
- 16:40:44 [kaz]
- ... if Siemens' sayWoT uses three parameters, modbus:tpe, modbus: wordOrder, modbus:endian to handle Modbus data, we should clarify possible data variations for Modbus systems in general
- 16:41:04 [kaz]
- ... that's why I suggested we clarify some more Use Cases for that
- 16:41:14 [kaz]
- ack k
- 16:42:03 [kaz]
- lc: we can't fit all the possible variations. just can fit integer/float
- 16:42:28 [kaz]
- ... so this would confuse people who have not used Modbus data
- 16:42:53 [kaz]
- ... we need to clarify the mechanism step by step
- 16:43:16 [kaz]
- ... also what to be handled by what
- 16:43:53 [kaz]
- ... we're solving interoperability issues
- 16:44:14 [Ege]
- q?
- 16:44:17 [kaz]
- ... Modbus world is very different from ordinary HTTP world
- 16:44:44 [luca_barbato]
- https://docs.rs/tokio-modbus
- 16:44:59 [luca_barbato]
- https://docs.rs/modbus/latest/modbus/
- 16:45:25 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:45:26 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 16:45:50 [kaz]
- topic: TD Next
- 16:46:08 [kaz]
- subtopic: Reorganization
- 16:46:32 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/work-items.md work-items.md
- 16:47:30 [kaz]
- ek: (shows the MD)
- 16:47:37 [kaz]
- ... there is a pullrequest
- 16:48:08 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1158 wot PR 1158 - Reorganization of TD Work Items as Separate Documents
- 16:48:35 [kaz]
- ek: splitting the content into several sub documents based on the bigger categories of the work items
- 16:49:40 [kaz]
- ... would make the document nicer
- 16:49:45 [kaz]
- (merged)
- 16:50:05 [Ege]
- q?
- 16:50:41 [kaz]
- subtopic: Registry
- 16:50:57 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/registry-analysis/Readme.md registry-analysis/Readme.md
- 16:51:25 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1150 wot PR 1150 - Expand analysis of "Custom Registry Mechanism Registries"
- 16:52:06 [kaz]
- -> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/35e45c8a0854851ffafa8172aa2baadfac144332/registry-analysis/Readme.md rendered version
- 16:52:26 [kaz]
- jr: (goes through the MD)
- 16:52:43 [kaz]
- ek: much nicer now
- 16:54:49 [kaz]
- ... for example, good point about media source registry
- 16:55:21 [kaz]
- ... also "first come, first serve" policy
- 16:56:59 [kaz]
- q+
- 16:57:11 [kaz]
- ack k
- 16:57:41 [kaz]
- ... would like to know about when the registries are created as well
- 16:58:00 [kaz]
- ... e.g., TTML registry
- 16:58:25 [kaz]
- kaz: to see if the registry is active?
- 16:58:28 [kaz]
- ek: right
- 16:58:44 [kaz]
- ... any objections to merge this PR?
- 16:58:51 [kaz]
- (none)
- 16:58:52 [kaz]
- (merged)
- 16:58:57 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:58:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 16:59:32 [kaz]
- topic: AOB
- 16:59:41 [kaz]
- ek: would like to talk about project management next time
- 16:59:54 [kaz]
- [adjourned]
- 16:59:56 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 16:59:58 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
- 17:06:24 [kaz]
- i/I still have diffi/scribenick: kaz/
- 17:08:27 [kaz]
- s/@@@/not sure if this discussion is really included in the scope of the WoT binding templates, because we're diving into the discussion about how to convert binary stream data (e.g., via Modbus protocol) to HTTP response./
- 17:08:29 [kaz]
- rrsagent, draft minutes
- 17:08:31 [RRSAgent]
- I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-wot-td-minutes.html kaz