14:59:37 <RRSAgent> RRSAgent has joined #epub-fxl
14:59:41 <RRSAgent> logging to https://www.w3.org/2023/10/02-epub-fxl-irc
14:59:41 <Zakim> RRSAgent, make logs Public
15:00:14 <Zakim> please title this meeting ("meeting: ..."), wendyreid
15:00:14 <wendyreid> meeting: EPUB FXL Task Force Meeting
15:00:14 <wendyreid> date: 2023-10-02
15:00:14 <wendyreid> chair: wendyreid
15:03:39 <shadi> shadi has joined #epub-fxl
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15:06:25 <gpellegrino> present+
15:11:59 <Naomi> present+
15:12:05 <wendyreid> present+
15:12:11 <gpellegrino> scribe+
15:12:36 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/fxl-a11y/
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15:12:47 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: I moved the content of the note to the right repo
15:13:06 <gpellegrino> ... and this we'll be the document we'll work on from now on
15:13:09 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit#heading=h.4sb3bzctqshh
15:13:25 <gpellegrino> ... the Google Doc remains for the more experimental work
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15:15:19 <gpellegrino> ... in the short term we should make the note ready for publishing
15:15:49 <gpellegrino> ... as a guidance for publishers for European Accessibility Act implementation
15:16:12 <gpellegrino> ... I hope to have something ready for December
15:16:24 <gpellegrino> ... we added some sections for reading systems
15:17:00 <gpellegrino> ... I think there is some changes we should make
15:17:45 <gpellegrino> ... we should remove any citation to specific software
15:17:49 <gpellegrino> q+
15:17:53 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:18:26 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: Only one thing, last week Matt Garrish and I published a note on the exemption metadata for EAA, it required APA review
15:18:36 <ken_jones> q+
15:18:37 <wendyreid> ... when we reach a point with this document, we should ask for APA review as well
15:18:41 <wendyreid> scribe+
15:18:44 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: Agree
15:18:57 <wendyreid> ack ken_jones
15:19:17 <gpellegrino> ken_jones: I think the introduction should be done first
15:19:34 <gpellegrino> ... to really understand the goal of the document
15:20:17 <gpellegrino> ... we'll this be a code-tutorial?
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15:20:24 <gpellegrino> ... a guidance?
15:20:31 <gpellegrino> ... best practices?
15:21:00 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: I think in this document we should make best practices
15:21:43 <gpellegrino> ... for the technical part we may have another document (like techniques for EPUB Accessibility)
15:22:00 <gpellegrino> .. what do you think Shadi?
15:22:29 <gpellegrino> shadi: me, Cristina and Gregorio met and sent an email to the contact point in the European Commission
15:23:18 <gpellegrino> ... I think at the moment we need some high level document
15:23:23 <Naomi> q+
15:24:04 <gpellegrino> shadi: I think we should identify clearly what can be done and what not
15:24:05 <wendyreid> ack Naomi
15:25:06 <gpellegrino> q+
15:25:12 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:25:36 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: It's not an exemption, it's in the introduction, children's books, art books, should be made as accessible as possible
15:25:54 <wendyreid> Simon_PRH: Something could be as accessible as possible, but not to the standards of EAA
15:26:34 <gpellegrino> shadi: I think in the EAA we don't have this specific requirements
15:26:52 <gpellegrino> ... I think there is space to say what is achievable and what not
15:27:01 <ken_jones> present+
15:27:20 <gpellegrino> ... and then try to write it in a "law" form
15:27:47 <Sueneu> q+
15:27:57 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: yes, the requirements of the EAA are quite high, it doesn't say how to implement things
15:28:11 <wendyreid> ack Sueneu
15:28:31 <gpellegrino> Naomi: we may have a section explaining the known issues with this format
15:28:42 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/fxl-a11y/#intro-limits
