IRC log of epub-fxl on 2023-10-23

Timestamps are in UTC.

14:49:43 [RRSAgent]
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logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/23-epub-fxl-irc
14:49:49 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:49:50 [Zakim]
please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
14:49:53 [wendyreid]
meeting: FXL Accessibility Task Force
14:49:59 [wendyreid]
date: 2023-10-23
14:50:02 [wendyreid]
chair: wendyreid
15:03:10 [sue_neu]
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15:03:11 [SimonPRH]
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15:03:24 [SimonPRH]
present+
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present+
15:05:27 [SimonPRH]
present+
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present+
15:06:05 [sue_neu]
present+
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present+
15:06:52 [jgriggs]
present+
15:07:17 [sue_neu]
I'm going through old emails trying to find the meeting passcode can someone post it or email it?
15:08:01 [wendyreid]
present+
15:12:09 [Hadrien]
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15:12:14 [Hadrien]
present+
15:12:19 [wendyreid]
scribe+ sue_neu
15:12:41 [wendyreid]
Topic: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/2587
15:13:31 [sue_neu]
scribe: Wendy I was able to go through all the comments on the document, I included the techniques so we didn't lose the information...
15:13:55 [sue_neu]
wendy there is a techniques document, mostly cut and paste for now
15:14:24 [sue_neu]
I went throught the requests, I'd like to talk about pagelist
15:14:52 [sue_neu]
I want to keep page lists in, we need to remind publishers why they are important. How can we make that a bit cleaner
15:15:01 [gpellegrino]
q+
15:15:36 [sue_neu]
[Hadrien] What you can do with pagelist is different than with page breaks..
15:16:10 [sue_neu]
that said you shouldn't take for granted the abilitiy to include a print equivalent
15:16:45 [sue_neu]
Wendy: yes, agreed. If I were building a fxl I would remove all the blank pages first since the don't make sense in an ebook
15:17:42 [sue_neu]
Hadrien: you don't need blank pages even to preserve spreads, you can make single pages centered display
15:17:55 [wendyreid]
ack gpellegrino
15:18:05 [sue_neu]
Hadrien: best practice is to avoid blank pages
15:19:13 [sue_neu]
Gregorio: It was a previous requirement for FXL to have a pagelist. It used to cause an issue in ACE, when there was no pagelist, but it doesn't any more. We should remove the editor's note
15:19:40 [sue_neu]
Wendy: Let's talk about legibility, all of the comments were warranted...
15:20:04 [sue_neu]
I'm happy to go through that again and refine it to what is required in WCAG re text structuring...
15:20:27 [sue_neu]
I do want to keep some of it in, I will reference readablitiy science...
15:20:48 [gpellegrino]
q+
15:20:50 [sue_neu]
I want to add more stuff that references internationalization and readibility
15:20:54 [wendyreid]
ack gpellegrino
15:21:06 [sue_neu]
Does anyone want to do more research on readability/internationalization
15:21:36 [sue_neu]
Gregorio: I think we need scientific reference, or remove this section only.
15:21:51 [sue_neu]
Wendy: I will make clear what is WCAG and what is beyond WCAG
15:22:35 [sue_neu]
Wendy: Has anyone done research on legibility in different scripts from the western alphabet?
15:23:32 [sue_neu]
Gautier: I might be able to find a resource
15:23:34 [gautier]
EDRLab works on EPUB and Dyslexia: https://www.edrlab.org/accessibility/epub-and-dyslexia/
15:23:46 [CharlesL]
q+
15:23:56 [wendyreid]
ack CharlesL
15:24:13 [sue_neu]
Wendy: sometimes publishers say "we have included the dislexia font" but we need to make it clear to publishers that this isn't a total solution
15:24:23 [wendyreid]
Another reference I like: https://medium.com/the-readability-group
15:24:40 [Hadrien]
q+
15:24:45 [wendyreid]
ack Hadrien
15:24:46 [sue_neu]
Charles: People have to be able to change the font even if the dyslexia font is available..
15:24:51 [sue_neu]
publishers should know
15:25:36 [sue_neu]
Hadrien: basically we are describing a reflowable epub. Technically it is possible to extract the content and build a relowable on the fly..
15:25:59 [gautier]
q+
15:26:05 [sue_neu]
we may always come back to "how can we create a reflowable experience within an fxl
15:26:23 [Hadrien]
q+
15:26:47 [sue_neu]
Wendy: The best we can do withing the confines of the current document is important to use standard fonts...
15:26:51 [wendyreid]
ack gautier
15:26:59 [sue_neu]
None of this is hard requirements but worth considering
15:27:20 [sue_neu]
Gautier: should we mention the limits on access from special devices? ...
15:27:32 [sue_neu]
alot of devices don't access fxl...
15:27:51 [sue_neu]
like some eink devices daisy players and braille systems...
15:28:13 [wendyreid]
ack Hadrien
15:28:18 [sue_neu]
maybe we should mention that an fxl limits the devices that can read your book
15:28:52 [sue_neu]
Hadrien: there are many fxl files design with specific fonts in mind expecting them to be avaiable...
15:29:16 [sue_neu]
this results in people cannot read these books at all if the font isn't available...
15:29:44 [sue_neu]
I have seen this extensively. Some reading systems embed ios fonts to solve this...
15:30:16 [sue_neu]
I think one of our test files is has rendering issues on android because of this problem...
15:31:02 [sue_neu]
Wendy: I've seen this happen when we don't have a font, or a reading system doesn't have a font, that supports languages with extended charactors...
15:31:19 [sue_neu]
sometimes this results in "tofu" boxes in the text...
15:31:47 [sue_neu]
publishers should include universal fonts or include fonts with all need charactors...
15:32:14 [sue_neu]
Wendy: I need to go to another meeting, if anyone has resouce this would be helpful
15:32:39 [sue_neu]
Hadrien: I am sharing an example of the font issue I mentioned...
15:33:16 [wendyreid]
zakim, end meet
15:33:16 [Zakim]
I don't understand 'end meet', wendyreid
15:33:19 [wendyreid]
zakim, end meeting
15:33:19 [Zakim]
As of this point the attendees have been SimonPRH, gautier, gpellegrino, sue_neu, CharlesL, jgriggs, wendyreid, Hadrien
15:33:21 [Zakim]
RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:33:22 [RRSAgent]
I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/23-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim
15:33:29 [Zakim]
I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye
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15:33:38 [CharlesL]
rrsagent, make logs public
15:33:56 [CharlesL]
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15:41:41 [wendyreid]
rrsagent, bye
15:41:41 [RRSAgent]
I see no action items