14:12:25 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #wot-td
14:12:29 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-irc
14:12:49 <dape> scribe: dape
14:13:15 <kaz> agenda: https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_25.2C_2023
14:13:20 <dape> TOPIC: Organizational
14:13:41 <kaz> meeting: WoT-WG - TD-TF
14:13:41 <kaz> chair: Ege
14:14:19 <kaz> present+ Kaz_Ashimura, Ege_Korkan, Luca_Barbato, Daniel_Peintner, Jan_Romann, Mahda_Noura, Michael_Koster
14:14:58 <dape> EK: Agenda is there way in advance.. please add to the list if needed
14:15:22 <dape> ... Question about next week meeting. Public holiday in Germany.
14:15:30 <dape> ... I cannot chair
14:15:41 <kaz> present+ Tomoaki_Mizushima
14:15:52 <dape> MK: Not sure if there are enough people
14:15:54 <kaz> rrsagent, make log public
14:16:00 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:16:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:16:36 <dape> EK: <checking>
14:16:55 <dape> ... seems enough people ... so we could have a meeting
14:17:09 <kaz> i|Agenda is|subtopic: Agenda|
14:17:30 <dape> TM: Japanese holiday is later next week
14:17:34 <kaz> i|Agenda is|-> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#October_25.2C_2023 agenda for today|
14:17:46 <kaz> i|question|subtopic: Next week|
14:17:59 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:18:00 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:18:08 <dape> TOPIC: Ongoing General Topics
14:18:16 <kaz> q+
14:18:48 <kaz> ack k
14:19:09 <dape> EK: For the 1.1 publication we agreed on it last week
14:19:09 <kaz> i|Question|subtopic: Next week|
14:19:23 <dape> ... there are some pending PRs
14:19:35 <kaz> i|Ongoing General|subtopic: Minutes|
14:19:41 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 1903 - Delete NAMESPACES.md
14:19:52 <kaz> i|Ongoing General|-> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/18-wot-td-minutes.html Oct-18|
14:19:53 <dape> EK: Agreed already last week. Any objections ?
14:20:02 <kaz> i|Ongoing General|ek: approved|
14:20:04 <dape> ... none -> merging
14:20:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:20:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:20:24 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 1904 - Copy over last changes to ontology documents
14:20:36 <dape> EK: replicates content to publication folder
14:20:46 <kaz> present+ Cristiano_Aguzzi
14:20:55 <dape> ... not really needed but for the sake of consistently we should do it
14:21:09 <dape> ... no objections -> merging
14:21:35 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 10 in WoT - Moving td 1.0 related contents to td 1.1 table
14:21:40 <dape> EK: Discussion in main call
14:22:01 <kaz> i|replicates|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1904 PR 1904 - Copy over last changes to ontology documents|
14:22:06 <dape> ... table with ttl. resources ... should be in 1.0 readme
14:22:17 <dape> ... PR moves content accordingly
14:22:35 <dape> EK: Kaz, can we merge it in this call?
14:22:44 <dape> Kaz: Good question
14:22:51 <dape> ... personally I am okay
14:22:57 <dape> ... I think we can merge it
14:23:19 <dape> ... no objections -> merging
14:23:47 <kaz> i|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/10 wot-resources PR 10 - Moving td 1.0 related contents to td 1.1 table|
14:23:54 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 1906 - TM Schema regex error
14:23:59 <dape> EK: Discussion issue
14:24:03 <kaz> s/PR 1904/wot-thing-description PR 1904/
14:24:09 <dape> ... late but somewhat a bug
14:24:35 <kaz> i|Discussion|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1906 wot-thing-description PR 1906 - TM Schema regex error #1906|
14:24:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:24:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:24:52 <mjk> mjk has joined #wot-td
14:25:04 <dape> ... in TD spec we use a regex
14:25:23 <dape> ... this regex causes problems with slashes
14:25:31 <luca_barbato> q+
14:25:38 <dape> ... e.g., in golang validators
14:25:42 <kaz> i|Agreed already|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1903 wot-thing-description PR 1903 - Delete NAMESPACES.md|
14:25:49 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:25:50 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:26:16 <dape> ... it fails in Rust also
14:26:24 <kaz> q?
