14:25:05 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #adapt
14:25:09 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-irc
14:25:17 <Sharon> zakim, start meeting
14:25:17 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:25:19 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Sharon
14:25:45 <Sharon> meeting: APA WAI-Adapt Task Force Meeting 13 November 2023
14:26:05 <Sharon> rrsagent, make logs public
14:26:22 <Sharon> Chair: Sharon
14:26:25 <Sharon> agenda?
14:26:49 <Sharon> agenda+ Welcome, general updates
14:29:48 <Sharon> agenda+ Issue 240 discussion (Unicode / Registry) 
14:29:58 <Sharon> agenda+ Symbol Module Implementations: One-pager in HTML issue #247 https://w3c.github.io/adapt/Adapt-One-Pager/Overview.html
14:29:59 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
14:30:09 <Sharon> agenda+ well-known URI for accessibility proposal/discuss. include in Gap analysis (Lionel) https://github.com/w3c/adapt/wiki/Gap-Analysis
14:30:23 <Sharon> agenda+ A11y4Children follow-ups
14:30:33 <Sharon> agenda+ Recruiting
14:30:43 <Sharon> agenda+ User Agents and Symbols Implementations 
14:30:55 <Sharon> agenda?
14:56:01 <Roy_> Roy_ has joined #adapt
15:02:17 <matatk> matatk has joined #adapt
15:02:27 <matatk> present+
15:02:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #adapt
15:02:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
15:02:50 <Roy_> present+
15:02:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
15:02:53 <janina> janina has joined #adapt
15:02:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
15:02:55 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Welcome, general updates -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:02:58 <janina> present+
15:03:01 <janina> scribe+
15:03:06 <matatk> q+
15:03:21 <russell> russell has joined #adapt
15:03:27 <russell> present+
15:03:48 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: New Meeting Time
15:04:06 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Sounds like the core group is fine with Tuesdays at this same time
15:04:15 <Lionel_Wolberger> Sharon: Next week is Thanksgiving in the USA
15:04:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and in December the 2nd half starting the 11th I have vacation
15:08:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> RESOLVED: Task Force weekly teleconference will move to Tuesday 10AM Boston as of next week Nov 21sat
15:08:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Thanksgiving week meeting yes or no?
15:08:34 <Lionel_Wolberger> Sharon: No objection
15:08:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> RESOLVED: Adapt TF shall meet next week on 21-November
15:09:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
15:09:11 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:11:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Roy_: I will show the chairs and facilitators how to use the calendar
15:11:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
15:11:13 <Zakim> I see a speaker queue remaining and respectfully decline to close this agendum, Lionel_Wolberger
15:11:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> q?
15:11:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack matatk
15:12:00 <janina> janina has changed the topic to: Weekly WAI-Adapt Teleconference
15:12:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: (Matt notes the IRC topic was incorrect. Janina told us how to run /topic)
15:12:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
15:12:39 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Issue 240 discussion (Unicode / Registry)  -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:13:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: At the link https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240
15:13:32 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/240 -> Issue 240 Could we build symbolic annotations with existing Web standards? (by DuncanMacWeb) [i18n-tracker]
15:14:19 <janina> q+
15:15:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
15:15:11 <Sharon> q?
15:17:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: CookieCrook spoke of using polyfills
15:17:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... emojis can now be defined by stringing together different emojis
15:17:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... for example, a wmoan man and child make a family
15:18:06 <Sharon> ack janina
15:18:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Has authoring come up at all in this discussion?
15:19:55 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: There are hundreds of symbol sets now.
15:20:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... they have some overlap, as well as non-overlap
15:20:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... so given set A and set B, there will be symbols in both sets, as well as some symbols in "B" that are not in "A"
15:20:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... is that what you mean by authoring?
15:21:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: If we go to unicode what do we give website content creators to add as the code to embed (or markup) their content to deliver on the promise of personalizable symbols
15:21:32 <matatk> q+
15:21:58 <Sharon> q?
