14:54:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
14:54:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-irc
14:54:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:54:57 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), matatk
14:55:01 <matatk> agenda?
14:55:11 <matatk> Chair:	Matthew agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements agenda+	Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review agenda+	Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-requ[CUT]
14:55:46 <janina> regrets: Fredrik_Fischer, Niklas_Egger, Gottfried_Zimmerman
14:56:22 <matatk> agenda?
14:56:54 <matatk> Chair: Matthew
14:57:15 <janina> Chair:  Matthew
14:57:15 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
14:57:15 <janina> agenda+ Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html
14:57:18 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
14:57:21 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
14:57:29 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
14:57:29 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
14:57:29 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
14:57:31 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
14:57:34 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
14:57:36 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
14:57:39 <janina> agenda+ be done
15:02:23 <IrfanAli> IrfanAli has joined #apa
15:02:27 <IrfanAli> present+
15:03:16 <janina>  present+
15:04:04 <IrfanAli> agenda?
15:04:46 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
15:04:53 <PaulG> present+
15:05:58 <Roy> present+
15:10:18 <matatk> present+
15:11:48 <matatk> present+ Lionel
15:12:02 <IrfanAli> Scribe: Irfan Ali
15:12:07 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:12:07 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
15:12:08 <Dr__Keith> Dr__Keith has joined #apa
15:12:35 <Dr__Keith> present +
15:12:48 <Dr__Keith> present+
15:12:55 <matatk> rrsagent, make minutes
15:12:56 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-minutes.html matatk
15:13:08 <IrfanAli> zakim, close this item
15:13:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 closed
15:13:09 <Zakim> I see 10 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:13:09 <Zakim> 2. Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html [from janina]
15:13:13 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:13:13 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Open CfC Reminder https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0000.html -- taken up [from janina]
15:15:20 <IrfanAli> matatk: CFC is still open to comment. we thought it was well written spec which promotes accessibility. Janina highlighted something that we do support. we are currently waiting for the comments.
15:15:53 <IrfanAli> matatk: this CFC is open by end of today boston time.
15:16:47 <IrfanAli> janina: we do have shared my feedback with few people and they responded with an idea. perhaps finding another avenue to discuss about my comments.
15:17:40 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:17:40 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:02 <matatk> agenda?
15:18:06 <IrfanAli> Roy: there is nothing new from this week.
15:18:17 <Lionel> Lionel has joined #APA
15:18:18 <IrfanAli> zakim, close this item
15:18:18 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
15:18:19 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
15:18:19 <Zakim> 4. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
15:18:32 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:18:32 <Zakim> I do not know what agendum had been taken up, matatk
15:18:50 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:18:50 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
15:18:52 <matatk> zakim, drop item 4
15:18:52 <Zakim> agendum 4, A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review, dropped
15:18:56 <matatk> zakim, drop item 5
15:18:56 <Zakim> agendum 5, Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues, dropped
15:19:04 <matatk> zakim, drop item 6
15:19:04 <Zakim> agendum 6, new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html, dropped
15:19:08 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:19:08 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
15:19:24 <IrfanAli> PaulG: no new updates.
15:20:05 <IrfanAli> matatk: curious to know about some stuff that we discussed at TPAC.
15:20:23 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/wiki/Meetings/TPAC_2023#CSS
15:22:08 <IrfanAli> matatk: CSS working group shared document with a proposal (as per the link). please read this doc and let us know your opinion. following on this work is very interesting.
15:22:47 <IrfanAli> PaulG: it was discussed a while back. perhaps, they are following up on this.
15:23:47 <IrfanAli> janina: we should look into it on broader perspective and not just from CSS perspective.
15:24:13 <IrfanAli> matatk: we need track this. there are lot of issues with details and summary.
15:25:22 <IrfanAli> various stakeholders are working on this and feedback is important in-order to standardize it.
15:26:10 <IrfanAli> matatk: music xml is a use-case
15:26:45 <matatk> s/matatk: music xml is a use-case/janina: music xml is a use-case/
15:26:54 <IrfanAli> Lionel: I dont see any summary and details that you mentioned with the embedded details. we are talking about it at ADAPT
15:27:59 <IrfanAli> matatk: dont think it is a technique that we would use in well known ADAPT spec.
15:30:03 <IrfanAli> matatk: we have explainers for some specs which describes the design decisions methodologies. it is a good process to go through the explainer documents. we would be talking more about it in ADAPT calls.
15:30:58 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:30:58 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
15:31:37 <IrfanAli> matatk: after CFC, I did post my comments on WHATWG thread.
15:32:01 <matatk> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-apa-admin/2023Nov/0009.html
15:33:08 <IrfanAli> matatk: per the comment, Nik mentioned that we would reach out to APG, ARIA. may be they update the pattern at ARIA to match.
