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12:52:02 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
12:52:03 <Zakim> Meeting: Accessibility Conformance Testing Teleconference
12:52:07 <kathy> agenda?
12:52:32 <kathy> agenda+ ACT Standup
12:53:43 <kathy> agenda+ Nov 1 meeting canceled
12:53:54 <kathy> agenda+ CFCs from this week
12:54:04 <kathy> agenda+ Defining implementations
12:54:18 <kathy> agenda+ Secondary requirements explanations
12:54:29 <kathy> agenda+ Update background in the rules format
12:54:42 <kathy> agenda?
13:00:29 <trevor> trevor has joined #wcag-act
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13:05:54 <Helen> present+
13:06:02 <kathy> present+
13:06:06 <trevor> present+
13:06:12 <dmontalvo> scribe: dmontalvo
13:06:17 <dmontalvo> scribenick: Dainel
13:06:26 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
13:06:26 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- ACT Standup -- taken up [from kathy]
13:07:23 <dmontalvo> Kathy: Updated the rules format for background and secondary requirements
13:08:19 <dmontalvo> Helen: Discussed some PRs with JEan-Yves, especially around the transcripts
13:08:59 <dmontalvo> Trevor: I put out a CFR for one of my PRs, talked to Wilco about a different PR on ARIA, submitted the paper for Accessibility Testing Symposium
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13:10:54 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
13:10:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Nov 1 meeting canceled -- taken up [from kathy]
13:11:22 <dmontalvo> Kathy: 2 November meeting is canceled
13:11:31 <thbrunet> present+
13:12:34 <dmontalvo> Helen: What's the schedule for November and December?
13:12:44 <dmontalvo> KAthy: Probably Thanksgiven and Christmas
13:13:19 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next item
13:13:19 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- CFCs from this week -- taken up [from kathy]
13:13:53 <dmontalvo> Kathy: Wilco sent CFCs and it came out on a Tuesday
13:14:04 <dmontalvo> ... Please check out all these three rules that are ready for approval
13:15:21 <dmontalvo> ... That does not specify the date, let's put a week
13:15:59 <dmontalvo> ... First two rules are to be approved by AGWG, third one by ARIA
13:16:02 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
13:16:02 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Defining implementations -- taken up [from kathy]
13:16:16 <kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/541
13:16:38 <dmontalvo> Kathy: Please take a look at this, this defines implementations in the Rules Format
13:17:39 <dmontalvo> ... We talked about it during TPAC
13:18:24 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
13:18:24 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Secondary requirements explanations -- taken up [from kathy]
13:18:43 <kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/pull/542/files
13:19:24 <dmontalvo> Kathy: In the first drafts we had the explanation added somewhere else, like in the background. What it does is it removes the explanations and puts it where the actual scenarios are listed
13:19:57 <dmontalvo> ... That should not be too much, but the explanation is still required
13:20:21 <dmontalvo> Helen: Theory is good, but the implementation is problematic for me
13:21:09 <dmontalvo> Kathy: The different scenarios that are included in the secondary requirements section might help. We've gone donw from four to three, as one of them was coveredin the other examples
13:21:36 <dmontalvo> Helen: Is it just for the AAA where people maybe required to test AAA?
13:21:52 <dmontalvo> ... Technically every rule can fail on a secondary level if you get very much into the detail
13:23:07 <dmontalvo> Kathy: Without these secondary requirements some implementations were not consisten, as they had results related to an SC that was not listed in the rule
13:23:51 <dmontalvo> ... We decided that it was correct for an implementation to show that they were failing one WCAG SC as there are  test cases that have outcomes for these SC
13:24:27 <dmontalvo> ... We did not want to penalize these implementation
13:24:34 <dmontalvo> ... 3 scenarios
13:24:51 <dmontalvo> ... 1 The secodary requirement is stricter, for example in contrast ratios
13:26:50 <dmontalvo> ... Scenario 2 is the opposite of that, the rule is stricter as the secondary requirement
13:28:00 <dmontalvo> ... Scenario 3 is when an entirely different SC may have an outcome. For example, the rule is developed to test links but some test cases have image links, where 1.1.1 may be involved
13:28:16 <dmontalvo> s/may be involved/may be involved as a secondary requirement/
13:29:06 <dmontalvo> Helen: So secondary is where some test cases may fail them as well as the conformance requirement
13:29:49 <dmontalvo> Kathy: If you have suggestions  to improve the explanations please make comments
13:30:04 <dmontalvo> Helen: It's difficult when there is too much text
13:30:22 <dmontalvo> Helen: Are we being particularly verbose for a reason?
13:30:54 <dmontalvo> ... We should try to use more simple language
13:32:20 <dmontalvo> Daniel: I'll add you as a reviewer
13:33:32 <dmontalvo> Daniel: Sometimes language needs to be complicated because it's a technical realm
13:34:13 <dmontalvo> Helen: There are also other audiences for these rules, incluing manual testers who may not be that technical and still would benefit from these rules
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13:35:15 <dmontalvo> Kathy: Sometimes we have some plain languge specialists that want to change the word but then that also changes the meaning
13:35:31 <dmontalvo> Helen: We have to have the same levels in the same rule
13:36:10 <dmontalvo> ... Difficult to make that balance
13:36:24 <dmontalvo> zakim, take up next
13:36:24 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Update background in the rules format -- taken up [from kathy]
13:36:47 <dmontalvo> Kathy: We discussed this during TPAC
13:36:50 <kathy> https://github.com/w3c/wcag-act/issues/545
13:37:09 <dmontalvo> ... Have not completed it, I'll have it done for next week hopefully
13:37:42 <dmontalvo> ... Now background becomes a required section and other sections are put into that
13:38:16 <dmontalvo> ... One thing we discussed is a rename for Changelog. I need to make those changes
13:38:47 <dmontalvo> ... I think Wilco mentioned that he wanted to include the implementation section in it
13:39:19 <dmontalvo> rrsagent, draft minutes
13:39:20 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-wcag-act-minutes.html dmontalvo
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