15:22:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... to be overly specific say whitehouse.gov wishes to add symbols
15:22:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... would they add unicode? We would still need the registry.
15:22:39 <Sharon> ack matatk
15:23:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Regarding authoring, I see the concern. It's about looking up the right concept and seeking the right ID
15:23:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... whether that ID is a BlissID or a Unicode value, we get a non-ambiguous ID
15:23:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: That's my point -- we would still need authoring support
15:23:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: Unicode does give a full textual basis for the character
15:24:13 <matatk> ack me
15:26:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: the issue is not the mapping of a single code point to a single concept
15:27:56 <Lionel_Wolberger> matatk: THe issue is that there is no clear delimiter. A string of code-points will not be clear
15:28:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... let's say you have code points A, B, C, D, E; you dont know if it is ABC and DE, or A and BCD and E
15:28:30 <Lionel_Wolberger> russell: No, they have a solution to delimeters
15:29:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the issue is that there is no symbol in Bliss Symbolics to match any arbitrary contstructed group of symbols A, X, Z
15:30:07 <matatk> q+
15:30:19 <Sharon> q?
15:32:14 <matatk> scribe+
15:32:17 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Personally struggling how to do a visual representation, and how to describe that nonvisually
15:32:31 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: We have several needs; unique and reliable identifiers.
15:32:34 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Don't recall Adapt wrestling aggregated symbol entities
15:33:08 <matatk> Lionel_Wolberger: The idea of aggregated symbols is new.
15:33:16 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Unicode is maintainted by whatever bodey, so our Registry would be more responvie; approved sooner and more able to provide new entity values more promptly
15:33:54 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Bliss symbols are community responsive, so unicode doesn't add value, it just another organization holding dissemination back
15:34:49 <janina> matatk: looking forward to the graphic Lionel and Russell develop to illustrate this
15:35:06 <janina> matatk: We are trusting Bliss to represent community fairly
15:35:37 <janina> matatk: Not sure how promptly other symbol sets catch up, or how BCI vs Unicode is a factor there
15:35:59 <russell> q+
15:36:07 <matatk> ack me
15:36:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> ack Lionel_Wolberger
15:36:22 <matatk> q?
15:36:35 <matatk> ack russell
15:36:37 <Sharon> ack russell
15:36:49 <Sharon> q?
15:37:09 <janina> russell: Unsure what experience with these communities among us on the call?
15:37:38 <janina> russell: Many other sets are full package solutions
15:38:51 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... ARASAAC is constantly adding symbols, depending on what the immediate need is
15:38:59 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... COVID drove the addition of symbols
15:39:12 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Bliss also get requests from device manufacturers
15:39:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... growth is organic and every symbol set grows at its own pace
15:40:45 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Want to bring us back to support for content creators/publishers; Without that how to do that?
15:41:01 <janina> q+
15:41:35 <russell> q+
15:41:53 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Recalls recently iphone showing up with all kinds of unicorns? How does that illustrate
15:42:04 <janina> russell: Possible, but not realistic
15:42:28 <matatk> q+
15:42:30 <Sharon> ack janina
15:43:31 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: We can take as an axiom, that Bliss Symbolics will likely never be capable of addressing all possible symbols, as even if it did encompass all symbols at a given moment,
15:43:47 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the next moment a new symbol may spring into existence that is not in BCI
15:44:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: With that in mind, all we need to do is give the reasoning as to why this is a good starting place
15:44:34 <Sharon> ack russell
15:44:35 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... and a sufficient mechanism to add to that registry
15:45:36 <janina> q+
15:46:19 <Sharon> ack matatk
15:48:51 <matatk> ack me
15:49:27 <janina> agenda?
