15:57:43 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #rdf-star
15:57:47 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-irc
15:57:49 <ktk> meeting: RDF-star Working Group Weekly Meeting
15:57:58 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
15:57:59 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
15:58:24 <ktk> Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d45f4f0d-141c-440d-8fec-ef5842345ca2/20231019T120000/
15:58:25 <agendabot> clear agenda
15:58:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Scribe: Taelman, Ruben (alternate: Thibodeau, Ted)
15:58:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Approval of minutes from the last two weeks: [1]
15:58:25 <agendabot> agenda+ Proposal for next week's discussion
15:58:26 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of open actions, available at [2]
15:58:28 <agendabot> agenda+ Review of pull requests, available at [3]
15:58:31 <agendabot> agenda+ Issue Triage, available at [4]
15:58:33 <agendabot> agenda+ Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting
15:59:31 <pfps> pfps has joined #rdf-star
15:59:43 <ktk> RRSAgent, make minutes public
15:59:43 <RRSAgent> I'm logging. I don't understand 'make minutes public', ktk.  Try /msg RRSAgent help
15:59:50 <ktk> RRSAgent make minutes public
15:59:56 <AndyS> present+
15:59:59 <pfps> present+
16:00:00 <TallTed> TallTed has changed the topic to: RDF-star — 2023-10-19 Agenda: https://www.w3.org/events/meetings/d45f4f0d-141c-440d-8fec-ef5842345ca2/20231019T120000/
16:00:02 <TallTed> RRSAgent, make logs public
16:00:08 <TallTed> present+
16:00:16 <niklasl> niklasl has joined #rdf-star
16:00:16 <gkellogg_> present+
16:00:20 <fsasaki> present+
16:00:22 <niklasl> present+
16:00:27 <rubensworks> present+
16:00:27 <tl> present+
16:00:33 <pchampin> previous meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/10/12-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:00:50 <ora> ora has joined #rdf-star
16:00:54 <AZ> AZ has joined #rdf-star
16:00:54 <pchampin> next meeting: https://www.w3.org/2023/10/26-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:01:04 <AZ> present+
16:01:16 <rubensworks> scribe+
16:01:18 <pchampin> present+
16:01:27 <ora> present+
16:01:36 <ktk> present+
16:01:39 <ora> chair+
16:01:51 <olaf> olaf has joined #rdf-star
16:02:13 <rubensworks> fsasaki: Joining from SAP (?)
16:02:15 <Dominik_T> Dominik_T has joined #rdf-star
16:02:19 <olaf> present+
16:02:24 <Dominik_T> present+
16:03:02 <Tpt> present+
16:03:27 <doerthe> doerthe has joined #rdf-star
16:03:27 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:03:28 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:03:36 <doerthe> present+
16:03:42 <rubensworks> ora: This is an administrative meeting, like every other week. The other longer meetings are for getting actual work done.
16:03:44 <ktk> Zazkim, next item
16:03:51 <rubensworks> ... I heard last meeting was productive.
16:03:52 <TallTed> s/RRSAgent make minutes public//
16:03:57 <ora> Zakim, next item
16:03:57 <Zakim> agendum 1 -- Scribe: Taelman, Ruben (alternate: Thibodeau, Ted) -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:04:14 <ktk> Zazkim, close agendum 1
16:04:14 <ktk> Zazkim, next item
16:04:40 <ora> Zakim, close agendum 1
16:04:40 <Zakim> agendum 1, Scribe: Taelman, Ruben (alternate: Thibodeau, Ted), closed
16:04:41 <Zakim> I see 6 items remaining on the agenda; the next one is
16:04:41 <Zakim> 2. Approval of minutes from the last two weeks: [from 1 via agendabot]
16:04:54 <ora> zakim, next item
16:04:54 <Zakim> agendum 2 -- Approval of minutes from the last two weeks: -- taken up [from 1]
16:04:56 <rubensworks> niklasl: It was a good discussion. We need to talk about the charter in the next meeting. There are many conceptual conversions already.
