17:57:35 RRSAgent has joined #aria-apg 17:57:39 logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-aria-apg-irc 17:57:39 RRSAgent, make logs Public 17:57:40 please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), Matt_King 17:57:58 MEETING: ARIA Authoring Practices Task Force 17:58:07 CAIR: Jemma 17:58:17 CHAIR: Jemma 17:58:21 present+ 17:58:26 rrsagent, make minutes 17:58:28 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Matt_King 17:59:57 arigilmore has joined #aria-apg 17:59:59 jugglinmike has joined #aria-apg 18:01:37 Jem has joined #aria-apg 18:01:41 howard-e has joined #aria-apg 18:01:47 present+ 18:01:55 present+ 18:02:00 rrsagent, make minutes 18:02:01 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 18:02:17 present+ jugglinmike 18:02:25 present_ 18:02:28 present+ 18:02:36 scribe+ jugglinmike 18:02:40 present+ Ariellagilmore 18:03:10 regret+ Curt 18:03:18 regret+ jongund 18:03:41 rrsagent, make minutes 18:03:42 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Jem 18:04:02 present+ Andrea_Cardona 18:04:24 present+ dmontalvo 18:04:27 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/wiki/October-3%2C-2023-Agenda 18:04:48 present+ Daniel 18:04:50 Jem: Our next meeting is Tuesday, October 10 18:05:35 Topic: Status of Site Updates 18:05:47 Jem: I saw that Shawn published the changes this morning 18:05:58 Matt_King: All 7 of the items in this list on the agenda were published 18:06:03 Matt_King: Some awesome steps forward here 18:06:19 Matt_King: I haven't done anything yet to validate that things are good in production 18:07:09 Matt_King: I'd appreciate if anyone could volunteer to make sure all these things are present, but I will eventually get to it if no one else does 18:07:22 Jem: I'm pretty tied up this week, but I can try on Sunday night 18:07:35 dmontalvo: I'll take a look as well 18:08:09 Matt_King: Thanks! There's one in particular that I'd like you to look at because it's totally visual--the combobox CSS fix 18:08:19 Matt_King: That's it for site updates. Thank you to everyone for all the help! 18:08:43 Topic: PR 2775: Feed example changes 18:08:50 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/pull/2775 18:09:30 Matt_King: As we've been reviewing this pull request, we've run into some problems with making the iframe work 18:10:12 Matt_King: howard-e merged a change by jugglinmike in WAI-ARIA Practices. I wasn't clear about what that was doing 18:13:43 jugglinmike: My fix addresses the problem on my machine, and howard-e verified it, as well. Unfortunately, it appears to have had no effect on the preview system. 18:14:51 jugglinmike: I haven't been able to identify why this is the case, yet. Alex_Flenniken will likely be taking a look in the coming months 18:15:18 siri has joined #aria-apg 18:15:19 Matt_King: Thanks. Let's assume that technical problem is solvable. There's another aspect I'd like to discuss 18:15:58 Matt_King: Aaron Leventhal has reported that putting examples inside iframes makes it much easier to direct people to them 18:16:21 Matt_King: I began wondering if this is a pattern we could replicate across the APG--placing all examples within the iframe 18:16:52 Jem: Was Aaron's request sent to you via e-mail or on GitHub? 18:17:57 Matt_King: Via GitHub--issue #2386 https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2386 18:18:36 howard-e: I like that proposal 18:18:57 howard-e: There's an opportunity for ARIA-AT to use the more bare-bones versions of the example pages 18:19:14 howard-e: I worry about how tests may have to be changed to account for this, but right now, I do like the thought 18:19:38 q+ James 18:19:41 Matt_King: If arigilmore was into us turning her project into a big old experiment, we could try it with this PR 18:21:06 James: Couldn't we host the examples as standalone documents and also build them directly into the pages where they are currently rendered? 18:21:34 Matt_King: So in the ARIA-Practices, we would continue to do things just like we do today? 18:21:56 James: I guess you could do it that way, but I was expecting to do define them as standalone documents and then build them in 18:22:26 Matt_King: To solve 2386, we could write some code that extracts and duplicate that content during the build process 18:23:27 ack james 18:27:40 jugglinmike: There may be some examples where an iframe is less appropriate. Dialog for instance 18:29:44 jugglinmike: But in general, I like the idea of pursing the iframe route (rather than generating a separate document by extracting the example source) because it increases parity between how people experience the examples in either context 18:30:34 jugglinmike: As those experiences diverge, I worry about differences which result from