14:27:00 <dape> LB: Rust does not have regex ... it boils down to a different issue
14:27:04 <kaz> i|Discussion in main|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-resources/pull/10 wot-resources PR 10 - Moving td 1.0 related contents to td 1.1 table|
14:27:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:27:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:27:43 <dape> EK: according to JSON schema what we are doing is correct
14:28:20 <dape> ... the problem is it fails in golang
14:28:54 <dape> CA: It could be solved  by finding workaround or fixing golang
14:29:07 <cris__> cris__ has joined #wot-td
14:29:49 <dape> LB: We could try to setup/point to given JSON schema validator
14:30:01 <dape> .. it should not be our job to fix implementations
14:30:39 <mahda-noura> +1
14:31:06 <dape> ... BTW, Rust implementation is fine
14:31:21 <Ege> q?
14:31:27 <dape> ... ack luca_barbato
14:32:26 <dape> ... we could look into libraries that work ... to have better knowledge
14:33:02 <dape> EK: There is a tool that tests 1 schema across multiple implementations
14:33:16 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1749
14:33:24 <luca_barbato> https://github.com/bowtie-json-schema/bowtie
14:34:26 <dape> CA: we can list supported validators and maybe mark the one we know that have problems
14:34:41 <dape> ... I don't think we should fix the JSON schema
14:34:54 <dape> s/mark the one/mark the ones
14:35:46 <Ege> q?
14:35:48 <Ege> ack l
14:36:16 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:36:17 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:36:23 <JKRhb> JKRhb has joined #wot-td
14:36:26 <mjk> q?
14:36:28 <JKRhb> q+
14:36:37 <JKRhb> q-
14:36:52 <dape> EK: I was looking for other regex
14:37:03 <dape> ... since our regex is not perfect
14:38:09 <dape> ...  should we keep the *old* regex?
14:38:23 <dape> ... or should we make it more correct?
14:38:29 <cris__> q+
14:38:52 <dape> CA: I am in favor to me be more correct
14:39:22 <dape> ack cris__
14:39:41 <dape> s/to me be more correct/to be more correct
14:39:56 <dape> EK: I will try to fix it
14:41:33 <dape> ... I appreciate if someone can help with regexes
14:41:52 <kaz> q+
14:42:06 <dape> ... Kaz, is this still fine to update resources that are not index.html
14:42:31 <dape> Kaz: Yes, but let's see the response from PLH
14:43:05 <dape> SUBTOPIC: PR 1909 - Inconsistencies in wotsec ontology
14:43:08 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1909
14:43:21 <dape> EK: Mahda can you explain the issue
14:43:34 <dape> MN: checked ontology file ...
14:43:53 <dape> ... class PopSecurityScheme .. is commented out but still referenced
14:44:13 <dape> ... it causes  the ontology to link URI that do not exist
14:44:29 <dape> ... I removed those references in the domain
14:44:31 <kaz> s|Yes, but let's see the response from PLH|Yes, we should/could maintain the resource files separately from the spec itself under /TR. That is part of the reasons we split the schema definition from the spec./
14:44:59 <dape> EK: For these ontology files we do not enough testing
14:45:07 <dape> ... we can/should improve there
14:45:45 <kaz> i/1909/Kaz: That's also part of my reason I suggest we shift to the easier namespace definition (=/ns/wot) to make the maintenance easier, but let's see the response from PLH about that point./
14:45:50 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:45:52 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:46:02 <dape> EK: This PR also fixes OAuth2SecuritySchema .. missing vocabulary terms
14:46:38 <dape> EK: I think Sebastian was manually generating the PNGs
14:47:03 <kaz> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1909|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/pull/1909 wot-thing-description PR 1909 - Inconsistencies in wotsec ontology|
14:47:06 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:47:07 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:47:13 <dape> ... not sure what causes the issue
14:47:29 <dape> MN: in SVG not everything is considered
14:47:45 <dape> q+
14:49:15 <dape> ... for example if it is not linked/used
14:49:28 <dape> ... the SVG lacks information
14:49:39 <dape> ... like in the case of the proxy term
14:49:40 <kaz> ack k
14:50:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:50:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:50:39 <dape> DP: PNGs were manually updated over the time
14:52:06 <dape> MN: The layout is also different ...now I know the reason
14:52:06 <dape> EK: but content is also different .. sometimes
14:52:06 <dape> ack dape
14:52:06 <dape> EK: Will talk with Sebastian
14:52:06 <dape> ... suggest to generate SVG again and cross-check the results
14:52:19 <dape> ... w.r.t to PR 1908 I think we can merge
14:53:06 <dape> ... no objections -> merging
14:53:07 <mjk> q?
14:53:49 <dape> EK: Can you explain the proxy issue again?
14:54:06 <dape> MN: looking at "proxy" in wotsec.ttl
14:54:25 <dape> ... it has no range therefore it cannot connect to anything
14:54:49 <dape> ... it should be linked with security and something else.. but something else does not exist
14:55:09 <dape> ... rest is correct.. since other security schemes are subclasses
14:55:30 <kaz> i|looking at|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/blob/main/ontology/wotsec.ttl wot-thing-description/ontology/wotsec.ttl|
14:55:32 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:55:33 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:56:10 <dape> EK: Mahda can you provide a fix?
14:56:23 <dape> MN: SHACL file has same issue
14:56:47 <dape> EK: adding a range would suffice?
14:56:56 <dape> MN: Will check with McCool
14:57:33 <kaz> s/1908/1909/
14:57:34 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
14:57:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
14:58:11 <dape> EK: looking at issue 1907
14:58:51 <dape> MN: I think I can provide a fix
14:59:24 <dape> ... using dataProperty instead
14:59:41 <dape> TOPIC: Binding Templates
14:59:56 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Figure Fix
15:00:01 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/311
15:00:11 <dape> EK: same done in Architecture
15:00:19 <dape> ... merged PR in main call
15:00:46 <dape> ... replacing "Philips Hue" with "Custom devices"
15:00:55 <dape> ... for me it is fine
15:01:12 <dape> ... no objections -> merging
15:01:27 <dape> SUBTOPIC: Guide document
15:01:33 <dape> -> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/298
15:01:34 <kaz> i|Can you explain|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1908 wot-thing-description Issue 1908 - Inconsistencies in wotsec ontology|
15:01:42 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:01:43 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:01:50 <dape> EK: PR is still open
15:01:56 <dape> SUBTOPIC: BACnet PRs
15:02:20 <dape> EK: we still wait for feedback
15:02:39 <kaz> i|Issue 1908|subtopic: Issue 1908|
15:02:46 <dape> MK: I think it is straightforward enough to merge
15:02:59 <kaz> i|looking at issue 1907|subtopic: Issue 1907|
15:03:27 <dape> q?
15:04:02 <kaz> i|looking at issue 1907|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-thing-description/issues/1907 wot-thing-description Issue 1907 - Security Figure is missing proxy term|
15:04:05 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:04:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:04:42 <dape> EK: Okay than we can merge PR 307, https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/307
15:04:50 <luca_barbato> scribenick: luca_barbato
15:05:35 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/311|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/311 wot-binding-template PR 311 - Replace to 'Custom devices' in Figure 1|
15:06:23 <kaz> s|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/298|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/298 wot-binding-templates PR 298 - Add additional explanations to vocabulary creation guide|
15:06:24 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/308
15:06:29 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:06:30 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:07:20 <kaz> i|we still wait|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/307 wot-binding-templates PR 307 - [BACnet] Fix examples and one formulation|
15:07:49 <luca_barbato> ek: as per last week discussion I removed the Data Type Mappings from the jsonschema
15:08:01 <kaz> i|308|subtopic: PR 308|
15:08:33 <luca_barbato> mk: I'm ok with merging it
15:08:35 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/308|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/308 wot-binding-templates PR 308 - Adding BACnet JSON Schema|
15:08:41 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:08:42 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:09:55 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/309
15:10:03 <luca_barbato> subtopic: PR 309
15:10:27 <dape> q+
15:13:16 <luca_barbato> ek: We rely on the default key to signal that if the consumer does not set a value the driver is going to use the declared default (see the examples about covIncrement)
15:14:14 <luca_barbato> dp: I'm wondering what lead to this solution
15:14:15 <luca_barbato> q+
15:14:45 <dape> ack dape
15:15:02 <mjk> q+
15:18:01 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:18:02 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:19:09 <kaz> i|We rely on|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/pull/309 wot-binding-templates PR 309 - Reorganizing uri variables section|
15:20:02 <kaz> i|We rely on|-> https://github.com/w3c/wot-binding-templates/issues/302 related Issue 302 - URI Variable for BACnet|
15:20:03 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:20:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:20:17 <kaz> q?
15:20:19 <kaz> ack lu
15:20:22 <kaz> ack mj
15:21:21 <luca_barbato> lu: In the issue I provided the full example, it boils down to put the vocabulary terms involving the binding protocol only in the form, so consumers unaware of the binding can still safely consume the affordance as long there are forms it can consume
15:22:07 <luca_barbato> lu: if there are vocabulary terms in the affordance, the strict degraded consumption rule would require to ignore completely that affordance
15:24:43 <luca_barbato> mk: We need to formalise the data mapping of dataschemas and protocol side-channels
15:25:02 <luca_barbato> mk: I agree we need to keep the concerns separated
15:25:56 <luca_barbato> mk: For the problem at hand with the bacnet bindings, the consumer that uses the form has to be aware of the side-channel and we should not pretend the uriVariable are something they aren't
15:26:12 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:26:14 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:27:09 <mjk> ack mjk
15:29:32 <luca_barbato> ek: <update the issue> I'd keep it open so we can get more feedback on the issue since it is a big change from the initial proposal
15:30:12 <luca_barbato> topic: TD Next
15:32:28 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/blob/main/planning/ThingDescription/work-items.md
15:33:00 <luca_barbato> ek: this is the planning document, we need to prioritise the topics. Please only change the md
15:33:20 <Ege> https://www.w3.org/WoT/IG/wiki/WG_WoT_Thing_Description_WebConf#Planning_for_new_charter_workstreams_.2845_mins.29
15:33:55 <luca_barbato> q+
15:34:30 <luca_barbato> ek: We trasferred the content of the wiki in the md
15:35:33 <luca_barbato> ek: We should not have too many work items
15:38:23 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:38:24 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:39:01 <luca_barbato> q+
15:39:41 <luca_barbato> ek: We have 3 categories so far: Usabilty&Design, New Features, Supporting Work Items
15:41:14 <mahda-noura> q+
15:41:18 <mjk> q+
15:44:54 <luca_barbato> lu&ek: <shuffle items across the categories>
15:45:11 <Ege> ack l
15:45:37 <luca_barbato> mn: About timeseries and historical data, what is the intention?
15:45:59 <luca_barbato> mn: Do we want to add additional vocabulary terms?
15:46:43 <luca_barbato> ek: Maybe, depends on what we want to support, we need to be able to describe the different use-case
15:47:12 <luca_barbato> q+
15:48:19 <luca_barbato> mn: We have already properties, how they need to change to fit historical data and time series?
15:48:53 <luca_barbato> ek: we can go into details later on
15:49:08 <Ege> q?
15:49:17 <Ege> ack mah
15:49:42 <luca_barbato> mk: There is a use-case to map a property and how the property change over time
15:50:08 <luca_barbato> mk: And would be good to have a standardise way to describe the instant property and the property over time
15:50:32 <Ege> ack mj
15:50:44 <kaz> ack lu
15:51:24 <Ege> btw webthings.io has some solutions for the history of events, actions, property changes
15:51:36 <kaz> q+
15:52:19 <kaz> ack k
15:52:36 <luca_barbato> kaz: We look into known solutions for those items
15:54:19 <kaz> s/We look/We can look/
15:54:27 <Ege> q?
15:54:31 <mjk> ack mjk
15:54:37 <kaz> s/solutions/solutions like ECHONET/
15:56:41 <Ege> https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1112
15:57:13 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:57:15 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
15:57:29 <luca_barbato> ek: We can use historical_data-explainer.md as template for the other work items
15:58:46 <kaz> i|work-items.md|subtopic: Work Items|
15:59:03 <kaz> i|1112|subtopic: PR 1112|
15:59:41 <kaz> s|https://github.com/w3c/wot/pull/1112|-> wot PR 1112 - Historical data workitem analysis|
15:59:52 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
15:59:53 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
16:00:50 <Ege> q?
16:04:06 <kaz> [adjourned]
16:04:08 <kaz> rrsagent, draft minutes
16:04:09 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-wot-td-minutes.html kaz
17:47:28 <kaz> kaz has joined #wot-td
19:22:38 <Zakim> Zakim has left #wot-td