13:57:42 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #apa
13:57:46 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-irc
13:57:46 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
13:57:47 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), janina
13:58:06 <janina> Meeting: APA Weekly Teleconference
13:58:13 <janina> Date: 25 Oct 2023
13:58:19 <janina> Chair:  Janina
13:58:19 <janina> agenda+ Agenda Review & Announcements
13:58:19 <janina> agenda+ Heads Up: Clock Changes
13:58:19 <janina> agenda+ New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22
13:58:22 <janina> agenda+ A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review
13:58:25 <janina> agenda+ Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues
13:58:27 <janina> agenda+ new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html
13:58:30 <janina> agenda+ CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues
13:58:32 <janina> agenda+ Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open
13:58:35 <janina> agenda+ Task Force & Deliverables Updates
13:58:37 <janina> agenda+ Other Business
13:58:40 <janina> agenda+ be done
13:58:44 <PaulG> PaulG has joined #apa
14:00:15 <janina>  present+
14:00:51 <Roy> present+
14:01:31 <PaulG> present+
14:01:45 <PaulG> I'm coming from another meeting, will join call soon
14:01:59 <janina> present+
14:02:38 <Abhinav> Abhinav has joined #apa
14:02:49 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger has joined #apa
14:02:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> present+
14:02:53 <Abhinav> present+
14:03:14 <Nichole> Nichole has joined #APA
14:03:44 <Nichole> present+
14:04:04 <Lionel_Wolberger> scribe+
14:05:08 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:05:08 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Agenda Review & Announcements -- taken up [from janina]
14:06:26 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:06:26 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Heads Up: Clock Changes -- taken up [from janina]
14:06:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Note that Europe, UK and some others return to standard time; while others spring forward (AUS)
14:07:23 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... be aware, the APA meeting may fall one hour earlier for a week
14:07:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:07:46 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- New Charters Review https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues?q=is%3Aissue+is%3Aopen+label%3A%22Horizontal+review+requested%22 -- taken up [from janina]
14:08:22 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:08:22 <Zakim> agendum 3 closed
14:08:23 <Zakim> I see 8 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:08:23 <Zakim> 4. A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review [from janina]
14:08:25 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:08:25 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- A11y Review Comment Tracker https://w3c.github.io/horizontal-issue-tracker/?repo=w3c/a11y-review -- taken up [from janina]
14:08:36 <Lionel_Wolberger> Roy: No comments
14:08:41 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, close this item
14:08:41 <Zakim> agendum 4 closed
14:08:42 <Zakim> I see 7 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:08:42 <Zakim> 5. Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues [from janina]
14:08:43 <Lionel_Wolberger> zakim, next item
14:08:44 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Explicit Review Requests https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues -- taken up [from janina]
14:08:53 <Roy> subtopic: W3C Securing Verifiable Credentials using JOSE and COSE
14:08:53 <Roy> - issue: https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/68
14:08:53 <Roy> - spec: https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-jose-cose/
14:08:54 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/a11y-request/issues/68 -> Issue 68 W3C Securing Verifiable Credentials using JOSE and COSE 2021-09-18 (by awoie) [SR] [REVIEW REQUESTED] [pending]
14:12:30 <PaulG> Lionel_Wolberger: this is a standard accessibility considerations section
14:12:43 <PaulG> ...I'm going to read this
14:13:14 <PaulG> zakim, next item
14:13:14 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html -- taken up [from janina]
14:13:29 <PaulG> Roy: no new on TR
14:13:41 <PaulG> zakim, close itm 6
14:13:41 <Zakim> I don't understand 'close itm 6', PaulG
14:13:41 <PaulG> zakim, close item 6
14:13:41 <Zakim> agendum 6, new on TR http://www.w3.org/TR/tr-status-drafts.html, closed
14:13:42 <Zakim> I see 5 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:13:42 <Zakim> 7. CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues [from janina]
14:13:59 <janina> scribe+
14:14:16 <janina> PaulG: One interesting discussion to track going forward ...
14:14:18 <PaulG> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9474
14:14:19 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/csswg-drafts/issues/9474 -> Issue 9474 [css-contain-2] API to expose skipped content state (by nt1m) [css-contain-2]
14:14:50 <janina> PaulG: A mechanism to skip rendering when skip invoked
14:15:23 <janina> PaulG: may skip rendering but still be in ax tree, worth staying on top of
14:15:34 <janina> PaulG: At least until we can rely on AOM
14:16:16 <janina> janina: Do I understand was content between skip link and target not rendered?
