13:57:28 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wcag-act
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13:57:32 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:33 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
13:58:13 <Wilco> agenda+ ACT Standup
13:58:15 <Wilco> agenda+ CFCs from last week
13:58:16 <Wilco> agenda+ Next week WAI-Coop Symposium
13:58:18 <Wilco> agenda+ Audio element content is media alternative for text
13:58:20 <Wilco> agenda+ Iframe elements with identical accessible names have equivalent purpose
13:58:22 <Wilco> agenda+ Defining implementations
13:59:28 <trevor> trevor has joined #wcag-act
14:01:06 <Helen> Helen has joined #wcag-act
14:01:16 <Helen> present+
14:01:41 <thbrunet> thbrunet has joined #wcag-act
14:02:39 <trevor> present+
14:03:43 <thbrunet> present+
14:04:56 <Wilco> present+
14:05:08 <thbrunet> scribe+
14:05:09 <Todd> present+
14:05:11 <thbrunet> Zakim, take up next
14:05:11 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:05:34 <dmontalvo> present+ Daniel
14:05:47 <dmontalvo> Chair: Wilco
14:05:50 <thbrunet> Wilco: Did surveys for this week. Some rules in to the CFC, hopefully after today can send them to AG and ARIAWG
14:06:14 <thbrunet> Trevor: Just the surveys for me. Some changes for the implementations.
14:06:26 <thbrunet> Todd: No report.
14:07:16 <thbrunet> Trevor: Testing symposium went well. Those that were aware were nodding their heads and those that weren't familiar with ACT seemed lost.
14:07:33 <thbrunet> ... Feels like still somewhat a niche topic.
14:08:16 <thbrunet> Daniel: Some permission issues with AGWG, reviewed a PR. Acceptance from CSUN on ACT presentation.
14:09:12 <thbrunet> Helen: No report. Aim to work on user testing for label in name scenarios.
14:12:31 <thbrunet> Tom: Headings issue - NVDA and VoiceOver don't seem to handle it well, so, not clear the rule has value.
14:12:44 <thbrunet> ... Issue with one of the CFCs and definitions resolving. I'll also have some work conflicts in the future.
14:12:46 <thbrunet> Zakim, take up next
14:12:46 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- CFCs from last week -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:14:12 <thbrunet> Wilco: Three more CFCs. Anyone else have comments?
14:14:21 <thbrunet> ... otherwise I'll put in a resolution of accepted.
14:14:32 <Wilco> RESOLUTION: Accept CFC'ed rules as ready for the working groups
14:15:00 <thbrunet> Wilco: I'll open discussions with other groups
14:15:05 <thbrunet> Zakim, take up next
14:15:05 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Next week WAI-Coop Symposium -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:15:37 <thbrunet> Wilco: Checking availability for next week. W3C has a symposium that overlaps with this meeting.
14:16:40 <thbrunet> ... Will be skipping in two weeks for Thanksgiving, so, I think we'll try to run the meeting next week anyway
14:17:18 <thbrunet> Todd: I'll be out next two weeks.
14:17:24 <thbrunet> Trevor: I'm out 23rd
14:17:29 <thbrunet> Tom: Same
14:18:10 <thbrunet> Wilco: Meeting next week, not 23rd.
14:18:11 <thbrunet> Zakim, take up next
14:18:11 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Audio element content is media alternative for text -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:18:25 <Wilco> agenda?
14:18:59 <thbrunet> zakim, take up item 6
14:18:59 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Defining implementations -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:19:17 <Wilco> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/541/files
14:19:47 <thbrunet> Wilco: Editorial stuff from last time, that was resolved.
14:28:52 <thbrunet> Helen: Could we have a checklist? Hard to read
14:29:12 <thbrunet> Wilco: We'll later have an HTML version to review
14:31:20 <thbrunet> Tom: Tripped me up the first time why inapplicable would be satisfied, but it's accurate
14:32:55 <thbrunet> Daniel: Maybe a note with a better explanation?
14:33:08 <thbrunet> Wilco: Can we leave it as a comment to pick up later?
14:33:37 <thbrunet> Daniel: What's the relation between between 480 and this PR? not related?
14:33:42 <thbrunet> Wilco: Just syntax typo
14:35:22 <thbrunet> Tom: Would be nice to have the tool version pull from the report
14:35:29 <thbrunet> Wilco: It's on my todo list, would love to find help
14:35:52 <thbrunet> ... I want to say that this is ready then. Is that okay with everyone?