15:34:56 <IrfanAli> matatk: is there anyone who would like to helpmus with reaching out to APG team and ARIA team, and raising this issue with them.
15:35:06 <IrfanAli> PaulG: may be we can simply file an issue
15:35:29 <IrfanAli> matatk: need to learn how are they focus tracking.
15:35:35 <matatk> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/dialog-modal/
15:36:15 <matatk> There's also alertdialog (and maybe etc.)
15:36:15 <IrfanAli> PaulG: JS handlers which handles change. 450 lines of code could be simplified.
15:37:10 <PaulG> https://a11ysupport.io/tech/html/inert_attribute
15:37:47 <matatk> https://caniuse.com/?search=inert
15:39:27 <IrfanAli> matatk: inert attr is a new way of flagging the content cannot be interact with. you can do dialog with inert attribute with more ease. it seems a good idea. even if APG team wants to keep existing approach than they could still allow focus to leave
15:41:15 <IrfanAli> PaulG: inert version would be much better to manage the focus. general version of focus behavior was one version. but inert approach is much better for various use-cases
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15:41:54 <matatk> q+
15:42:26 <IrfanAli> ack matatk
15:43:13 <IrfanAli> matatk: I can three issues here. pattern needs to be changed, why dont we just use inert, what is the policy when we move to inert?
15:43:28 <IrfanAli> is anyone up for looking into any of those three issues?
15:43:29 <Lionel> q+
15:43:45 <IrfanAli> janina: I will continue looking into CC level discussion because we have something to resolve there.
15:44:00 <IrfanAli> matatk: it is important us to file an issue as a first preference.
15:44:29 <IrfanAli> janina: one of the concept that APT want to Rokus. we will have this discussion
15:45:30 <IrfanAli> PaulG: last update was 4 months ago. if we are talking about policy and decision, they have to update the explainer with more examples. may be they are within the timeframe and working on this.
15:45:36 <IrfanAli> janina: we shall findout
15:46:10 <IrfanAli> PaulG: I am happy to look at the implementation and can do little research about it.
15:47:07 <IrfanAli> Lionel: want to check about my understanding about trap focus. is there any workaround.
15:47:51 <IrfanAli> PaulG: there is a workaround but not always available. not a great experience. very large dialog could lead to cognitive problems
15:49:01 <matatk> scribe+ matatk
15:49:08 <matatk> IrfanAli: Escape key is a standard shortcut
15:49:18 <matatk> PaulG: Escape isn't required for an alertdialog
15:50:01 <matatk> IrfanAli: There seem to be a lot of gaps here still (e.g. a JavaScript alert).
15:50:15 <matatk> PaulG: An alert() would allow someone to get back to the browser's UI
15:50:49 <matatk> ... People forget to delegate platform options that appear, e.g. if they implement a custom context menu, they may forget standard things like copy, paste, print, bookmarks, ...
15:51:04 <matatk> ... That's a huge issue for people who may be trying to determine that they're not being scammed.
15:51:35 <matatk> ... Very important to allow people the tools to help themselves out of such situtaions.
15:52:09 <matatk> IrfanAli: Sometimes there's no way to escape from a dialog, e.g. a browser's save password feature.
15:52:43 <Lionel> Lionel has joined #APA
15:52:57 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:52:57 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, IrfanAli
15:53:02 <Lionel> +1 to looking at use cases that involve the Chrome and passwords
15:53:03 <matatk> q?
15:53:05 <matatk> ack Lionel
15:53:11 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:53:11 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
15:53:26 <matatk> New specs brewing in Adapt: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-adapt/2023Nov/0012.html
15:54:36 <IrfanAli> matatk: without giving much details, if you are interested in some interesting work, here it is. we discussed that during the TPAC at vancouver. we think we have got a good way to split the problem and tackle them.
15:54:53 <IrfanAli> matatk: ADAP is the place where it is happening.
15:55:16 <IrfanAli> zakim, next item
15:55:16 <Zakim> agendum 10 -- Other Business -- taken up [from janina]
15:55:23 <Lionel> +1 to the excitement regarding what we are doing in Adapt
15:55:39 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:55:39 <Zakim> agendum 10 was just opened, matatk
15:55:45 <matatk> zakim, close this item
15:55:45 <Zakim> agendum 10 closed
15:55:46 <Zakim> I see 1 item remaining on the agenda:
15:55:46 <Zakim> 11. be done [from janina]
15:55:49 <matatk> zakim, next item
15:55:49 <Zakim> agendum 11 -- be done -- taken up [from janina]
15:56:12 <matatk> s/ADAP is/Adapt is/
15:56:26 <IrfanAli> rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/22-apa-minutes.html IrfanAli
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17:12:26 <matatk> action @autosponge: Review APG dialog focus issues - due 6 Dec
17:12:27 <gb> Created -> action #339 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/339
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