14:16:34 <janina> PaulG: An API to indicate whether elements are, or not rendered
14:17:01 <janina> PaulG: ARIA Describedby could be described=none but still be in ax
14:17:26 <janina> s/described/display/
14:19:43 <PaulG> scribe+
14:19:52 <PaulG> zakim, next item
14:19:52 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues -- taken up [from janina]
14:20:13 <PaulG> zakim, close item 7
14:20:13 <Zakim> agendum 7, CSS Update (Paul) https://github.com/w3c/css-a11y/issues, closed
14:20:14 <Zakim> I see 4 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
14:20:14 <Zakim> 8. Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open [from janina]
14:20:19 <PaulG> zakim, next item
14:20:19 <Zakim> agendum 8 -- Actions Checkin (Specs) https://www.w3.org/WAI/APA/track/actions/open -- taken up [from janina]
14:21:11 <PaulG> janina: media and apa had a meeting about timed text
14:21:45 <PaulG> ... BBC, media interest group, and broadcast talked about their 2025 regulatory requirements
14:22:00 <PaulG> ...RQTF will need more info to respond
14:22:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> q+
14:22:42 <PaulG> ...but now is not the time to add more feature requests so we'll need help updating the MAUR
14:23:01 <PaulG> ...we have a report and minutes of the meeting
14:23:43 <janina> Minutes from telecon here:
14:23:54 <janina> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/17-me-minutes.html
14:24:17 <IrfanAli> IrfanAli has joined #apa
14:24:21 <IrfanAli> present+
14:24:33 <janina> Followup is due Thursday late Boston time:
14:24:34 <janina> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1rt2GJ2mltUfZlvEwBLzLL1xn_DC_WtKCq6FQine7mxE/edit
14:25:05 <PaulG> ...i'll continue ot work on this but if you have comment please contribute
14:25:18 <PaulG> ack Lionel_Wolberger
14:26:32 <Lionel_Wolberger> Topic: Accessibility considerations regarding VCs and DIDs
14:26:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel: We are asked to review accessibility considerations on https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-jose-cose/
14:29:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this is a low level specification regarding JOSE and COSE
14:29:44 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... the current accessibility considerations section indicates that this spec should inherit the accessibility considerations already recorded in  https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/
14:31:05 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... this general consideration does not refer in any detail to the following concerns:
14:31:11 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 1 Complexity of Presentation: JOSE and COSE's primary focus is security, not user-friendliness or interpretability. When raw JOSE or COSE data is presented, it might not be readily understandable or accessible for users. Assistive technologies might find it challenging to provide meaningful translations or descriptions of encrypted or signed payloads.
14:32:50 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 2 the time to verify signatures may not meet accessbility guidelines, either too fast or too slow
14:33:19 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Timeouts need to be elastic, which may need to take into account navigation in a screen and not just requesting a validation
14:34:17 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: 3 While binary formats like CBOR might be more efficient in some contexts, they can be less transparent and harder to work with for assistive tools compared to text-based formats, potentially hindering accessibility.
14:35:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 4 Error Messaging challenge. Good error messages are hard to write.
14:35:57 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we are very concerned that these technologies, when immature, will have error messages that will be difficult to understand
14:36:13 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... we want error messages that are understandable by people with low technology skills
14:36:46 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... 5 We will want good explainers
14:37:00 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Given the technical nature of JOSE and COSE, documentation might assume a high level of prior knowledge.
14:37:14 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... but these credentials will be critical for communities without that knowledge
14:37:28 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... Managers will also benefit from such explainers
14:39:20 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: Where would we add these considerations?
14:39:38 <Lionel_Wolberger> Lionel_Wolberger: Can we add accessibility considerations to the parent spec, https://www.w3.org/TR/vc-data-model/
14:39:40 <Fredrik> Fredrik has joined #apa
14:39:44 <Fredrik> present+
14:39:52 <Lionel_Wolberger> Roy: It is not too late to add non-normative text like this
14:40:53 <Lionel_Wolberger> janina: I suggest that we curate this information, and contact the group and share that we wish to update the accessibility considerations in the parent spec
14:40:54 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:40:55 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-minutes.html Roy
14:41:33 <Lionel_Wolberger> ... with a pointer to these minutes
14:41:33 <janina> q?
14:42:24 <janina> rrsagent, make minutes
14:42:25 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-minutes.html janina
14:44:40 <PaulG> zakim, next item
14:44:40 <Zakim> agendum 9 -- Task Force & Deliverables Updates -- taken up [from janina]
14:45:13 <janina> topic: EO Charter
14:45:20 <janina> Fredrik: It's OK
14:46:04 <janina> Fredrik: Would like to see more specifics
14:46:27 <PaulG> Fredrik: the EO charter implies it should be in harmony with artifacts produced. I'd like to see language that they promote accessibility guidelines and best practice
14:47:57 <PaulG> janina: we want to see more best practices referenced
14:48:59 <PaulG> Fredrik: agreed
14:49:18 <PaulG> janina: to give the public better guidance about the information coming out of W3C WAI
14:49:20 <Roy> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/428
14:49:21 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/428 -> Issue 428 [wg/eowg] ON-HOLD - Accessibility EOWG re-charter (by shawna-slh) [Horizontal review requested] [Internationalization review completed] [Privacy review completed] [charter]
14:49:55 <PaulG> janina: I'll update the issue
14:50:06 <Roy> Put the comments in issue: https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/428
14:51:59 <Roy> action: janina to leave comments on EO Chater at https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/428
14:52:06 <gb> Created -> action #337 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/337
14:52:12 <Roy> RRSAgent, make minutes
14:52:13 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-minutes.html Roy
14:58:45 <PaulG> https://www.w3.org/WAI/ARIA/apg/patterns/ are patterns that are "aspirational" or "idealized" but have not been fully tested with AT/browser combinations. Something like a11ysupport.io shows that support for the patterns suggested aren't widespread yet.
15:00:01 <janina> zakim, end meeting
15:00:01 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been janina, Roy, PaulG, Lionel_Wolberger, Abhinav, Nichole, IrfanAli, Fredrik
15:00:03 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:00:05 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-minutes.html Zakim
15:00:11 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, janina; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
15:00:11 <Zakim> Zakim has left #apa
16:02:39 <janina> rrsagent, bye
16:02:39 <RRSAgent> I see 1 open action item saved in https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-actions.rdf :
16:02:39 <RRSAgent> ACTION: janina to leave comments on EO Chater at https://github.com/w3c/strategy/issues/428 [1]
16:02:39 <RRSAgent>   recorded in https://www.w3.org/2023/10/25-apa-irc#T14-51-59
16:02:43 <gb> Created -> action #338 https://github.com/w3c/apa/issues/338