15:49:28 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
15:50:04 <janina> zakim, take up item 4
15:50:04 <Zakim> agendum 4 --  well-known URI for accessibility proposal/discuss. include in Gap analysis (Lionel) https://github.com/w3c/adapt/wiki/Gap-Analysis -- taken up [from Sharon]
15:51:01 <janina> matatk: Have started from user perspective by writing an Explainer first
15:51:18 <janina> matatk: See three distinct needs; yielding three short specs
15:51:38 <janina> matatk: Main would be use of combo of well-known-uri plus relations to be used in a rhel
15:52:05 <janina> matatk: e.g. help for site, or help for in page page help
15:52:35 <janina> matatk: a11y statement is one obvious, but COGA has research for multiple destinations
15:52:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, who is here
15:52:52 <Zakim> Lionel_Wolberger, you need to end that query with '?'
15:52:54 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, who is here?
15:52:54 <Zakim> Present: matatk, Roy_, Lionel_Wolberger, janina, russell
15:52:56 <Zakim> On IRC I see russell, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, matatk, Roy_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharon, Mike5Matrix, sdd, Github, imlostlmao, justinestrada, gonzu_15, gb, trackbot
15:53:20 <janina> matatk: Second is taking a SAP proposal -- when at the A11y statement, what actually is in it?
15:53:40 <janina> matatk: Potential for specifying what's included in machine readable way, at least a note of what should be there
15:54:02 <janina> matatk: WKU isn't about content of what's in an a11y statement
15:54:50 <janina> matatk: Third is what we discussed with Reporting API PEOPLE -- what do we mean by "reporting" for a11y
15:55:17 <janina> matatk: either auto or semi-auto reporting tool that produces report from the DOM
15:55:54 <janina> matatk: Reporting also of "I'm a user having problem X" which may go to a different endpoint
15:56:03 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
15:56:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html janina
15:56:33 <janina> matatk: Expect to get these drafts out this week!
15:57:10 <janina> present= avilar
15:57:10 <Lionel_Wolberger> Abhinav: Are you proposing three different end points?
15:57:24 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, who is here?
15:57:24 <Zakim> Present: avilar
15:57:26 <Zakim> On IRC I see russell, janina, Lionel_Wolberger, matatk, Roy_, RRSAgent, Zakim, Sharon, Mike5Matrix, sdd, Github, imlostlmao, justinestrada, gonzu_15, gb, trackbot
15:57:39 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
15:57:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:57:48 <janina> avilar: thinking in terms of endpoints; we need reporting results which has at least two end points
15:58:07 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ Abhinav
15:58:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> rrsagent, make minutes
15:58:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Lionel_Wolberger
15:58:46 <janina> matatk: what goes into a11y statement that might be machine readable is not natively WKU; but we want to figure that out
15:58:46 <janina> matatk: Then there's what WKU is intended which we also need. All three are related.
15:58:55 <janina> Lionel_Wolberger: Yes, we need to timebox 240 plus WKU!
15:59:08 <matatk> present+
15:59:17 <Sharon> present+
15:59:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> present= Abhinav, Sharon, Janina, Lionel Wolberger, Roy, Russel
15:59:58 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+ matatk
16:04:36 <Roy_> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/personalization-tf/calendar/
16:05:06 <Roy_> https://www.w3.org/Guide/meetings/organize.html#calendars
16:17:55 <Roy_> https://www.w3.org/groups/tf/personalization-tf/calendar/
16:21:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> agenda?
16:21:34 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/adapt/issues/247 -> Action 247 Symbols Explainer Made Available as HTML Pages on GitHub (on ruoxiran) due 2023-10-30
16:31:45 <janina> zakim, end meeting
16:31:45 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Abhinav, Sharon, Janina, Lionel, Wolberger, Roy, Russel, matatk
16:31:47 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:31:49 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/13-adapt-minutes.html Zakim
16:31:55 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:31:55 <Zakim> Zakim has left #adapt
16:32:32 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:32:32 <RRSAgent> I see no action items