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13:57:44 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-irc
13:57:45 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:46 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:58:30 <Wilco> agenda+ ACT Standup
13:58:32 <Wilco> agenda+ No meeting next week
13:58:34 <Wilco> agenda+ Audio element content is media alternative for text
13:58:38 <Wilco> agenda+ Iframe elements with identical accessible names have equivalent purpose
13:58:50 <Wilco> agenda+ Finalising FPWD
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13:59:26 <kathy> agenda?
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14:01:28 <catherine> present+
14:02:17 <Helen> present+
14:02:35 <kathy> present+
14:02:36 <Wilco> present+
14:02:39 <kathy> scribe: kathy
14:02:42 <trevor> present+
14:02:46 <kathy> zakim, take up next
14:02:47 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:02:56 <catherine> present+
14:03:03 <Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag/discussions/3549
14:03:28 <Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/aria/discussions/2078
14:03:38 <kathy> wilco: submitted 6 new rules for approval, 3 to AG WG, 3 to ARIA WG
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14:03:57 <kathy> ... 1 response recieved
14:04:39 <kathy> daniel: ACT Rules format first public working draft review
14:05:07 <kathy> ... FPWD doesn't need CFC to go ahead
14:05:37 <kathy> trevor: not much to report
14:06:15 <kathy> kathy: https://github.com/act-rules/act-rules.github.io/pull/2101/files#
14:06:30 <Wilco> Oh, good point, I also opened two PRs based on ARIA feedback: 2137 and 2139
14:06:38 <Wilco> Would appreciate a review
14:06:59 <kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/550
14:07:43 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
14:07:51 <kathy> catherine: reviewed rules from wilco
14:08:10 <kathy> ... will look at surveys due on 9th
14:08:42 <kathy> tom: not much to report
14:09:21 <kathy> helen: not much to report
14:09:39 <kathy> zakim, take up next
14:09:39 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- No meeting next week -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:10:07 <kathy> wilco: thanksgiving is next week, meet again in 2 weeks
14:10:13 <kathy> zakim, take up next
14:10:13 <Zakim> agendum 2 was just opened, kathy
14:10:23 <kathy> zakim, close item 2
14:10:23 <Zakim> agendum 2, No meeting next week, closed
14:10:23 <Zakim> I see 3 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:10:23 <Zakim> 3. Audio element content is media alternative for text [from Wilco]
14:10:32 <kathy> zakim, take up item 3
14:10:32 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Audio element content is media alternative for text -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:11:30 <kathy> wilco: continue review of responses from last week
14:12:19 <kathy> ... is this rule necessary? is there a diff between a media alternative for text and a text alternative for time based media
14:12:39 <kathy> ... seem to be the same requirements
14:12:47 <Wilco> https://www.w3.org/WAI/standards-guidelines/act/rules/afb423/proposed/
14:14:13 <dmontalvo> Kathy: It didn't but I think that was an oversight
14:14:26 <dmontalvo> ... We're trying to add it in in the next version
14:14:47 <dmontalvo> ... The part "Is clearly labelled as such" is difficult
14:16:12 <dmontalvo> Kathy: I don't think we saw that as a different. First we determine if it's a media equivalent and then we look at the clearly labelled  part
14:17:48 <dmontalvo> Kathy: This rule got a little twisted in my head that we are requiring anything and then it may not be clearly labled. But the label here may not be a requirement
14:18:30 <kathy> wilco: if remove "except when... and clearly labeled as such" from SC 1.2.1, it says the same thing
14:18:57 <kathy> tom: exception seems unnecessary
14:21:02 <kathy> helen: doesn't need to be a separate rule
14:22:16 <kathy> trevor: agree
14:22:53 <kathy> wilco: think this rule is unnecessary
14:23:11 <kathy> ... auido element content has transcript should map directly to 1.2.1
14:23:30 <kathy> trevor: main difference is the second expectation from this rule
14:24:02 <kathy> wilco: the other 2 rules should be deprecated
14:24:52 <kathy> tom: not exactly the same. looking for audio descriptions
14:28:08 <kathy> ... alternative for time-based media definition implies audio desc is required
14:29:41 <kathy> ... if video is alternative for text, background noise isn't needed
14:30:34 <kathy> wilco: media alternative for text definition says no more information than is already presented in text
14:31:28 <kathy> helen: audio that adds to the mood must be included in alternative
14:33:07 <kathy> wilco: composite rule is only for audio
14:34:02 <Wilco> PROPOSAL: Deprecate this rule, use Audio transcript rule to map to 1.2.1 directly instead
14:34:08 <thbrunet> +1
14:34:11 <kathy> +1
14:34:31 <trevor> +1
14:34:37 <dmontalvo> +1
14:34:39 <Helen> +1
14:34:49 <Wilco> +1
14:35:37 <kathy> wilco: helen is liaison to this rule
14:36:20 <kathy> zakim, take up next
14:36:20 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Iframe elements with identical accessible names have equivalent purpose -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:38:44 <kathy> wilco: Pass ex 10 has no accname, Fail ex 4 need to be fixed
14:40:32 <kathy> tom volunteers to be liaison
14:42:22 <thbrunet> tom.brunet@gmail.com
14:44:16 <kathy> wilco: jumping to conclusion - simpler rule could be "iframe has descriptive name"
14:45:04 <kathy> ... all automated tools are partially consistent
14:45:51 <kathy> trevor: we have semi-automated and manual implementations, why is it down to automated
14:46:16 <kathy> wilco: why not just ask for every iframe
14:46:34 <kathy> trevor: then missing the case for 2 iframes with same name
14:46:58 <kathy> daniel: same names to different sources could be a problem
14:47:25 <kathy> wilco: this came up with advertisements
14:48:01 <kathy> daniel: very subjective but could be more relevant if more than just ads
14:48:42 <kathy> trevor: if two iframes were named "vote" but could be very different things to vote on
14:49:55 <kathy> wilco: descriptive name could be considered when evaluating the iframe
14:50:58 <kathy> tom: definition of equivalent resource is too vague in rule. "same" or "identical" would be clearer. rule allows two different resources to be equivalent
14:51:41 <kathy> ... if rule says same title if same resources, would be better
14:52:12 <kathy> ... but then alot of pass exs wouldn't be valid
14:52:50 <kathy> ... the advertising one is wrong, not descriptive if they are different ads. should be able to distinguish between the two
14:54:59 <kathy> wilco: is this rule a meaningful addition to the ruleset?
14:55:00 <Helen> 0
14:55:10 <trevor> +1
14:56:03 <kathy> 0
14:56:05 <Wilco> PROPOSAL: Keep this rule and eventually add an iframe descriptive title rule
14:56:12 <thbrunet> -1
14:58:25 <kathy> daniel: pass ex 8, the advertising name, would not be descriptive
14:58:39 <kathy> tom: agree not descriptive
14:58:47 <kathy> wilco: think this is acceptable
14:59:05 <kathy> ... don't have enough control over content
14:59:20 <kathy> tom: if you have different urls you could
14:59:40 <kathy> ... two different urls, two different ad sources
15:00:51 <Wilco> s/tom.brunet@gmail.com//
15:01:04 <dmontalvo> rrrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:27 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
15:05:03 <dmontalvo> s/rrrsagent, draft minutes//
15:05:05 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:05:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/16-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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