14:49:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl
14:49:48 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/23-epub-fxl-irc
14:49:49 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
14:49:50 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
14:49:53 <wendyreid> meeting: FXL Accessibility Task Force
14:49:59 <wendyreid> date: 2023-10-23
14:50:02 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
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15:06:44 <CharlesL> present+
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15:07:17 <sue_neu> I'm going through old emails trying to find the meeting passcode can someone post it or email it?
15:08:01 <wendyreid> present+
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15:12:19 <wendyreid> scribe+ sue_neu
15:12:41 <wendyreid> Topic: https://github.com/w3c/epub-specs/pull/2587
15:13:31 <sue_neu> scribe: Wendy I was able to go through all the comments on the document, I included the techniques so we didn't lose the information...
15:13:55 <sue_neu> wendy  there is a techniques document, mostly cut and paste for now
15:14:24 <sue_neu> I went throught the requests, I'd like to talk about pagelist
15:14:52 <sue_neu> I want to keep page lists in, we need to remind publishers why they are important. How can we make that a bit cleaner
15:15:01 <gpellegrino> q+
15:15:36 <sue_neu> [Hadrien] What you can do with pagelist is different than with page breaks..
15:16:10 <sue_neu> that said you shouldn't take for granted the abilitiy to include a print equivalent
15:16:45 <sue_neu> Wendy: yes, agreed. If I were building a fxl I would remove all the blank pages first since the don't make sense in an ebook
15:17:42 <sue_neu> Hadrien: you don't need blank pages even to preserve spreads, you can make single pages centered display
15:17:55 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:18:05 <sue_neu> Hadrien: best practice is to avoid blank pages
15:19:13 <sue_neu> Gregorio: It was a previous requirement for FXL to have a pagelist. It used to cause an issue in ACE, when there was no pagelist, but it doesn't any more. We should remove the editor's note
15:19:40 <sue_neu> Wendy: Let's talk about legibility, all of the comments were warranted...
15:20:04 <sue_neu> I'm happy to go through that again and refine it to what is required in WCAG re text structuring...
15:20:27 <sue_neu> I do want to keep some of it in, I will reference readablitiy science...
15:20:48 <gpellegrino> q+
15:20:50 <sue_neu> I want to add more stuff that references internationalization and readibility
15:20:54 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:21:06 <sue_neu> Does anyone want to do more research on readability/internationalization
15:21:36 <sue_neu> Gregorio: I think we need scientific reference, or remove this section only.
15:21:51 <sue_neu> Wendy: I will make clear what is WCAG and what is beyond WCAG
15:22:35 <sue_neu> Wendy: Has anyone done research on legibility in different scripts from the western alphabet?
15:23:32 <sue_neu> Gautier: I might be able to find a resource
15:23:34 <gautier> EDRLab works on EPUB and Dyslexia: https://www.edrlab.org/accessibility/epub-and-dyslexia/
15:23:46 <CharlesL> q+
15:23:56 <wendyreid> ack CharlesL
15:24:13 <sue_neu> Wendy: sometimes publishers say "we have included the dislexia font" but we need to make it clear to publishers that this isn't a total solution
15:24:23 <wendyreid> Another reference I like: https://medium.com/the-readability-group
15:24:40 <Hadrien> q+
15:24:45 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
15:24:46 <sue_neu> Charles: People have to be able to change the font even if the dyslexia font is available..
15:24:51 <sue_neu> publishers should know
15:25:36 <sue_neu> Hadrien: basically we are describing a reflowable epub. Technically it is possible to extract the content and build a relowable on the fly..
15:25:59 <gautier> q+
15:26:05 <sue_neu> we may always come back to "how can we create a reflowable experience within an fxl
15:26:23 <Hadrien> q+
15:26:47 <sue_neu> Wendy: The best we can do withing the confines of the current document is important to use standard fonts...
15:26:51 <wendyreid> ack gautier
15:26:59 <sue_neu> None of this is hard requirements but worth considering
15:27:20 <sue_neu> Gautier: should we mention the limits on access from special devices? ...
15:27:32 <sue_neu> alot of devices don't access fxl...
15:27:51 <sue_neu> like some eink devices daisy players and braille systems...
15:28:13 <wendyreid> ack Hadrien
15:28:18 <sue_neu> maybe we should mention that an fxl limits the devices that can read your book
15:28:52 <sue_neu> Hadrien: there are many fxl files design with specific fonts in mind expecting them to be avaiable...
15:29:16 <sue_neu> this results in people cannot read these books at all if the font isn't available...
15:29:44 <sue_neu> I have seen this extensively. Some reading systems embed ios fonts to solve this...
15:30:16 <sue_neu> I think one of our test files is has rendering issues on android because of this problem...
15:31:02 <sue_neu> Wendy: I've seen this happen when we don't have a font, or a reading system doesn't have a font, that supports languages with extended charactors...
15:31:19 <sue_neu> sometimes this results in "tofu" boxes in the text...
15:31:47 <sue_neu> publishers should include universal fonts or include fonts with all need charactors...
15:32:14 <sue_neu> Wendy: I need to go to another meeting, if anyone has resouce this would be helpful
15:32:39 <sue_neu> Hadrien: I am sharing an example of the font issue I mentioned...
15:33:16 <wendyreid> zakim, end meet
15:33:16 <Zakim> I don't understand 'end meet', wendyreid
15:33:19 <wendyreid> zakim, end meeting
15:33:19 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been SimonPRH, gautier, gpellegrino, sue_neu, CharlesL, jgriggs, wendyreid, Hadrien
15:33:21 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
15:33:22 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/23-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim
15:33:29 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
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15:33:38 <CharlesL> rrsagent, make logs public
15:33:56 <CharlesL> CharlesL has left #epub-fxl
15:41:41 <wendyreid> rrsagent, bye
15:41:41 <RRSAgent> I see no action items