16:05:56 <TallTed> s/conversions/convergences/
16:06:17 <rubensworks> ktk: After TPAC, we decided to have longer meetings every 2 weeks to go more in-depth on tech details. The shorter meeting is more focused on admin.
16:06:29 <rubensworks> fsasaki: Same timeslot?
16:06:35 <rubensworks> ktk: It starts one hour earlier.
16:06:59 <rubensworks> ktk: Timezone change is coming up. For EU, it will be one hour later.
16:07:06 <rubensworks> ora: In US, we don't change at the same time.
16:07:09 <pchampin> https://www.w3.org/groups/wg/rdf-star/calendar
16:07:53 <rubensworks> TallTed: Don't do it in your head, use the calendar.
16:08:36 <pchampin> there is the W3C calendar for the WG (link above) - there is a link to an ICS feed that you can subscribe to in your favourite calendar app
16:08:36 <draggett> draggett has joined #rdf-star
16:09:09 <TallTed> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/05-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:09:16 <pfps> two-weeks-ago minutes look fine to me.
16:09:37 <ora> PROPOSAL: approve minutes of October 5
16:09:39 <ktk> +1
16:09:42 <pchampin> +1
16:09:47 <pfps> +1
16:09:47 <gkellogg_> +1
16:09:47 <niklasl> +1
16:09:48 <TallTed> +0 (absent)
16:09:48 <AZ> +1
16:09:49 <ora> +1
16:09:51 <rubensworks> +1
16:09:54 <Dominik_T> +0 (absent)
16:09:54 <AndyS> +1
16:09:59 <doerthe> +1
16:10:04 <tl> +0 (absent)
16:10:06 <olaf> +1
16:10:18 <ora> RESOLVED: approve minutes of October 5
16:10:38 <ktk> https://www.w3.org/2023/10/12-rdf-star-minutes.html
16:10:46 <ora> PROPOSAL: approve minutes of October 12
16:10:51 <gkellogg_> +1
16:10:52 <olaf> +1
16:10:53 <ktk> +1
16:10:53 <Dominik_T> +1
16:10:53 <pfps> last week's minutes need a topic
16:10:55 <pfps> -0
16:10:56 <ora> +0 (absent)
16:10:57 <tl> +1
16:11:25 <AndyS> +1
16:11:28 <niklasl> +1
16:11:29 <pchampin> +0.5 agree with pfps, will add it
16:11:37 <doerthe> +1
16:11:43 <Tpt> +1
16:11:46 <TallTed> +1
16:11:57 <AZ> +1
16:12:05 <pfps> +1 with the added topic
16:12:07 <rubensworks> +1
16:13:14 <ora> RESOLVED: approve minutes of October 12
16:13:25 <ora> Zakim, next item
16:13:25 <Zakim> agendum 3 -- Proposal for next week's discussion -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:13:35 <TallTed> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:13:37 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html TallTed
16:13:58 <AndyS> q+
16:14:02 <rubensworks> tl: I sent a mail today which I would like to discuss next week.
16:14:03 <TallTed> s/Zazkim, close agendum 1//
16:14:07 <ora> ack AndyS
16:14:10 <TallTed> s/Zazkim, next item//
16:14:36 <rubensworks> AndyS: Not related to the topic, but I would like to discuss how we will get to actual actions.
16:14:49 <niklasl> q+
16:14:57 <rubensworks> ... We have many different proposals, which will take a very long time to get through.
16:14:59 <gkellogg_> q+
16:15:04 <ora> ack niklasl
16:15:07 <pchampin> +1 to try and turn these discussions into actions
16:15:39 <rubensworks> niklasl: I agree with AndyS, but I also think that tl's proposal is interesting to be discussed.
16:15:43 <gtw> present+
16:15:58 <rubensworks> ... We should only have one topic per meeting, but I wonder if we should have 2.
16:16:26 <TallTed> q+
16:16:37 <rubensworks> ... There are use cases, testing them, and un-staring (can what we do also work in rdf 1.1 environment).
16:16:49 <TallTed> s/un-staring/un-starring/
16:16:54 <ora> ack gkellogg_
16:17:03 <AndyS> q?
