Meeting minutes
<wendyreid> date: 2023-10-30
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wendy: did not get to everything, but did merge the PR's links here
… still need to get to legibility section. Needs major rewrite
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wendy: talk about Accessibility Guidiance for reading systems today
… this is where the different image types, what we identify as reading systems, and scripting and considerations for using java
… unique section, so lets open to discussion with group
<Guest42> - An RS should support an EPUB's table of contents, page list, and landmarks. (évident mais autant le répéter).
<Guest42> - An RS should enable access to the content of each page to assistive technologies.
<Guest42> - An RS should support fixed-layout SVG pages.
<Guest42> - An RS should enable resizing a page up to 200 percent without assistive technology and without losing content or functionality.
<Guest42> - An RS should enable the display of an image full screen.
<Guest42> - An RS should enable the display of alternative text and complex image descriptions without assistive technology.
<Guest42> - An RS should support EPUB Media Overlays.
<Guest42> - An RS should display the accessibility metadata provided in an EPUB.
<Guest42> And later (quand on aura trouvé un accord sur ces technologies) :
<Guest42> - An RS should support alternative reflow pages.
<Guest42> - An RS should support Synchronized Navigation.
Lauraunt: proposal for this. has a list to be shared here above
… what reading system should go with what EPUB is supporting
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Lauraunt: nots SVG pages is part of requirment for EPUB, resizing will help with WGAG AA, two last are addtional recs. not needed to be added today
… believes is enough, each can be its own document, one reading system that has this can be considered a proper reading system for all layouts
Gregorio: agrees with list. Should double check with accessible guidelines for browsers, user agent guidelines, he will double check and reference back to the specs
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Gregorio: resizing page to 200% that is not reflowable is just zooming text. We need to make this clear
… some of this is more than just baseline for accessiblity standards. For example the display Alt-text without assistive tech is not required but we should not it is recommended
… correction is not required but we should note it is recommended
Wendy: agreed. Would love to display to everyone. We can see this on social media with ID in image and in caption
Wendy: another way to look at this is also what do content creators want to look for with reading systems
Charles: what do we want to include about horizontal and vertical scrolling? Not sure if there is a solution, but right now zooming is a pain and a big congnative load to read and keep track this way
Laurent: Agreed, it is hard, but right now no real solution other than zoom. Maybe we imagine a new tech that can help with this type of scrolling. At the level of the reading system we cant do this right now
Charles: maybe break it up in places so it only zoom vertically
Laurent: we can't depend on the creators to do this for us, so we have to work with what we have. We have what we can do and what we dream for
Charles: I agree, but I want to put this out to help avoid this scrolling in reading systems in the future
Laurent: right now the reflowable idea is seems the most ideal
Wendy: this goes back to our dreams of a better future. Goes back to conversation of responsive books like responsive epubs
… biggest challenge of responsive books is they are built very different. Books uses In Design, browswers use different tools. Don't know if it is a solution of the tools, but maybe a change with how books are actually buiilt
Wendy: What are we missing from the tools? What are the challenges and blockers? for content creators
Naomi: one point we have responsive design for ebooks. This broke, and content got cut off at the bottom of book because pagnation not updated in reflow
… one issue we face is the risk is addign responsive design involves a huge amount of retesting. Potentially less about risk and long term support for responsive design
… the second you do width of screen and viewport it gets complicated because of pagnation
… cant see them doing responsive design until this is fixed, might do it for a subsection of content. FXL is a bit easier to test than reflowable
… responsive design is a big task, and it is not automated, so it is a lot more labour intensive
… it is not just the tools
Wendy: very fair point. Came up for us in our testing, when we set up the EPUB testing it all had to be done manually. Even if it is webbased, even with a web reader
Naomi: even a standard platform media query can create a lot of extra work. If we go down this road we cant just say this is an option
Gautier: we need to go into this discussion. It is not part of our current recommendations. Do we split this group to look into this further, or do we just finish what we have and wait for later work to add more later
Gregorio: authoring tools available for FXL are not good at 2 things. 1 is reading order and the other is symantic tagging
… these two issues, reading order based on what is behind what (not good) and semantic tagging where everything is exported as a paragraph
… reading order also includes what is outside of reading order and needs to be tagged
Wendy: So all we can all do in this doc is recommend to be careful about reading order and semantic tagging
… does not have time to run side of how to fix these. I do not have the time to run this, but open to someone else tackling this
Sue: Is part of what we do in the document is pointing out pinpoints where we can't do reading order and semantic tagging and just leave it there? As we are commenting on the current FXL status
Wendy: Good question, will be passed to EU. There could be pushed back on doign this work, though it can be done
Gregorio: In doc we will say it is feasible, then on publisher side if it is work can be done or it is too expensive to fix accessibility of the book. It is outside of our technical discussion
… we should be clear on what is available right now
Wendy: We have tech doc to point to where to find this issue and how to fix it, so this can show the how to use it
… for content creators: we know there are gaps, but are there other info you would like to have or be provided some clarity?
Simon: this document will be used by the EC on how to do it. What we are talking about here is fine when we are doing our own books, but at scale of a vendor might not be possible to do this
Wendy: Good point. Not all publishers do their own work, use vendors, is there a way we can phrase is so it is clear to the vendors
Simon: this means vendors need to be part of the audience
Wendy: A lot of people create the same output, what they do in the process is very different. We can be more explicit and include language that points to everyone who works on creating and EPUB
Simon: defining author and content creator does this need to be part of the beginning of the document?
Wendy: I think it is defined in another location and I can find it and link it to the document. Will look to see if I can find this
Wendy: EPUB creator is the new phrase we use
Gregorio: switched from EPUB Author to avoid confusion from original author and the person building the EPUB
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Wendy: Might add terminology section for all these words we are introducing
… in terms of future work. Does anyone want to take a lead on these conversations.
Gautier: Maybe I can ask around and pass this foreward to see if someone can jump in and take a lead on this, and by January have something
Wendy: needs to get this finalized. Needs content for Media Overlay section, and reading systems section. Anyone can give a look over from the prespective on what is needed
Laurent: We can take lead of reading system sections.
Wendy: reworded Alt-text for document based on list provided. Thinks this list requires the top level requirements. Scrolling is still an issue, but is more complicated
Laurent: One room in scrolling, is reflow. Currently there is no FXL that can say is meets the WGAG AA requirements
… no FXL document can state it supports the reflow requirements
Wendy: Next steps, Laurent get additional text in accordance with list provided, and Wendy can edit it into the document
… Thank you everyone! We will meet ina week