W3C

RDF-star WG biweekly short meeting

19 October 2023

Attendees

Present
AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, fsasaki, gkellogg_, gtw, ktk, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, rubensworks, TallTed, tl, Tpt
Regrets
-
Chair
ora
Scribe
rubensworks

Meeting minutes

fsasaki: Joining from SAP (?)

ora: This is an administrative meeting, like every other week. The other longer meetings are for getting actual work done.

<ktk> Zazkim, next item

ora: I heard last meeting was productive.

Scribe: Taelman, Ruben (alternate: Thibodeau, Ted)

Approval of minutes from the last two weeks:

niklasl: It was a good discussion. We need to talk about the charter in the next meeting. There are many conceptual convergences already.

ktk: After TPAC, we decided to have longer meetings every 2 weeks to go more in-depth on tech details. The shorter meeting is more focused on admin.

fsasaki: Same timeslot?

ktk: It starts one hour earlier.

ktk: Timezone change is coming up. For EU, it will be one hour later.

ora: In US, we don't change at the same time.

<pchampin> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/rdf-star/calendar

TallTed: Don't do it in your head, use the calendar.

<pchampin> there is the W3C calendar for the WG (link above) - there is a link to an ICS feed that you can subscribe to in your favourite calendar app

<TallTed> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/05-rdf-star-minutes.html

<pfps> two-weeks-ago minutes look fine to me.

<ora> PROPOSAL: approve minutes of October 5

<ktk> +1

<pchampin> +1

<pfps> +1

<gkellogg_> +1

<niklasl> +1

<TallTed> +0 (absent)

<AZ> +1

<ora> +1

+1

<Dominik_T> +0 (absent)

<AndyS> +1

<doerthe> +1

<tl> +0 (absent)

<olaf> +1

RESOLUTION: approve minutes of October 5

<ktk> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/12-rdf-star-minutes.html

<ora> PROPOSAL: approve minutes of October 12

<gkellogg_> +1

<olaf> +1

<ktk> +1

<Dominik_T> +1

<pfps> last week's minutes need a topic

<pfps> -0

<ora> +0 (absent)

<tl> +1

<AndyS> +1

<niklasl> +1

<pchampin> +0.5 agree with pfps, will add it

<doerthe> +1

<Tpt> +1

<TallTed> +1

<AZ> +1

<pfps> +1 with the added topic

+1

RESOLUTION: approve minutes of October 12

Proposal for next week's discussion

tl: I sent a mail today which I would like to discuss next week.

AndyS: Not related to the topic, but I would like to discuss how we will get to actual actions.
… We have many different proposals, which will take a very long time to get through.

<pchampin> +1 to try and turn these discussions into actions

niklasl: I agree with AndyS, but I also think that tl's proposal is interesting to be discussed.
… We should only have one topic per meeting, but I wonder if we should have 2.
… There are use cases, testing them, and un-starring (can what we do also work in rdf 1.1 environment).

gkellogg_: I think PA tried to have a strawpoll on if the group wants to pursue graphs as a basis instead of triples.
… It would be useful if our work now includes graphs. Either based on something existing, or something new.

TallTed: We have multiple tracks going at the same time.
… 1) Fixing errata and making all docs look like each other, and 2) figuring out how to handle quoted/asserted statements.
… Regarding 2, we could compare them in a tabular form.
… There is a lot of convergence between the proposals.

tl: Our proposal is new, but inherits from rdf-star and the other proposals. I would be happy if we could discuss it. Use cases are on my todo-list.

niklasl: Ted alluded to if we are on board with graphs. I myself am.
… But Peter said that we may be moving beyond use cases like Wikidata and LPGs.
… Also: we should not say singleton property graph, but singleton graph edge.
… What worries me is the aspect of unasserted triples. I am trying to clarify this.

ora: I think graph-vs-triple discussion is something we need to continue.

<niklasl> +1 for spreadhseet comparison

ora: I like the idea of a spreadsheet for comparison.

ora: Not sure if we decided how to pick the tech discussion topic.

ktk: We as chairs decide.

Review of open actions, available at

<ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3

pchampin: I marked 2 actions as complete: w3c/rdf-star-wg#77 and w3c/rdf-star-wg#94.

Review of pull requests, available at

<ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4

gkellogg_: The update to n-quads is marked substantive, but I don't think it's controversial. Similar Turtle and TriG changes are incoming.
… I will merge them later.
… There is a test for C14N in tests repo. We need more, but we need more than one reviewer.

<Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to ask whether this actually changes the set of valid N-Quads documents?

<Zakim> pfps, you wanted to talk about new entailment rule

pfps: I found a bug in informative entailment rules. Could anyone who understands these rules review the PR?
… Reason for the bug is that RDF entailment includes 2 datatypes, and that change was not reflected.

<ktk> w3c/rdf-semantics#45

<pchampin> xsd:string and rdf:langString

ora: Any volunteers?

<pchampin> I volunteer

<AZ> I can review this

<doerthe> I will also have a look, if still needed

<ora> Thanks AZ and doerthe

<ktk> and pchampin :)

pfps: The changes are quite minimal.

<pfps> The first change is in Section 8.1.1

<gkellogg_> w3c/rdf-concepts#67

gkellogg_: There is a WIP PR on implications of graph terms.

<olaf> w3c/rdf-concepts#67

Issue Triage, available at

ora: I urge people to have a look at that.

<ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5

TallTed: The project dashboard lacks some columns, like creation date.

gkellogg_: This has been a requested feature on GH for a while now.

TallTed: Project dashboards are useless without this feature.

<gkellogg_> forem/forem#1837

<gb> CLOSED Issue 1837 Sort Dashboard by Publish date where available (by wuz) [external contributors welcome]

AndyS: Have you looked at project boards in GitHub?

<pchampin> see also https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/8518

pchampin: There is a link to filtering by date.

Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting

ora: Next Friday I will give a talk about our OneGraph project at the LDBC ... working group.
… It was suggested that we open that meeting to the members of the RDF-star WG.
… I don't have joining instructions yet.
… It's at 10 AM ET
… On Friday the 27th.

gkellogg_: November 5th is US daylight-savings time switching.

AndyS: Europe is 1 week earlier.

ora: AOB?

ora: I will share my slides.

Summary of resolutions

  1. approve minutes of October 5
  2. approve minutes of October 12
Minutes manually created (not a transcript), formatted by scribe.perl version 222 (Sat Jul 22 21:57:07 2023 UTC).

Diagnostics

Succeeded: s/RRSAgent make minutes public//

Succeeded: s/conversions/convergences/

Succeeded: s/Zazkim, close agendum 1//

Succeeded: s/Zazkim, next item//

Succeeded: s/un-staring/un-starring/

Warning: ‘s/as complete./as complete: w3c/rdf-star-wg#77 and w3c/rdf-star-wg#94.’ interpreted as replacing ‘as complete.’ by ‘as complete: w3c/rdf-star-wg#77 and w3c/rdf-star-wg#94.’

Succeeded: s/as complete./as complete: w3c/rdf-star-wg#77 and w3c/rdf-star-wg#94.

Succeeded: s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)|

Succeeded: s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)|

Succeeded 2 times: s|gb, issues on||g

Succeeded 2 times: s|gb, issues off||g

No scribenick or scribe found. Guessed: rubensworks

All speakers: AndyS, fsasaki, gkellogg_, ktk, niklasl, ora, pchampin, pfps, TallTed, tl

Active on IRC: AndyS, AZ, doerthe, Dominik_T, fsasaki, gkellogg_, gtw, ktk, niklasl, olaf, ora, pchampin, pfps, rubensworks, TallTed, tl, Tpt