16:17:33 <rubensworks> gkellogg_: I think PA tried to have a strawpoll on if the group wants to pursue graphs as a basis instead of triples.
16:18:17 <tl> q+
16:18:44 <ora> ack TallTed
16:18:46 <rubensworks> ... It would be useful if our work now includes graphs. Either based on something existing, or something new.
16:18:46 <niklasl> q+
16:18:58 <rubensworks> TallTed: We have multiple tracks going at the same time.
16:19:28 <rubensworks> ... 1) Fixing errata and making all docs look like each other, and 2) figuring out how to handle quoted/asserted statements.
16:19:54 <rubensworks> ... Regarding 2, we could compare them in a tabular form.
16:20:19 <rubensworks> ... There is a lot of convergence between the proposals.
16:20:55 <ora> ack tl
16:21:42 <rubensworks> tl: Our proposal is new, but inherits from rdf-star and the other proposals. I would be happy if we could discuss it. Use cases are on my todo-list.
16:21:50 <ora> ack niklasl
16:22:13 <rubensworks> niklasl: Ted alluded to if we are on board with graphs. I myself am.
16:22:40 <rubensworks> ... But Peter said that we may be moving beyond use cases like Wikidata and LPGs.
16:23:10 <rubensworks> ... Also: we should not say singleton property graph, but singleton graph edge.
16:24:41 <pchampin> q+
16:24:54 <rubensworks> ... What worries me is the aspect of unasserted triples. I am trying to clarify this.
16:25:03 <ora> ack pchampin
16:25:51 <rubensworks> ora: I think graph-vs-triple discussion is something we need to continue.
16:26:03 <niklasl> +1 for spreadhseet comparison
16:26:04 <rubensworks> ... I like the idea of a spreadsheet for comparison.
16:26:23 <AndyS> q+
16:26:30 <AndyS> q-
16:26:33 <ora> ack AndyS
16:27:31 <rubensworks> ora: Not sure if we decided how to pick the tech discussion topic.
16:27:36 <rubensworks> ktk: We as chairs decide.
16:28:09 <ora> Zakim, next item
16:28:09 <Zakim> agendum 4 -- Review of open actions, available at -- taken up [from 2]
16:28:24 <ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/3
16:30:13 <rubensworks> pchampin: I marked 2 actions as complete.
16:31:10 <ora> Zakim, next item
16:31:10 <Zakim> agendum 5 -- Review of pull requests, available at -- taken up [from 3]
16:31:26 <gkellogg_> q+
16:31:27 <ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/4
16:31:34 <ora> ack gkellogg_
16:32:13 <rubensworks> gkellogg_: The update to n-quads is marked substantive, but I don't think it's controversial. Similar Turtle and TriG changes are incoming.
16:32:19 <pchampin> q+ to ask whether this actually changes the set of valid N-Quads documents?
16:32:22 <rubensworks> ... I will merge them later.
16:32:44 <rubensworks> ... There is a test for C14N in tests repo. We need more, but we need more than one reviewer.
16:32:51 <pfps> q+ to talk about new entailment rule
16:33:30 <ora> ack pchampin
16:33:30 <Zakim> pchampin, you wanted to ask whether this actually changes the set of valid N-Quads documents?
16:33:58 <ora> ack pfps
16:33:58 <Zakim> pfps, you wanted to talk about new entailment rule
16:34:27 <rubensworks> pfps: I found a bug in informative entailment rules. Could anyone who understands these rules review the PR?
16:35:01 <rubensworks> ... Reason for the bug is that RDF entailment includes 2 datatypes, and that change was not reflected.
16:35:03 <ktk> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-semantics/pull/45
16:35:15 <pchampin> xsd:string and rdf:langString
16:36:15 <rubensworks> ora: Any volunteers?
16:36:16 <pchampin> I volunteer
16:36:20 <AZ> I can review this
16:36:39 <doerthe> I will also have a look, if still needed
16:36:53 <ora> Thanks AZ and doerthe
16:37:02 <ktk> and pchampin :)
16:37:07 <rubensworks> pfps: The changes are quite minimal.
16:37:42 <pfps> The first change is in Section 8.1.1
16:38:07 <ktk> RRSAgent, draft minutes
16:38:08 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html ktk
16:38:35 <gkellogg_> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/67
16:38:45 <rubensworks> gkellogg_: There is a WIP PR on implications of graph terms.
16:38:59 <olaf> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-concepts/pull/67
16:39:16 <ora> Zakim, next item
16:39:16 <Zakim> agendum 6 -- Issue Triage, available at -- taken up [from 4]
16:39:17 <rubensworks> ora: I urge people to have a look at that.
16:39:28 <ktk> https://github.com/orgs/w3c/projects/20/views/5
16:39:45 <TallTed> q+
16:39:55 <ora> ack TallTed
16:40:30 <rubensworks> TallTed: The project dashboard lacks some columns, like creation date.
16:41:07 <rubensworks> gkellogg_: This has been a requested feature on GH for a while now.
16:41:24 <AndyS> q+
16:41:29 <rubensworks> TallTed: Project dashboards are useless without this feature.
16:42:06 <gkellogg_> https://github.com/forem/forem/issues/1837
16:42:06 <gb> https://github.com/forem/forem/issues/1837 -> CLOSED Issue 1837 Sort Dashboard by Publish date where available (by wuz) [external contributors welcome]
16:42:15 <ora> ack AndyS
16:42:58 <rubensworks> AndyS: Have you looked at project boards in GitHub?
16:44:38 <pchampin> see also https://github.com/orgs/community/discussions/8518
16:45:05 <pchampin> q+
16:45:17 <ktk> ack pchampin
16:45:37 <rubensworks> pchampin: There is a link to filtering by date.
16:47:22 <ktk> Zakim, next item
16:47:22 <Zakim> agendum 7 -- Any Other Business (AOB), time permitting -- taken up [from agendabot]
16:47:37 <rubensworks> ora: Next Friday I will give a talk about our OneGraph project at the LDBC ... working group.
16:47:51 <rubensworks> ... It was suggested that we open that meeting to the members of the RDF-star WG.
16:48:52 <rubensworks> ... I don't have joining instructions yet.
16:48:57 <rubensworks> ... It's at 10 AM ET
16:49:06 <rubensworks> ... On Friday the 27th.
16:49:51 <rubensworks> gkellogg_: November 5th is US daylight-savings time switching.
16:49:57 <rubensworks> AndyS: Europe is 1 week earlier.
16:50:06 <rubensworks> ora: AOB?
16:51:02 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)
16:51:12 <rubensworks> ora: I will share my slides.
16:52:05 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:52:06 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:52:42 <olaf> olaf has left #rdf-star
16:54:17 <pchampin> gb, issues off
16:54:17 <gb> pchampin, OK.
16:54:19 <pchampin> s/as complete./as complete: w3c/rdf-star-wg#77 and w3c/rdf-star-wg#94.
16:54:24 <pchampin> gb, issues on
16:54:24 <gb> pchampin, OK.
16:54:29 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:54:31 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:54:59 <pfps> pfps has left #rdf-star
16:57:13 <pchampin> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)|
16:57:13 <gb> https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)
16:57:25 <pchampin> gb, issues off
16:57:26 <gb> pchampin, OK.
16:57:28 <pchampin> s|https://github.com/w3c/rdf-star-wg/issues/15 -> Action 15 [closed] test ghurlbot for the last time (?) (on pchampin)|
16:57:31 <pchampin> gb, issues on
16:57:31 <gb> pchampin, OK.
16:57:38 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:57:40 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
16:58:04 <pchampin> s|gb, issues on||g
16:58:07 <pchampin> s|gb, issues off||g
16:58:09 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
16:58:10 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin
17:40:01 <pchampin> meeting: RDF-star WG biweekly short meeting
17:40:03 <pchampin> RRSAgent, make minutes
17:40:04 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/19-rdf-star-minutes.html pchampin