14:57:28 RRSAgent has joined #me 14:57:32 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-irc 14:57:33 Zakim has joined #me 14:57:51 tidoust has joined #me 14:57:57 Meeting: Media & Entertainment IG monthly meeting 14:58:00 scribe+ cpn 14:59:51 nigel has joined #me 15:02:42 present+ Kazuyuki_Ashimura, Francois_Daoust, Kinji_Matsumura, Chris_Needham, Hisayuki_Ohmata, Ryo_Nasuoka 15:03:44 igarashi has joined #me 15:03:48 present+ 15:04:25 ohmata has joined #me 15:04:32 agenda: https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Public/public-web-and-tv/2023Nov/0001.html 15:05:39 rrsagent, make log public 15:05:46 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:05:47 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:05:55 topic: MEIG Charter 15:06:04 cpn: has just been approved 15:06:16 ... for 1 Nov 2023 to 31 October 2025 15:06:25 ... no significant changes 15:06:36 ... using the latest template, and updated list of coordination groups 15:06:44 ... mainly maintenance 15:06:59 q+ 15:07:31 ack k 15:08:32 -> https://www.w3.org/2023/11/meig-charter-2023.html New MEIG Charter 15:08:49 q+ 15:10:04 Igarashi: If the group has a goal to produce use cases and requirements, we should include the deliverables in the charter 15:10:19 ack i 15:10:33 ... put requirements in to existing WGs or create new CGs 15:10:34 i/has just/scribenick: kaz/ 15:10:40 i/If the/scribenick: cpn/ 15:12:17 q+ 15:13:28 ack k 15:13:51 Topic: DVB liaison 15:13:51 topic: DVB liason 15:13:57 s/topic: DVB liason// 15:14:11 cpn: tx for your inputs 15:14:29 ... one from Timed Text WG focusing on subtitles 15:14:39 ... and then combined response from MEIG/APA 15:15:25 ... note that we don't have DVB on our official liaison list yet 15:15:50 ... we're waiting Andreas to work within the DVB side 15:16:23 Topic: Upcoming events 15:16:46 i|Up|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2023Oct/0510.html TTWG 15:17:03 i|Up|-> https://lists.w3.org/Archives/Member/w3c-archive/2023Oct/0580.html ME/APA| 15:17:07 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:17:08 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:17:15 Chris: upcoming DASH-IF call on MoQ, W3C participants invited to join 15:17:24 i/Chris/scribenick: cpn/ 15:17:57 ... Friday, 1 Dec 2023 at 16 UTC 15:18:07 q+ 15:18:15 ... what does "Media over QUIC" means 15:18:31 ack i 15:18:44 igarashi: what I learned about that 15:19:02 ... it will define the payload format for media, ISO BMFF and CMAF 15:19:15 ... they'll define a more lightweight payload format for codec layer 15:19:19 i/Friday/scribenick:kaz/ 15:19:28 i/it will/scribenick: cpn/ 15:19:35 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:19:36 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:19:48 ... Implication for W3C might be, for example, WebCodecs API might change if the API direclty accepts the payload format 15:20:06 ... Or if JavaScript retrieves media data from that format 15:20:07 chair: ChrisN, Igarashi 15:20:25 ... Also, could think of extension to MSE to receive that payload format 15:20:27 i/tx for your inputs/scribenick:kaz/ 15:20:29 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:20:30 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:20:36 [Also see the WebCodecs MoQ Media Format discussion within the Media WG during TPAC: https://www.w3.org/2023/09/11-mediawg-minutes.html#t04] 15:20:40 q+ 15:20:55 Chris: We did discuss at tpac about WebCodecs container format, there was a breakout session 15:21:05 s/tpac/TPAC/ 15:21:13 ... And a question there was whether to specify that in IETF or in W3C 15:21:40 ... IETF meets this week, so would be interesting to know how that conversation has moved on 15:21:44 [WebCodecs Serialization Format TPAC breakout at https://github.com/w3c/tpac2023-breakouts/issues/78] 15:21:47 q+ 15:21:50 ... This would be a Media WG topic 15:21:50 ack I 15:21:58 q? 15:22:01 ack t 15:22:21 Francois: Also, Open Screen Protocol, which transports media over QUIC, so there's another overlap there 15:22:34 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:22:35 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:23:08 Chris: It's good that DASH-IF organises this 15:23:34 ... After IETF we could follow up on the lightweight WebCodecs serialization format 15:24:07 ... also consider, what is the web compatibility story with MoQ? 15:24:40 Chris: The second event, is OSMART2, open source reference tools, organised 5G-MAG and DVB 15:24:54 i|upcoming DASH|subtopic: DASH-IF on MoQ| 15:25:06 i|The second|subtopic: OSMART2| 15:25:09 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:25:10 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:25:17 ... 