our build process 18:31:23 Matt_King: If this works, though, then eventually, we might put iframes on every example page 18:31:48 Matt_King: Once we figured out a pattern, it probably wouldn't be that large of a project to move in that direction 18:37:40 [discussion about how such an iframe would work generally for APG examples] 18:41:43 jugglinmike: We also have to consider how we manage the examples' controls. For arigilmore patch, we intentionally placed the controls outside of the iframe, but it's not clear if/how we should include them for folks who access the iframe content directly 18:41:53 Topic: Potential combobox value bug? 18:42:03 link: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/2813 18:43:42 Matt_King: I could use some help verifying this because it was reported with a screenshot 18:43:51 Matt_King: I can't tell which example it concerns 18:44:38 Jem: It looks like the Editable Combobox with Both List and Inline Autocomplete Example 18:44:38 Editable Combobox With Both List and Inline Autocomplete Example 18:44:45 Matt_King: Thanks; I'll add a link in the issue itself 18:45:55 Matt_King: What is the issue when they put in a number less than 10? 18:46:18 Jem: VoiceOver says the number followed by "s t a t e" 18:46:59 Matt_King: This sounds like it might be a screen reader bug, if it is a bug 18:47:31 Matt_King: I'm going to follow up with the reporter 18:47:38 Topic: PR 1611: Markup for keybord chords 18:48:02 Topic: PR 1611: Markup for keybord chords 18:48:11 github: PR 1611: Markup for keybord chords 18:48:20 Matt_King: I've put a table in the agenda that shows what Nick had proposed 18:49:36 Matt_King: Currently, when we write our keyboard commands, like in this table, we use the element to wrap entire chords 18:50:00 Matt_King: Nick recommends wrapping each key in its own element 18:50:30 Jem: Visually, Nick's suggestion looks more coherent 18:51:07 Andrea_Cardona: Is the current markup confusing? 18:51:20 Matt_King: I don't know if it's confusing anyone, but I don't know if it's technically correct 18:52:00 Jem: because, for instance, there is no "Control plus V" button. There is a "Control" button and a "V" button; the markup Nick recommends reflects that 18:52:18 Andrea_Cardona: Yeah, that makes sense to me 18:52:38 Topic: Issue 697 about aria-expanded=false on menu buttons 18:52:41 Matt_King: I can write a patch. It will modify a lot of files, so the trick for me is to figure out when to submit it 18:52:52 Topic: Issue 697 about aria-expanded=false on menu buttons 18:53:07 github: https://github.com/w3c/aria-practices/issues/697 18:53:44 s/a patch/a patch for issue gh-1611/ 18:54:08 Matt_King: People were so confused by this that they were suggesting a new property in gh-697 18:54:18 Matt_King: I have written a pull request which removes the recommendation 18:54:30 Matt_King: If we go that route, we will need to change three menu button examples 18:54:50 present+ Bryan_Garaventa 18:55:23 Bryan_Garaventa: we originally proposed this because on some devices (E.g. those based on touch), you cannot perceive menu hierarchy 18:55:31 Bryan_Garaventa: That leads me to two questions 18:55:52 Bryan_Garaventa: How do you identify hierarchy if you take it out? 18:56:11 Matt_King: Today, our menu buttons don't have "aria-expanded=false" when they are collapsed 18:56:22 Bryan_Garaventa: Oh, so this isn't about removing the attribute 18:56:43 Matt_King: No, so it's about applying it consistently 18:56:51 +1 18:57:11 Bryan_Garaventa: Ah! Yes, I would recommend consistency. Especially for those using touch screen devices 18:57:23 Matt_King: The clarity of knowing that it is collapsed is helpful 18:58:06 +1 to adding aria-expanded="false" when collapsed for clarity. 18:58:23 present+ siri 18:58:44 siri: I support this, as well 18:58:54 Matt_King: Sounds like we have a lot of votes here, all in favor! 18:59:09 Matt_King: There are three menu button examples that would need to change 18:59:16 Matt_King: I have already submitted a pull request for the pattern 18:59:35 Matt_King: I think this should be two separate pull requests. I think the code changes should be done in a separate pull request 19:06:26 jamesn has joined #aria-apg 19:20:54 Zakim, end the meeting 19:20:54 As of this point the attendees have been Matt_King, howard-e, Jem, jugglinmike, arigilmore, Ariellagilmore, Andrea_Cardona, dmontalvo, Daniel, Bryan_Garaventa, siri 19:20:57 RRSAgent, please draft minutes 19:20:58 I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/03-aria-apg-minutes.html Zakim 19:21:35 I am happy to have been of service, jugglinmike; please remember to excuse RRSAgent. Goodbye 19:21:35 Zakim has left #aria-apg 19:21:36 RRSAgent, leave 19:21:36 I see no action items