14:35:55 <thbrunet> +1
14:35:59 <trevor> +1
14:36:02 <Helen> +1
14:36:22 <dmontalvo> +1
14:36:27 <Wilco> RESOLUTION: Accept PR 541
14:36:46 <thbrunet> Wilco: I'll talk to Kathy about her PR
14:36:47 <thbrunet> Zakim, take up item 4
14:36:47 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Audio element content is media alternative for text -- taken up [from Wilco]
14:37:35 <thbrunet> Wilco: We need at least 5, but we'll go over what we have.
14:37:55 <thbrunet> ... First comment from Kathy pointing to open issue 1446
14:38:35 <thbrunet> ... There's a definition of streaming, but no test cases for streaming. We need an audio or live video stream that can be embedded in test cases, and we just don't have one.
14:38:42 <thbrunet> ... Anyone think that needs further discussion?
14:39:05 <thbrunet> ... Next, Q7 of survey.
14:39:53 <thbrunet> ... Proposes moving 1.2.1 to a secondary requirement.
14:41:15 <thbrunet> ... What do people think about removing the parenthetical about text alternative?
14:41:28 <thbrunet> Tom: If it's visible, why would it be a text alternative?
14:42:21 <thbrunet> Wilco: That is a little weird. What are we saying about images?
14:42:42 <thbrunet> Helen: Are we talking about link to a secondary file transcript?
14:44:08 <thbrunet> ... This is the kind of thing that can be confusing depending on context.
14:44:38 <thbrunet> ... Often issues are fixed via transcript, but that's not what we're looking for here.
14:45:22 <thbrunet> ... Often people are splitting content to a separate page because having it all in one place gets too cluttered. So, not necessarily wrong, but not what was intended when rule was first written.
14:45:34 <thbrunet> Wilco: Adding some notes in the conclusions.
14:46:03 <thbrunet> ... Need a liason.
14:46:10 <thbrunet> Helen: I'm doing something similar, so maybe I should
14:47:13 <thbrunet> Wilco: We need 1.2.1 added as a secondary requirement
14:47:53 <thbrunet> ... Need to adjust when alternative is in a different page or different page state
14:47:59 <thbrunet> Helen: Would that be a second rule?
14:48:15 <thbrunet> Wilco: I don't think so. I think we've done that as one rule before.
14:49:49 <thbrunet> ... In Audio element content has transcript, there's a reference to "through a link", but I think we've done this better on other rules.
14:50:25 <Todd> Todd has joined #wcag-act
14:50:27 <thbrunet> ... Back to the other comment from Kathy, regarding the parenthetical, does this need to be in the expectation?
14:50:56 <thbrunet> ... The question that arose for me was is this #text nodes, or could it be in an image with a text alternative?
14:51:16 <thbrunet> ... We really need to be clearer here about what we mean by text.
14:52:10 <thbrunet> Wilco: Moving to Trevor's Q7 comment
14:52:22 <thbrunet> Trevor: Kathy has a related comment below
14:53:16 <thbrunet> Wilco: e7aa44 is the composing rule. I have an open PR to open composing rules to the top of the rules page, but stuck waiting for me to have time
14:53:33 <thbrunet> ... I think we want to connect those up more directly and automatically
14:53:53 <thbrunet> Trevor: I put it as possible related because applicability had conditions on how the audio played, so felt related to me.
14:54:08 <thbrunet> Wilco: I don't mind having them, but just tangentially related.
14:54:28 <thbrunet> ... I wouldn't tie them, but if someone feels we should that's fine
14:55:08 <thbrunet> Trevor: I'm fine with not including them
14:55:11 <thbrunet> Wilco: Let's not then
14:55:59 <thbrunet> Wilco: Q8. I'd like to talk about whether we need this rule at all, but not sure that's a 4 minute conversation
14:57:21 <thbrunet> Helen: The 1.2 checkpoints seem straight forward, until you try to teach them
14:57:56 <thbrunet> Wilco: But, for 1.2.1 what's the difference between media alternative needs to have no additional information vs the text alternative needs to have all of the information. They seem like the same requirement to me
14:59:15 <thbrunet> ... Please have a look at this in particular for next week's meeting
15:02:08 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:02:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/09-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo