14:50:52 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #maturity
14:50:56 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-maturity-irc
14:50:56 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:51:27 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Fazio
14:52:06 <Fazio> meeting: Maturity Model
14:52:06 <Fazio> present+
14:52:06 <Fazio> chair: Fazio
14:52:10 <Fazio> Agenda+ Equity Subgroup Update from Sheri
14:52:34 <Fazio> agenda+ New Business
14:52:49 <Fazio> Agenda+ GitHub Issue #140 Executive sponsor in place vs Executive leadership in place
14:52:49 <gb> /issues/140 -> #140
14:53:02 <Fazio> Agenda+ GitHub Issue #142 Business strategy includes accessibility as a market differentiator
14:53:03 <gb> /issues/142 -> #142
14:53:12 <Fazio> Agenda+ GitHub Issue #143 communities of practice. Question, communities we serve
14:53:12 <gb> /issues/143 -> #143
14:53:21 <Fazio> Agenda + GitHub Issue #145 Linking would make it easier to use
14:53:21 <gb> /issues/145 -> #145
14:53:33 <Fazio> Agenda + GitHub Issue #153 The effectiveness of knowledge/skill acquisition should be measured
14:53:33 <gb> /issues/153 -> #153
14:58:14 <sheribyrne> sheribyrne has joined #maturity
14:58:21 <sheribyrne> present_
14:58:24 <sheribyrne> present+
15:01:26 <CharlesL> CharlesL has joined #maturity
15:01:33 <janina> janina has joined #maturity
15:01:36 <janina> present+
15:01:38 <nadine> nadine has joined #maturity
15:01:40 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Lionel_Wolberger_ has joined #maturity
15:01:50 <CharlesL> present+
15:03:07 <janina> present+
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15:03:37 <jkline> +present
15:03:44 <Lionel_Wolberger_> present+
15:03:47 <jkline> present+
15:03:52 <Lionel_Wolberger_> scribe+
15:03:56 <nadine> present+
15:04:01 <jkline> scribe+
15:04:25 <Lionel_Wolberger_> zakim, next item
15:04:25 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Equity Subgroup Update from Sheri -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:05:34 <janina> q+ Who does equity report to?
15:05:37 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: The Equity subgroup is looking at Equity all across W3C, not just accessibility
15:06:14 <Fazio> q+
15:07:08 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... currently reporting to AGWG and there was suggestion that it report to some other group
15:08:03 <Lionel_Wolberger_> janina: Historically in WAI APA is the right place, as APA is chartered for cross-organizational review
15:08:10 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... if not WAI then perhaps TAG
15:09:07 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ack Fazio
15:09:13 <janina> q?
15:09:35 <Lionel_Wolberger_> janina: I will bring this up at the WAI-CC
15:09:50 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: Equity was considering a maturity model
15:09:58 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... I suggested two alternatives
15:10:17 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... 1 they provide proof points as an extension of our Maturity Model
15:10:28 <janina> q+
15:10:28 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ...2 they provide proof points that we incorporate into our model
15:10:35 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... either way, they need to define their proof points
15:10:43 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... and the group has begun that work.
15:11:12 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... One issue that Equity felt strongly about, is improving on the phrase 'proof points'
15:11:12 <Fazio> I don't like our jargon either
15:11:26 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... they argue that it does not translate well into other languages, as well as other objections
15:11:40 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... they propose 'evidence' perhaps as an alternative
15:12:18 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... Tzviya noted that sustainability also wants to contribute proof points (or whatever they will be called)
15:12:20 <janina> q?
15:12:50 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q?
15:12:52 <jkline> queue+
15:13:31 <Lionel_Wolberger_> janina: The alternatives sound good, either extension or incorporation
15:13:46 <Fazio> q+
15:13:49 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... we did think this could fit under culture
15:13:51 <sheribyrne> q+
15:13:59 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... regarding 'proof points' vs 'evidence'
15:14:12 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... evidence is a collective noun, while proof points are quite specific
15:14:29 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... will it say 'evidence points' for example? We need to consider and propose
15:14:49 <Fazio> Q?
15:14:52 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... Also noting, this is a positive sign
15:15:06 <Fazio> ack jkline
15:15:07 <Lionel_Wolberger_> jkline: Agree it's a positive sign
15:15:34 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... not wedded to 'proof points'. 'Evidence points' could work as well. I am open to this change as long as we find the appropriate terminology.