15:28:59 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: yes, we have a section called "the limits"
15:30:32 <gpellegrino> ... maybe we can expand it
15:30:32 <ken_jones> q+
15:30:32 <wendyreid> ack ken_jones
15:30:33 <gpellegrino> ken_jones: we should speak about the limits in formatting the text
15:31:25 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/epub-a11y-eaa-mapping/
15:31:26 <gpellegrino> ... maybe also linking to WCAG requirements not achievable in FXL
15:31:56 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: yes, but we also have the mapping document where we can add these things
15:31:58 <gpellegrino> q+
15:32:02 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:32:25 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: In the structure of the document, there are a lot of things that are related to HTML fixed layout
15:32:35 <wendyreid> ... we know the specs allow things like SVG in spine
15:32:47 <wendyreid> ... maybe split the document, or duplicate things for both HMTL and SVG
15:33:08 <wendyreid> ... and mentioning that there are a lot of FXL with images in the spine, even though it's disallowed in EPUB
15:33:18 <wendyreid> ... there are a lot of EPUBs in this format in the world
15:36:20 <gpellegrino> Naomi: yes, this is why we split the IDPF a11y techniques
15:36:35 <gpellegrino> ... to not worry anyone
15:36:48 <Sueneu> q+
15:37:03 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: I think we should elevate this document to high level recomandations
15:37:09 <wendyreid> ack Sueneu
15:37:36 <ken_jones> q+
15:37:39 <gpellegrino> Sueneu: I agree, it also future proof this document
15:37:40 <wendyreid> ack ken_jones
15:38:34 <gpellegrino> ken_jones: A problem may be: we say that things can be done, but then authoring tools don't allow it
15:39:28 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: yes, this document may push authoring tools to improve
15:39:33 <gpellegrino> q+
15:39:52 <wendyreid> ack gpellegrino
15:39:58 <gpellegrino> ken_jones: then may be ok for publishers to wait for new tools?
15:40:14 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: I foresee that publishers may ask for the exemption for disproportionate burden
15:40:27 <wendyreid> ken_jones: Case by case?
15:40:32 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: Book by book
15:40:38 <wendyreid> ken_jones: Is there a time frame?
15:40:51 <wendyreid> gpellegrino: No, but it might be every 2 years or a similar period
15:41:15 <Sueneu> q+
15:41:18 <wendyreid> JonasLillqvist: In Finland, we have a 5 year time limit
15:41:21 <wendyreid> ack Sueneu
15:41:55 <Simon_PRH> q+
15:42:02 <wendyreid> ack Simon_PRH
15:42:21 <gpellegrino> Sueneu: I think that having a high level document help publishers to understand what can be done
15:42:46 <gpellegrino> Simon_PRH: I think that having this document makes sense in any case
15:42:55 <gpellegrino> ... both for suppliers and authoring tools
15:43:19 <ken_jones> q+
15:43:24 <wendyreid> ack ken_jones
15:44:01 <gpellegrino> ken_jones: this document we'll be split as well
15:44:31 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: yes, I think we can have the code in the Google Doc
15:44:51 <wendyreid> https://docs.google.com/document/d/1NUaO5gvboK23ssvj-j2bcJ_I8AQyN9wr1qcjzuQFXgg/edit
15:46:06 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: ok, I have a list of things to edit in the document
15:46:19 <gpellegrino> ... then I'll make a PR, so everyone can review it
15:47:41 <gpellegrino> wendyreid: if someone wants to read the whole document would be great
15:48:34 <wendyreid> https://w3c.github.io/epub-specs/epub33/fxl-a11y/
16:25:32 <wendyreid> zakim, end meeting
16:25:32 <Zakim> As of this point the attendees have been gpellegrino, Naomi, wendyreid, ken_jones
16:25:34 <Zakim> RRSAgent, please draft minutes
16:25:36 <RRSAgent> I have made the request to generate https://www.w3.org/2023/10/02-epub-fxl-minutes.html Zakim
16:25:43 <Zakim> I am happy to have been of service, wendyreid; please remember to excuse RRSAgent.  Goodbye
16:25:43 <Zakim> Zakim has left #epub-fxl