5G-MAG is media focused, and have a close relationship with 3GPP 15:25:32 ... This event is about sharing information about software tools and reference implementations 15:25:42 ... W3C members are welcome to join the meetings 15:25:49 ... Two sessions over two days 15:26:05 ... They also invited a presentation 15:26:52 ... I thought of two possiblities: TTML/IMSC, there are open source tools 15:27:11 ... But also WebCodecs and WebTransport have demo code available from the WGs 15:27:46 ... So WC and WT maybe for future events 15:28:03 ... so following up with TTWG on IMSC 15:28:32 Topic: Priorities for 2024 15:29:05 ... Various topics, may not be everything 15:29:18 ... TV app development, with Chris L 15:31:01 ... Feature / capability detection, resolution for video plane and graphics plane, did it get support in CSS? Need to follow up 15:32:44 .. Launching TV apps, there are technologies like DIAL and Presentation API, so need to refer back to the docs to understand the developer need. Conversation with manufacturers needed 15:34:46 ... Met recently with APA WG, they pointed to needs on chapter navigation, so could be interesting to look more closely. Do we need a new data schema, how to integrate with a11y tooling? 15:35:13 ... Investigate then move to designing solutions in a separate group 15:35:52 ... Interlinear synchronisation, we can bring expertise to support defining requirements 15:37:29 q? 15:37:42 q+ 15:37:43 ... Accessibility for non-HTML, could collaborate on requirements 15:38:07 Francois: Immersive Web group looking also at this, they need to integrate with assistive technologies. There was some discussion at TPAC on that 15:38:50 ... It's the Accessibility Object Model (AOM), to provide hooks to the assistive tools. So there may be something worth coordinating on. I agree it's broader than TV apps using WebGL 15:39:35 Kaz: The APA WG would like to update their MAUR document based on our input. Maybe we can provide some use cases for that purpose, media handling with some improved and extended methods 15:40:44 ... I think, not only TV streaming, but potentially UI methods and user input/output devices could be involved, for example glasses type displays or handles, etc 15:41:50 Chris: Could organise through joint meetings, I don't know what the APA WG has planned 15:42:00 ... I'll follow up 15:42:14 q? 15:42:15 ack k 15:43:14 ... C2PA now has some wider industry interest and momentum, driven by current interest in generative AI - to distinguish real from AI generated images 15:43:45 ... They have a solution for images, and working on solution for live video 15:44:22 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:44:23 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:45:19 ... Could help if there's a need for browser integration. But they may not need our help if they want to progress that 15:45:47 ... Other W3C groups, Publishing BG, text and data mining CG 15:47:07 ... Media production, identified technologies, we'd be happy to facilitate conversation between tool vendors, anyone building editor apps 15:47:30 ... As with each of these topics, needs people in our community to help drive the conversation 15:48:32 ... Media metadata and timed metadata, presentation at TPAC from NHK and Daihei, we're open to continue to explore that 15:49:13 ... Media formats, next generation audio presented at last two TPACs, hoping there'll be a proposal in MEIG soon 15:50:32 ... Video formats for immersive media, may have come up in Immersive Web? Relates to metaverse as a use case 15:51:04 ... Web support needed for avatar encodigns and renderings? 15:52:07 ... HDR is an active ongoing topic, good progress towards Canvas support and proposals to CSS and HTML 15:53:00 ... Object based media may or may not have standards requirements, not clear that the companies involved are ready to push it 15:53:48 rrsagent, draft minutes 15:53:49 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz 15:54:33 ... synchronized playback - OSP, Apple presentation at TPAC, multi-device timing CG 15:55:35 ... In general, no shortage of subject areas, but are people in our community interested to help lead on any of these 15:56:23 ... Are there things missing? And who to connect with to move forward on any of these? 15:57:07 q+ 15:57:09 ... The Overview of Media Technologies document was a great initiative but hasn't been updated with more recent changes 15:58:09 ... Ideal if we could continue it as a living document 15:58:58 Kaz: I think this slide has enough important topics listed. Could categorise them. Horizontal viewpoint in general could include accessibility. Also thing about security and privacy more 15:59:18 ... Other technical topics, which include metadata and production, could be continue to be discussed 15:59:50 ... For that purpose, we should clarify the industry need from vendors and allied SDOs, and use cases and requirements 16:00:19 ... So need more active volunteers. Could ask participants about their interest 16:00:52 q- 16:00:55 q+ 16:02:11 ack k 16:02:21 Kaz: When we started rechartering discussion, we thought of doing a survey to get interested topics, maybe we can do that 16:02:37 Chris: We could work offline to design a set of questions 16:03:17 Chris: Any AOB items? 16:03:31 i/Any/topic: AOB/ 16:03:50 (none) 16:04:11 topic: Next call 16:04:37 Chris: December 5 16:05:05 [adjourned] 16:05:12 rrsagent, draft minutes 16:05:13 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/11/07-me-minutes.html kaz