15:16:09 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... I do want to ensure that we remain focused on 'support of building accessible IT and the organizational capacity and maturity within organizations'
15:16:21 <Fazio> ack Fazio
15:16:34 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... these concerns for equity, sustainability might divert us from that goal
15:17:07 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Fazio: Sheri gave a great presentation on LLMs at M-Enabling where Equity played a big role
15:17:43 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... I have found in my sharing this model in LATAM and elsewhere, the language is found to be a bit hard to grasp
15:18:42 <janina> ack jan
15:19:12 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: I did hear an opinion that it will be eaiser for the USA Federal Govt to adopt this, if it is one model
15:19:46 <Lionel_Wolberger_> jkline: Keep the end users in mind. It is already not exactly lightweight.
15:20:11 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... the more it has, the more people might be reluctant to pick it up
15:20:18 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: Note that it is modular, and people can pick up the part that they want
15:20:18 <Fazio> q?
15:20:32 <Fazio> ack sheribyrne
15:20:52 <Fazio> q?
15:20:54 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: I find that 'evidence' is a non-countable noun, so it can be singular or collective
15:21:39 <Fazio> q?
15:21:40 <janina> q+
15:21:43 <Lionel_Wolberger_> ... in addition, we are talking about adding proof points to all dimensions
15:21:53 <Fazio> ack janina
15:21:58 <Lionel_Wolberger_> q+
15:22:09 <Lionel_Wolberger_> janina: Is evidence sufficient? It does not quantify easily
15:22:19 <Lionel_Wolberger_> sheribyrne: We can number them with unique identifiers
15:22:55 <janina> ack ja
15:23:50 <Lionel_Wolberger_> regrets: Stacey
15:23:58 <Fazio> q?
15:24:13 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Topic: General discussion of the term 'proof points'
15:24:25 <Lionel_Wolberger_> janina: We need to discuss and consider the choices
15:24:46 <janina> ack ja
15:24:47 <Lionel_Wolberger_> Lionel_Wolberger_: See above in the minutes for some discussion on 'evidence' vs. 'proof points'
15:25:27 <Fazio> ack Lionel_Wolberger_
15:25:42 <Fazio> q?
15:27:39 <jkline> zakim, next item
15:27:39 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- New Business -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:28:38 <jkline> Sheri now in the audit committee for W3c
15:29:42 <jkline> discussed how to obtain grant funding for DEI activities
15:32:17 <jkline> zakim, next item
15:32:17 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- GitHub Issue #140 Executive sponsor in place vs Executive leadership in place -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:32:18 <gb> /issues/140 -> #140
15:32:26 <jkline> GITHUB Issues
15:32:39 <Fazio> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/140
15:32:40 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/140 -> Issue 140 Executive sponsor in place' vs 'Executive leadership in place' (by clapierre) [Editorial]
15:32:45 <jkline> Issue 140 - Exec leadershiip
15:34:28 <jkline> Exec leadership vs exec sponsorship terminology...in discussion
15:36:42 <jkline> Discussion on new terminology....leadership vs. champion discussion.
15:39:33 <jkline> references provided on where exec sponsorship appears
15:40:44 <jkline> Close issue... don't see a significant path to improve current terminology
15:41:51 <jkline> Zakim, next item
15:41:51 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- GitHub Issue #142 Business strategy includes accessibility as a market differentiator -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:41:52 <gb> /issues/142 -> #142
15:42:06 <Fazio> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/142
15:42:06 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/142 -> Issue 142  'Business strategy includes accessibility as a market differentiator' (by clapierre) [Editorial]
15:47:57 <jkline> Need the term "promoting" in the proof point
15:48:53 <jkline> Business strategy includes promoting accessibility as a market differentiator'
15:48:59 <Fazio> will edit 3.7.1 Proof Points to say Business strategy includes promoting digital accessibility as market differentiator
15:49:31 <jkline> Language to be revised. Issue closed.
15:50:17 <jkline> zakim, next item
15:50:17 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- GitHub Issue #143 communities of practice. Question, communities we serve -- taken up [from Fazio]
15:50:18 <gb> /issues/143 -> #143
15:51:08 <Fazio> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/143
15:51:09 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/maturity-model/issues/143 -> Issue 143 communities of practice. Question, communities we serve? (by clapierre) [Editorial]
15:55:03 <jkline> Janina..get support from equity group on communities of practice.
15:55:56 <jkline> we agree this could be clearer.
15:57:25 <jkline> Janina provides wikipedia definition
15:59:40 <jkline> zakim, end meeting
15:59:40 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been Fazio, sheribyrne, janina, CharlesL, present, Lionel_Wolberger_, jkline, nadine
15:59:43 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:59:44 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-maturity-minutes.html Zakim
15:59:59 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, jkline; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:59:59 <Zakim> Zakim has left #maturity
16:02:32 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:02:32 <RRSAgent> I see no action items